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Loss
by Ricki E. Bellos. 12/12/19 03:34 PM
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Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.
By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
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#1157384 - 10/06/19 10:46 PM
What has happened to JPF
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,167
Roy Cooper
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Top 100 Poster

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,167
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This will be the first time in over 10 years I have ever said a word against the way JPF has changed and is headed.
It used to be a caring community of music writers and lyric writers and except for the odd hiccup that is what it was.
It was a fun and caring place.
Now I see a topic that is totally political IMO and as I am from the UK, totally alien to me. And you get to date, 206,292 views and 83 comments.
Then just down the page you get our wonderful member Tammy asking for members to 'Send Glenda Caring Thoughts' as she is very ill and it gets 102 views and 4 caring messages. Glenda is a long time member of JPF and before she became ill was always there with kind thoughts and wishes.
Thank God for the Tammy's of the world, and those who sent a caring message for her.
I don't know about anyone else, but it really does sicken me.
Where has the heart gone, and where have the music topics gone.
I will probably get loads of flack for writing this, but it had to be said.
As this is just getting something off of my chest, I won't be answering any follow-on's added by other JPF members.
It will probably be hi-jacked anyways..lol
God Bless to all,
Roy
ps. It is Glynda Duncan who lots of us know...
She used to have little gatherings at her house for JPF members.
Last edited by Roy Cooper; 10/07/19 06:19 PM.
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#1157387 - 10/07/19 05:05 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
JAPOV
Top 500 Poster
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Top 500 Poster
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
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This is where I really get up on my soapbox so, just in case anyone is missing the point. Im sure Roy is absolutely right
pre-Political Correctness I have no doubt JPF was a great place for musicians to congregate socially and peacefully, swap licks and ideas, and enjoy a certain musical camaraderie without fear of judgment. In fact, thats what I personally miss about the 70s - 80s
back then, people were fearlessly trying to discover what the limits truly are. However, since everything under the sun has now become politicized, and in some cases even thought has become a matter of law, we are all now expected to accept and conform to broad based psycho-social norms rather than choose. This is what happens when you give government the power to dictate morality, you lose your freedom and voice as an individual. Now, anyone who doesnt conform or disagrees is a bigot
I prefer my freedom to live as I choose, and my common sense to respect everyone elses freedom to do the same.
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#1157393 - 10/07/19 08:56 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,313
Ray E. Strode
Top 30 Poster
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Top 30 Poster
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,313
Brunswick, Ga. USA
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Aw, so, Ok, it's back to music again. A great song like they don't record anymore you may want to check out THANK GOD AND GREYHOUND YOU'RE GONE by Roy Clark. Google it.
Ray E. Strode
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#1157396 - 10/07/19 10:18 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
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I enjoy the conversation, I dont even mind political conversation. We are no different than the billions of other onliners who like to shoot the breeze.
I think music is the common thread for us all here. I think MOST people here have hit their stride musically or songwriting wise. And they assume they wont get any worse, or wont get any better. Even the best songwriters usually get worse over time, those magical hits dont come around or stay around for long.
It's just nature. You can only write, and especially record so many songs, and if you post 3-4 in a row, you're probably done for a while. So what do you do in the meantime? You talk.
I wasnt a part of that old school "family" so to speak say 10 years ago, i came and went..by choice or not by choice... lol, but it seems the people lamenting the good ole days are guilty as well. Instead of complaining "Ahh Mike Dunbar is not here any more, or Sub is not here to teach us any more, why not make it that way again?
MAJPFGA Make JPF GREAT AGAIN! lol
But it's kind of hurtful to say that the new people are not as good as the old people.
Also, the critiques and reviews are pointless, because nobody is ever gonna say what they really think. And thats fair, nobody wants to hurt feelings, but, then it becomes a different kind of forum
it is what it is. If you want it to be about making friends and having a place to hang out, we got that. If you want it to be about music, make it about music.
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/07/19 10:46 AM.
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#1157398 - 10/07/19 11:27 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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This will be the first time in over 10 years I have ever said a word against the way JPF has changed and is headed.
It used to be a caring community of music writers and lyric writers and except for the odd hiccup that is what it was.
It was a fun and caring place.
