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#1160742 - 01/19/20 07:17 AM Does this seem legit?  
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Stanj3 Offline
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Received this from Leopard Music, does it seem legit? All answers welcom and thank you.

Hi Stan.


Your email arrived with me at a good time as I was taking a lunch break so had time to view your 3 song submissions, the songs have potential but so need going back into studio and bringing then songs to days level and productions to succeed in getting placement as they are now they sound very dated.


If you have the Wav files or backing track plus mp3 a good producer can lift these tracks so the level we can view to consider offering Publishing, many of our songwriters work with a great Guy / Producer here in the UK at North West Recording Studios, should this be of interest let me know and I will email you Paul's details to connect and I know Paul will take a listen and will able able to tell you what he can do and the cost.


Best Wishes for 2020.


Brian.

#1160745 - 01/19/20 10:08 AM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Well, depends on what you mean by "legit." Most companies you submit songs to and accept "Unsolicited material" also own studios and the main thrust is to try and get studio business. Having said that, no company is going to represent songs that are substandard recordings. So is it legit? Yes and no. They want better sounding recordings for a reason, yet, the main part of their business is to get you to record with them.

You always have to understand what the music business is. Anyone who is a publisher, song plugger, film and television library, etc. have thousands and thousands of songs. The priorities are always to people closest to them, or the people who pay them the most money. Songs today, don't earn much when it comes to money, royalties, etc. so you have to decide what it means to you. You are always trying to up the level of your odds.

I will tell you that the chances of gettting songs recorded in the first place are not too good in the best of circumstances. Artists are now all writers so getting them to take something over their own, the songs of their producers, publishing and recording companies, are not very good. It is a relationship based business, so the closer you can get to people you associate with, the better your chances are. The further away from a personal relationship, the less your chances are.

You might want to listen to the quality of your recordings up against other songwriters and see how well they stack up. If this company can give you some examples of the songs they represent, if they have them on a web site, etc. You might want to listen to those to see where your's stand. In today's world everything we do have to represent us well and the recordings, whether they are "demos" (Demonstrations) of the songs or full recordings to go on YOU TUBE, FACEBOOK, TWITTER, web sites, etc. So you have to approach it very business like. It's most often some money you won't be able to get back. So decide how important those overall recordings are to you, not just this particular company. You never know where they are going to end up and they will represent you for more than just one or two pitches. They are your children. So give them the best clothes you can.

Good luck,
MAB

#1160750 - 01/19/20 11:08 AM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Ray E. Strode Offline
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Yes,
As far as it goes. If you have their demo service do your demos there is no gurantee that they will sign them. And if they do they may go nowhere. If you haven't done so already I suggest you post them in the Mp3 Forum here and get some opinions before you do anything else. They may be dated, they may not be. Good luck.


Ray E. Strode
#1160751 - 01/19/20 11:23 AM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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Very good suggestion Ray. Hmmm.

#1160761 - 01/19/20 02:32 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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I dont have much experience but I do have one story with a company wanting the same exact thing. They list themselves under legitimate publishing and recording company guises but what they really are are recording studios trying to get you to buy a demo.

"We listened to your song and we think it could be a hit with the right production" The cost to produce it will be 1800 dollars, which can be broken up into small payments like 2/900,4/450

It's just a scam to make money on recording. I got one of those offers when I was a kid. Was jumping up and down, my dad was immediately a kill joy. "Wait a minute, why do you have to pay them if they like you" lol, he didnt know anything about the music business but he was spot on.

I didnt think scams like that still exist, but I guess they never grow old.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/19/20 02:33 PM.
#1160778 - 01/20/20 06:42 AM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Stanj3 Offline
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Thank you all for the reply and information, I have decided to pass on this as I thought it was just a demo service but wanted some info. I do have some songs published and there was no cost to me at all, but hey, best to open all doors and look inside to see what's there. Thank you again, Stan

#1160780 - 01/20/20 08:03 AM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Everett Adams Online content
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Everett Adams  Online Content
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One time publishing companies would pay to do the pro demo and take possession of 50% of your song, now they want you to produce the pro demo but still want 50% of your song. Beware, especially if they own the demo studio, they make money even if your song is no good. If they should latch onto a good song that does make money, they are laughing all the way to the bank with little investment or risk.