Now I see a topic that is totally political IMO and as I am from the UK, totally alien to me. And you get to date, 206,292 views and 83 comments.
Then just down the page you get our wonderful member Tammy asking for members to 'Send Glenda Caring Thoughts' as she is very ill and it gets 102 views and 4 caring messages. Glenda is a long time member of JPF and before she became ill was always there with kind thoughts and wishes.
Thank God for the Tammy's of the world, and those who sent a caring message for her.
I don't know about anyone else, but it really does sicken me.
Where has the heart gone, and where have the music topics gone.
I will probably get loads of flack for writing this, but it had to be said.
As this is just getting something off of my chest, I won't be answering any follow-on's added by other JPF members.
It will probably be hi-jacked anyways..lol
God Bless to all,
Roy I agree with Roy 100% The place feels pretty toxic to me right now, and I can't imagine it will get any better with an election year coming up. I will probably join the legion of folks that used to reside here but now just rarely pop their head in anymore. Just for my own survival. Maybe it's me, I'm what's toxic and I'm projecting. Doesn't change the need for distance from this place. Y'all enjoy your politics. Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/07/19 11:30 AM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157400 - 10/07/19 11:56 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Michael Zaneski]
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 856
Gavin Sinclair
Top 500 Poster
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Top 500 Poster

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 856
Conover, North Carolina, USA
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This will be the first time in over 10 years I have ever said a word against the way JPF has changed and is headed.
It used to be a caring community of music writers and lyric writers and except for the odd hiccup that is what it was.
It was a fun and caring place.
Now I see a topic that is totally political IMO and as I am from the UK, totally alien to me. And you get to date, 206,292 views and 83 comments.
Then just down the page you get our wonderful member Tammy asking for members to 'Send Glenda Caring Thoughts' as she is very ill and it gets 102 views and 4 caring messages. Glenda is a long time member of JPF and before she became ill was always there with kind thoughts and wishes.
Thank God for the Tammy's of the world, and those who sent a caring message for her.
I don't know about anyone else, but it really does sicken me.
Where has the heart gone, and where have the music topics gone.
I will probably get loads of flack for writing this, but it had to be said.
As this is just getting something off of my chest, I won't be answering any follow-on's added by other JPF members.
It will probably be hi-jacked anyways..lol
God Bless to all,
Roy I agree with Roy 100% The place feels pretty toxic to me right now, and I can't imagine it will get any better with an election year coming up. I will probably join the legion of folks that used to reside here but now just rarely pop their head in anymore. Just for my own survival. Maybe it's me, I'm what's toxic and I'm projecting. Doesn't change the need for distance from this place. Y'all enjoy your politics. Mike Mike, I hope you won't stay away completely. I've kind of come to rely on your generous advice on the tracks I post. It's been an education for me. 
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#1157401 - 10/07/19 12:36 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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Thanks, Gavin, I appreciate that.  In an earlier post you said, "There is a lot of noise on the site, but that can be ignored." If that were entirely true, there would be no problem. For some (or maybe it's just me..) just knowing this "noise" is there (and getting noisier) is problematic. And it's more because it is a specific kind of noise. A noise composed, at times, of people lowering their masks and being monsters. Utterly drooling ugly sarcasm..dark dark things..The Bible used as a vehicle for venomous anger..The Id...The reptilian brain lashing out... Just knowing this is a house with a room like that..is problematic for me. I can be like Kyle MacLachlan's character in Blue Velvet and be drawn into that kind of darkness, but I get a feeling of being in a very dangerous place. SO then recoil. And try to stay away from that room, but know it's there...most of us are curious creatures.. It's also a little like the knowledge of the tortured child in a dark basement room in Ursula Le Guin's short story "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas." The citizens know that room is there and needs to be for there to be their Utopia..and perhaps we here need our various scapegoats as well.. Still some have to leave that Utopia..They lose the good that came with it, for sure..but maybe get to hold onto their sense of decency.. I struggle with these thoughts.. Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/07/19 12:50 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157402 - 10/07/19 01:05 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
JAPOV
Top 500 Poster
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Top 500 Poster
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 473
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Well... so much for the liberal, all inclusive, "Why cant we all just get along", self edifying, above it all utopian dream... Lol
You know what this place is truly lacking? The courage of its conviction to actually BE EQUAL and INCLUSIVE, and face equality for what it TRULY IS.
Disagreement should be expected AND RESPECTED! Be Yourself! I Will!
However, you're right to fear any political agenda that seeks to force equality down your throat!
Last edited by JAPOV; 10/07/19 01:28 PM.
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#1157405 - 10/07/19 02:00 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Mark Kaufman
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Top 40 Poster

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Minneapolis
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I feel like someone just opened my front door, shamed me for feeling what I don't feel, then slammed the door and yelled "I refuse to hear your response!" Ouch!  People get upset about a lot of things, but other people's thoughts and feelings usually tops the list. What one member sees as a shocking lack of caring and compassion, another sees as the typical behavior of an opposing political belief, while another considers it all fine and well, no issue at all. I think it only gets toxic when we call others out, as if with an expectation of bringing them into our own viewpoint through criticism or reprimand. That's not going to happen, ever, for anyone. The way I see it, you should go ahead and talk about anything you like, but don't be surprised if your opinion triggers or offends others, because it always does. Always. If what you want out of this place is arguments and triggered people complaining about toxicity, stick around in the General Forums and yak about who's to blame. But if you really want other people to feel what you feel, post a song. It works a lot better, and people can't argue back unless it's with a trombone, or something.
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#1157406 - 10/07/19 02:17 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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Good Grief!!! Drama everywhere I go! If Marc Allen Barnett is here as well then I will seriously just quit all this juvenile crap! WHERE ARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY AND ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN SONGWRITING AROUND HERE!?!? That was you talking a few months ago, Tony. You took me basically saying that a lack of civility in political discussions scares me away and turned it into a liberal vs. conservative thing? That to me is like..if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Same with John's last post. Where exactly does he say, "We should all just write gender neutral love songs for teenagers and leave politics to Hollywood..." That's you, Tony, not John. I too hate to see this place drift from it's main purpose..
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157413 - 10/07/19 03:38 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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There was some initial confusion with me as to whether it was Glenda or Glynda that had a stroke.
I didn't know a Glenda, so figured I would wait until it was more clear, but that never happened.
I've only been here since 2006 and so maybe Glenda was more active before my time..
Anyway, that's why I waited..I wanted to know specifically who I was addressing. Unfortunately, it's still not clear. Dave called her Glynda.. Many of us know Glynda...
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/08/19 07:31 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157416 - 10/07/19 03:46 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: JAPOV]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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Lol... From my perspective you and Marc actually have a lot in common Michael. You both agree that politics should stay out of the arena while denying that everything is politically motivated at the same time... Whats funny is that I responded to John out of respect! HE'S RIGHT! Do I deny that everything is politically motivated? Thanks for letting me know what I think. If you were responding to John out of respect, I am not sure he took it that way, with so much sarcasm in there. I sure did not. You have the freedom here to say just about anything you want, in any thread you want amd I am certainly not saying "don't be yourself." Just it gets scary for me when civil war, guns, how liberals are the enemy, etc..is either the insinuation or the topic. This is scary talk to me. It may become reality, but I may need to face that reality in my own time, in my own way. And so where's MY freedom of speech to express that without it being broken down into yet another political diatribe? Working on music takes enough out of me. To respond properly and with civility to political stuff is VERRRRRRRRRRRY time-consuming and draining for me.. I have to put food on the table. It really comes down to that...
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/07/19 03:48 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157417 - 10/07/19 03:56 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Mark Kaufman]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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I feel like someone just opened my front door, shamed me for feeling what I don't feel, then slammed the door and yelled "I refuse to hear your response!" Ouch!  I hear you, Mark. I was raised Catholic by an alcoholic turned religious fanatic and a mother who was a compulsive gambler (and I inherited those problems) so "shame" has been one of the main currencies that defined much of my emotional life for a long time, unfortunately, and I welcomed feeling shamed over this. Basically for letting my indecisiveness over "was it Glynda or Glenda" who had the stroke.." keep me from acting. The way I see it, you should go ahead and talk about anything you like, but don't be surprised if your opinion triggers or offends others, because it always does. Always. If what you want out of this place is arguments and triggered people complaining about toxicity, stick around in the General Forums and yak about who's to blame. .