#1160784 - 01/20/20 10:37 AM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Gary E. Andrews Offline
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If you don't already have some 'Market Research', by which I mean you've played and sung this Song for audiences and they have expressed genuine appreciation for it, not just polite applause, not yo Momma's praise, but genuine applause, strangers who can sing THE Hook, maybe audiences that are singing along by the end of the Song, or the next time they hear it, listeners who heard it before and want to hear it again...something...anything solid that indicates your Song has potential for broad commercial $ appeal, you might be wasting your money.
Is it worth an $1,800 dollar 'investment' to find out? 'Investment' implied 'Return-On-Investment' (ROI).
Once you've got an $1,800 dollar demo, what next? Who's going to do the legwork of pitching it to potential 'consumers' in the marketplace who might 'cut' and 'release' it to market where it can, maybe, earn you back some of what you've 'investment? Or was your money simply 'spent'?
One should ask, 'Do I know anything about the person or company making me promises?
Do they have any verifiable track record of success?
Do I know enough about legal contracting to sign my name and not give away the value I think might be in my Song?'
We're always eager to feel like a Song is moving toward the market, but when we're amateurs at the entrepreneurial end of things, something we didn't study or aspire to be, a new venture beyond being a creative hobbyist, to becoming a commercial endeavor, a company engaged in commerce with others, we can be enticed to sign our name, legally committing ourselves to what the document THEY wrote says.
It's always good to explore the possibilities, but it's always good to move cautiously with those who DO know what they're agreeing to, since you may NOT know what you're agreeing to. Once you sign your name, as an adult, you're committed to abide by the terms of the contract.


There will always be another song to be written. Someone will write it. Why not you? www.garyeandrews.com
#1160788 - 01/20/20 01:22 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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When the "big money drop" started at the end of the 90's, people started having to do other things to offset income. Publishers, who once employed writers, had cuts, pitched songs, paid draws, (salaries), paid for demos, etc. became "SONG PLUGGERS" or "PLACEMENT AGENCIES" or "FILM AND TELEVISION LIBRARIES." Those that had built recording studios (a lot of those during the late 80's and 90's as the costs of recording equipment started coming down and things like PRO TOOLS came online, started emphasizing the studios as opposed to pitching songs. Since even if you got cuts, you were likely not to make a dime off of them, it made sense to shift to the recording.

A main problem with this in the "pitching" world, is that these companies became known for "accepting anything" and therefore their reputations took a nosedive. Then the quality or pitchability of songs declined and it was a reinforcing circle. Now if you don't personally know artists, producers, insiders, you don't even get anything heard. And while the money all declined, the demand for radio sounding, broadcast quality recordings, increased. Now the industry standard is having demos as good as the records on the radio.

So you have to decide on your songs, what is the best for the song itself. Gary has a great suggestion in getting songs tested out in public before going through the steps of a recording. And you have to look at it as your own "business card." How much do you believe in your own writing, your own songs, your own abilities? That should guide you into what you spend. And if you can't afford to spend what you have to, you need to look to other methods.

Personally, I think every songwriter needs to be building relationships. And those should include relationships with musicians, people that own their own recording equipment, artists on their way up. Having a local hero sing one of your songs is much better than having one sitting on a computer somewhere. You just have to look at all this in a broader context of self expression.

MAB

#1160789 - 01/20/20 02:23 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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"Your email arrived with me at a good time as I was taking a lunch break so had time to view your 3 song submissions" - Leopard Music

laugh Opening line is so unprofessional. I've never received bullshit like this from any of my legit companies.

Try Crucial Music: https://www.crucialmusic.com/ - they'll let you submit 3 songs at a time. Great placements! Very difficult to be accepted. Their reviewing process is rugged. Will take up to 2-3 months. Then you have to have a clean work register with your Pro. You’ll have to sign a contract stating you own the masters. After that is finished, they’ll send you an email with a dozen questions that must be answered honestly & correctly. Maybe in 3-4 months they’ll include your work in their catalog. At least you’ll have an honest idea of the strength of your songs. Good luck!

Best, John smile

Last edited by John Lawrence Schick; 01/20/20 02:24 PM.
#1160798 - 01/21/20 10:12 AM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Fdemetrio  Online Content
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In my case this company, they were called "Rainbow Records" and by golly the contract they sent in the mail looked like a rainbow, shiny and glossy with lots of colors. They used to advertise in the back of trade magazines, like musician mag, or we had a local paper called the "Acquarian" or EC Rocker and knowing people always have stars in their eyes they advertised in them.

I had just finished a demo in a studio and had been picthing to people in the songwriters market, so I saw the ad "songs needed for producer with major credits" Saying why not, one more tape one more stamp i sent it.

Within two weeks I had the contract in my mailbox. My Dad wanted to beat the guy up, Im like Dad he's in California. lol. But we read the whole thing through, pretty simple.

Nothing illegal about saying "we like your song" The two main promises were to produce the song, AND to have it released on the companies compilation CD. And Im guessing that cd was just frosting..."you mean I can be on a album"? yeah, but the only people who will hear it are people who get their marketing material.

So as long as they delivered on the recording and the comp cd, they werent doing anything illegal. But realistically they were liars, preying on people who dont know any better, and cashing in on dreamers.

"Wow a record company wants my song"

Well we ended up throwing the contract in the trash. I was offered a few contracts from companies in the songwriters market, but those companies go out of business within months sometimes.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/21/20 10:25 AM.
#1160802 - 01/21/20 11:26 AM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Ray E. Strode Offline
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Ray E. Strode  Offline
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Yes,
From time to time I get E-mail Ad's wanting me to put one, or more, of my songs on a Compilation CD for $400.00 a pop. They "Send" them to industry types looking for songs. Nothing illegal about it, but it is basically a scam to separate you from your money. I pass.