I agree, Most issues are very complex. It's easy to find scapegoats.
But if you really want other people to feel what you feel, post a song. It works a lot better, and people can't argue back unless it's with a trombone, or something.
LOL...Trombone is my argumentative instrument of choice, especially paired with a reedier sound, like an oboe. Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/09/19 11:47 AM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157420 - 10/07/19 04:07 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: JAPOV]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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it gets scary for me when civil war, guns, how liberals are the enemy, etc..is either the insinuation or the topic. This is scary talk to me.
Add to that how the Bible gets interpreted (by some here) as to being FOR an all-out battle between liberals and conservatives..
THAT scares me. Look no deeper..
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/07/19 04:12 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157424 - 10/07/19 06:31 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,075
TamsNumber4
Top 100 Poster
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Top 100 Poster

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,075
New Hampshire
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When I joined here, I was welcomed in a wonderful community and made friends who really are the reason I have grown in music and I am so thankful and love each and every one for it and my heart doesn't forget very easily, and that is just the sentimental gal that I am. We can lament, but we must be good in our remembering...I remember threads that went on and on with folks arguing a viewpoint, I remember a few friends leaving this site because of their viewpoints and that was way back when....in the "Good Old Days"....YES, it is Glynda and I remember Friday nights in the chat with Glyn, Polly, Ben Willis, Night just having so much fun and laughing. I remember Stevie B. making fun of me because I was recording in the shower. I remember Wendy and myself laughing over both of us recording in the bathroom and trying to find a quiet moment away from our kids. I remember when Calvin had the song with the mushrooms and we were all giggling about what he was on when he made it LOL! I remember when Mark Kaufman posted a song that blew me away that even 'til this day I play it for people and proclaim it the best song and that it should have been famous because it is so ding dang good. I remember when I had no music and I just started here and Ben Willis offered to play a guitar track for a girl he knew nothing about who was really a fish out of water. I remember people who were very annoying, or posted too much, I remember lovely people and crying over someone like Tampa Stan who I never even met before. Brian has picked me up and given me a dose of wisdom and set me back on the path more times than I can say. I sat here and rocked my baby to sleep to John's beautiful piano music, you have all touched my life and I don't even know you, but you matter to me and there will always be turmoil and good and bad times, there always was.....but we are a family and we regroup and come back together, don't forget where you laid down some musical roots and come back to visit from time to time....you are my JPF family.
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#1157474 - 10/08/19 12:06 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
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Yeah, the fact that many dont know Glynda kind of describes the tensions by say the OP.
I remember Barry, poor guy, he wasnt treated with the same reverence, as some of the others, which is a niche kind of thing.
RIP BARRY
It's not... NOT... a good forum because people who were here sooner say its not.
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/08/19 12:07 PM.
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#1157536 - 10/09/19 10:25 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: John Lawrence Schick]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
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This website was created for music lovers - I'm pretty sure. I hate to see it drift from its main purpose which is music talk. There are enough political forums / sites. The rub is that songwriting includes many issues, including politics. So, it's a double-edged sword. Often the lyrical context becomes more of a political debate (priority), than the musical / songwriting evaluation (only secondary). As far as political discussions/ arguments, Ive never seen any resolve through debate. Both sides leave the discussion with their viewpoints unchanged. John  Yes, all songs regardless of the content have political vibes to them. Even a typical boy/girl song, the ole "I dont have money to buy you things...but, my love is true etc" That tells alot about where that person stands. He could be a victim of a bad economy, he could have struggling parents, and he longs to be part of this girls world, and the guys hes competing with have it better. And depending on when it's written, it could reflect whats happening in the world. Without mentioning anything about politics or the reasons for it happening, it tells whats happening. A love song during WW1 would tell more about those times more than a love song now. And Pete Seeger once said that all songs are protest songs. It's kind of true. Yakety Yak dont talk back, is a kid protesting how his parents run the house. There are plenty of ways to interject politics into a song, without ever mentioning it. But I think here, we have some hard core political people, who are probably more into politics than music.
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/09/19 10:33 AM.
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#1157537 - 10/09/19 10:29 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Marc Barnette]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
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Japov, yep I'm still around and if you want to leave that up to you.
Politics is in everything and that is the actual problem. It is EVERYWHERE and so it becomes just another incredibly boring place where all people do is yell at each other. Fine. That's part of the freedom of speech. But people also have the power to IGNORE anything they don't care about. And if you notice the dropping numbers and the dropping amount of posts and interests, and then view the corrolation between things getting more and more political, doesn't take a brain doctor to figure it out.
Like always anyone can write ANYTHING they want. But in a world where people have about a ten second attention span to begin with, if you are going to be jus t another political commentator, or just another mindless diatribe, don't be surprised that you get less and less interest.
MAB Yes, and the conundrum is people come here BECAUSE they are bored. I would guess they dont get much relief from boredom talking about boring things! But I could be wrong. I get a kick out of some of the non sense. But, i have started more MUSICAL and SONGWRITING threads than anybody I see here. ALl the music forum and songwriting forum topics are usually started by me, but nobody really cares about it. Id love the forum to be about all songwriting, but we have to remember, Brian probably gets more traffic and hits on some threads due to the politics and other topics, combined with the music, than he would if it was music alone. So it draws people here, maybe they stay in the same spot too long but...
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/09/19 10:31 AM.
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#1157538 - 10/09/19 11:07 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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Fde,
I think saying boredom is why people come here may be over-generalized?
I mean..I have a million things I NEED to do that don't bore me in the least, but I choose to respond to you, cuz in this very moment, for me, THIS is THEE most important thing for me to do..
And if you look at the activity here around a decade ago, this was a thriving community of folks who were mostly sharing their music and lyrics with one another. Avidly and with great intent. It didn't seem like it was out of boredom, but that learning and growth were happening with this process..as well as the occasional strutting..
So I would argue that perhaps "boredom" was less the thing awhile back, for sure.
Plenty of arguments and disagreements, sure, but mostly about music. I remember starting a thread questioning if "keep or sweep" was really helpful (I argued it was an ego-driven activity that deprived the original author of discovery and growth and actually re-enforced poor writing), and it got pretty heated. But it did not lead to anything that made enemies out of various members like political topics seem to do. Maybe not enemies..but it is an alienating experience, for sure..at least for me..
Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/09/19 11:17 AM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157540 - 10/09/19 11:20 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Michael Zaneski]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
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Fde,
I think saying boredom is why people come here may be over-generalized?
And if you look at the activity here around a decade ago, this was a thriving community of folks who were mostly sharing their music and lyrics with one another. Avidly and with great intent. It didn't seem like it was out of boredom, but that learning and growth were happening with this process..as well as the occasional strutting..
So I would argue that perhaps "boredom" was less the thing awhile back, for sure.
Plenty of arguments and disagreements, sure but mostly about music. I remember starting a thread questioning if "keep or sweep" was really helpful (I argued it was an ego-driven activity that deprived the original author of discovery and growth and actually re-enforced poor writing), and it got pretty heated. But it did not lead to anything that made enemies out of various members like political topics seems to do. Maybe not enemies..but it is an alienating experience, for sure..at least for me..
Mike Maybe over generalized, but I recall mundane arguments as far back as 10 years ago. I think it would still be that way if not for facebook, Im betting that MOST people who used to fill their time here, go to facebook now instead, and not for any other reason. I also think forums like this used to have a promise of success in music to them. I recall some people posting, and the people who visited the site viewed them as some kind of music business God, who could catapult them into a music career. When the music business went to hell, and money is not made on music any more, and almost every artist writes their own songs today, the window of opportunity diminsihed and so did enthusiasm. You can play the game for a few years, but suddenly realize nothing is happening, perhaps people take up gardening instead. I also realized along time ago how cliquey it used to be, I once posted a song that had the word 'baby" in it. a few times, which i dont know why we can never use that word again, but somebody critiqued it, as being too generic and weak etc, which was fine, it was a rocker, and i didnt get upset. BUT, that same person went into another person thread, and PRAISED their song, which had more trite non sense lyrics than I could ever dream up myself. It was obvious to me then, it was a clique based thing. I dont see the cliques as involved these days. Which i think in someways makes the forum better than it used to be But who knows, this thread has also served a purpose for many.
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/09/19 11:22 AM.
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#1157541 - 10/09/19 11:28 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: JAPOV]
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Mark Kaufman
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Top 40 Poster

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,561
Minneapolis
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Speaking for myself, I need a legitimate reason/motivation to write. If the general consensus is that music should not reflect reality then fine... I have no fucking use for it! I've never been much interested in general consensus when it comes to self expression, but as far as music goes, I like it to express absolutely anything whatsoever, not just reality (whatever the general consensus on that is, anyway). To me, if music takes me into an absolute fantasy world, that's fantastic. And music that accurately sheds light on a current topic is great, too. But the freedom to make a song for either reason is really important to me...I don't like only expressing meat and potatoes facts...I like painting pictures.
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#1157543 - 10/09/19 11:43 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 870
90 dB
Top 500 Poster
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Top 500 Poster

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 870
Florida
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This will be the first time in over 10 years I have ever said a word against the way JPF has changed and is headed.
It used to be a caring community of music writers and lyric writers and except for the odd hiccup that is what it was.
It was a fun and caring place.
Now I see a topic that is totally political IMO and as I am from the UK, totally alien to me. And you get to date, 206,292 views and 83 comments.
Then just down the page you get our wonderful member Tammy asking for members to 'Send Glenda Caring Thoughts' as she is very ill and it gets 102 views and 4 caring messages. Glenda is a long time member of JPF and before she became ill was always there with kind thoughts and wishes.
Thank God for the Tammy's of the world, and those who sent a caring message for her.
I don't know about anyone else, but it really does sicken me.
Where has the heart gone, and where have the music topics gone.
I will probably get loads of flack for writing this, but it had to be said.
As this is just getting something off of my chest, I won't be answering any follow-on's added by other JPF members.
It will probably be hi-jacked anyways..lol
God Bless to all,
Roy
ps. It is Glynda Duncan who lots of us know...
She used to have little gatherings at her house for JPF members. I have to respectfully disagree with your premise. There is a total of ONE thread that started out political, with some inspired satire. ONE. There are literally dozens of threads on music, songwriting, et cetera. The fact that they don't get many hits is purely do to our herd mentality. People surf the site and see a thread that has a lot of views and have to see what's in it. Simple as that. Lamenting the current state of the site is understandable, but I would attribute it to attrition more than disinterest. Regards, Bob
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#1157547 - 10/09/19 12:19 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Gavin Sinclair]
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
Michael Zaneski
Top 50 Poster
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Top 50 Poster

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,089
California
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I have discovered a pitfall in being open to other ideas. Because of some of the links I have clicked on from people here, Facebook now thinks I'm a right wing firebrand and has started slamming we with suggestions for sites/posts/books full of the kind of stuff people like that presumably spend their time on. Scary stuff. It's easy to see why these folks are permanently angry and believe the kind of things they do if this is all they see. I'm going to have to go and click on posts from Bernie or something to restore some sanity LOL. Either that or do the sensible thing and not get my news from social media and wacky conspiracy rage factory websites, when I can go to Reuters or the BBC instead. Gavin, Check out the Netflix doc "The Great Hack" which poses the premise that Cambridge Analytica in conjunction with Facebook swung the 2016 Presidential election in a similar manner to what you described. By using FB data (such as what links you clicked as well as questionnaires, some disguised as games) to target undecided voters in swing states like Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, etc. and then fed those folks pro Trump ads. They make a convincing argument that a net of under 80,000 "swung" votes in three key States did the trick. Fascinating stuff.. Mike
Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 10/09/19 12:23 PM.
Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice Fortune depends on the tone of your voice
-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon) from the song "Songs of Love" from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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#1157551 - 10/09/19 02:54 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,431
Dave Rice
Top 30 Poster
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Top 30 Poster

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,431
Texas
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Hi Gang:
As most of you know... I've had an excused absence (health issues) and have been away for much longer than I wanted to be. Over the years, JPF has become a source for many things... a social media outlet of sorts and a place to let folks know you are still alive and kicking. It's also a place where some really nice people "hang out" and because most of us are of one political stripe or another, we have had the discussion about the need for a Politics Forum" and I think Brian even considered it before letting the idea expire. Maybe it's time to bring it up again when Brian is recovered from his latest adventure(s) in surgery. (I'm still praying... 'cause I dread the thought of the loss of a friend... not to mention the loss of yet another site where music and songwriting are the common cloth that binds us together.)
Other than that, I too, have a certain disdain for Political Correctness. I don't want to be told what to think, write or say... within the bounds of my Christian up-bringing. I do want to be inclusive and your Religion, Politics or the lack of interest in either... do not represent a barrier for me to prefer having you as a friend rather than an adversary.
When we are not "face to face"... up close and personal... it is a bit easier to "get snarky" and sound off in opposition to somebody's comment that "ruffles our feathers." All I'm suggesting is that we take time to at least count to ten, walk away for an hour or two, then come back and state your opinion without attacking the party who said it. Because of the sad state of the Music Biz in general, we all need as many "friends" as we can gather.
In all my years (and I am nearly as old as Willie Nelson) I have never convinced anyone to come around to "my way of thinking"... unless they were already in that frame of mind. (Eloquent speaker that I am! LOL!)
Let's be friends if we can and concentrate on songwriting and music... if at all possible.
Love to most of you... and spankings for the rest! LOL!
----West Mayberry Dave
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#1157553 - 10/09/19 03:51 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
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Well, there were tons of political discussions back then, and they weren't any friendlier. There were religious against atheists, religion verse religions, fundamentalists verses Born Agains, Canadians and other countries, against Americans in political wars. Left against Right which is always here.
I think what the originals are complaining about most, is that those people have jumped ship.
I cant even count all the bickers and fights there was back then, I mostly read them from afar. Had to be dozens of off beaten rants, thread snatchers, guided attacks, and of course, there was some bad stuff too....
I said before Facebook took away from here considerably. Cause this was in a sense a prototype of social media.
if its the friendly faces you wish to see again, go track them down and connect with them.
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/09/19 04:01 PM.
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#1157598 - 10/10/19 10:08 AM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
Fdemetrio
Top 200 Poster
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,546
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I think this thread supports my theory that they've all gone to Facebook http://www.jpfolks.com/forum/ubbthr...ne-talked-to-ben-willis.html#Post1157275Not seen on Facebook lately, so come back to look for him here. If they had been here all along, they wouldnt need to come back looking. That's not an insult to anyone, and I wish Ben well, but thats what may make people wonder what happened to the site, the people are still around, they just hang out in a different spot now.
Last edited by Fdemetrio; 10/10/19 10:09 AM.
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#1157617 - 10/10/19 10:47 PM
Re: What has happened to JPF
[Re: Roy Cooper]
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,075
TamsNumber4
Top 100 Poster
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Top 100 Poster

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,075
New Hampshire
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Fdemetrio,
With all due respect, I started that thread about Ben Willis but it doesn't prove anything. At the time, I had been away from this site doing 50/90 (write 50 songs in 90 days) where you will find a fair share of JPF folk as well as in February during FAWM, these songwriting competitions take all of your time. It had just ended and I checked on my friends, I noticed he hadn't posted an update on Facebook and I then came here to see if anyone has heard from him, he has an eye issue and I expect his family and close friends on FB to be posting about him. Even Brian has an active JPF Facebook page and I have been transferring his posts into JPF this week so that everyone can see his health updates.
The point is..no one is posting songs for comment on Facebook. No one is posting unfinished lyrics on Facebook. The population here ebbs and flows. Joice used to be here all of the time, but had to withdraw herself to learn covers and start performing and making money. I have done the same, I have learned a lot here and always return, but admit that running open mics, running a songwriting group, keeping up my multiple music sites and websites, memorizing music, practice all detracts from songwriting, so going into intense songwriting competitions is a good way to keep things going. Music can take a lot of your time. Facebook is a good way to keep in touch with people, but it isn't a music site like this.
Members here need to "RECRUIT" people. I am always telling people about this site and how they can get help here. New blood and good moderating could boost this site. Also, some new ideas to attract the old members back.
Looking for reasons on why things are the way they are instead of focusing on positive change is a waste of time. Remember why things were good, why things worked and what can be done to rejuvenate the site. It is the constant negative talk and lack of good moderating, kindness and respect that is problematic. There are good people here, we are a musical family.
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