Ray E. Strode
#1160804 - 01/21/20 12:47 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Marc Barnette Offline
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Marc Barnette  Offline
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The General rule of thumb is that if you are not a fairly known writer or artist, with songs or artists out performing, have your songs on various web sites, primarily as a performer, and someone concats you out of the blue, it is probably questionable. The problem with all these "compilations" is that "actual": record companies, artists publishers and song pluggers don't do business like that. They don't have time for the "scattershot" approach. They are very definite on what they are looking for and will never listen to more than one song, so if you are song number 14 on a 20 song compilation, you are not going to be heard.

And the definition of a "pitch" is dropping off someone at a publisher or someone's office, not that they take anything. These companies are known for taking anything and so no one even listens to what they do. Often they have contests, and the winners go on these compilations. If you've ever judged a contest, you know how really substandard and terrible the songs are. Finding one that even is mediocre is a nightmare. Ask Brian about having thousands and hundreds of thousands of songs to go through. There is only so much physical time. It has taken him years to do his awards lists, so it is time and labor intensive.
There is no one in the "ACTUAL MUSIC BUSINESS" that has time nor the inclination for that.

If you were to go to a legitimate publisher, you find stacks and stacks of CD's thumb drives, and on their computer hundreds of emails or files containing songs. Most of these are from people they actually KNOW, many times songs that they have paid for in the demos or writers salaries. They are trying to place those songs. They also have larger stacks and stacks of things they have not listened to yet. Again, almost all these are either from someone they know, or are referred from someone they know. An average artist, producer, publisher, record people, will be going through around 3000 songs for a project. The majority of those will be weeded out after a line after the intro and listened to by assistants to assistants.

So thinking that some person that will take anything who can't provide you with examples of who they work with is really not worth your time or money. If they have a studio with sounds you like, that is one thing. But don't put too much belief into anything. Get references and find out what their track record is with other artists.

Knowing is believing.
MAB

#1160807 - 01/21/20 03:25 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Well the scary part for me is it appears they are still around. Here they have their discog record and they are also listed as a cd manfacturing company. Im talkin over 25 years ago this was offered to me. https://www.discogs.com/label/438286-Rainbow-Records-20 Im shocked they are still around, unless its somebody else with the same name same location

The tip off for me was it all came in the mail, nobody called. I mean who signs somebody to a label without contacting them first or meeting them? If they called you you might ask too many questions!


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 01/21/20 03:26 PM.
#1160820 - 01/21/20 08:16 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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John W. Selleck Offline
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"Your email arrived with me at a good time as I was taking a lunch break so had time to view your 3 song submissions" - Leopard Music

laugh Opening line is so unprofessional. I've never received bullshit like this from any of my legit companies.

Try Crucial Music: https://www.crucialmusic.com/ - they'll let you submit 3 songs at a time. Great placements! Very difficult to be accepted. Their reviewing process is rugged. Will take up to 2-3 months. Then you have to have a clean work register with your Pro. You’ll have to sign a contract stating you own the masters. After that is finished, they’ll send you an email with a dozen questions that must be answered honestly & correctly. Maybe in 3-4 months they’ll include your work in their catalog. At least you’ll have an honest idea of the strength of your songs. Good luck!

Best, John smile


Hi John,
Already following that good advice, 2 months in, not reviewed yet but I'm hopeful.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost

http://www.soundclick.com/johnsings
http://www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
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#1160855 - 01/22/20 12:15 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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John Lawrence Schick Offline
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Originally Posted by John W. Selleck
Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"Your email arrived with me at a good time as I was taking a lunch break so had time to view your 3 song submissions" - Leopard Music

laugh Opening line is so unprofessional. I've never received bullshit like this from any of my legit companies.

Try Crucial Music: https://www.crucialmusic.com/ - they'll let you submit 3 songs at a time. Great placements! Very difficult to be accepted. Their reviewing process is rugged. Will take up to 2-3 months. Then you have to have a clean work register with your Pro. You’ll have to sign a contract stating you own the masters. After that is finished, they’ll send you an email with a dozen questions that must be answered honestly & correctly. Maybe in 3-4 months they’ll include your work in their catalog. At least you’ll have an honest idea of the strength of your songs. Good luck!

Best, John smile


Hi John,
Already following that good advice, 2 months in, not reviewed yet but I'm hopeful.


Don't be discouraged if you get rejected the first time John. Just submit another 3 songs. They're the first to admit how difficult it is to get over their hurtles. They've accepted 12 out of over 100 of mine submitted.

Good luck, John smile

#1161510 - 02/11/20 12:57 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
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Brian Austin Whitney Online content
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Indianapolis, IN USA
Great advice guys.

It is important to remember that now almost ANYONE with a computer can record a professional demo. All you need in addition to that is the skill as a producer to bring it to life. That is both good and bad. We have a member who recorded with an outdated Apple laptop and a single Microphone and won a Grammy for it (and I think 5 more on top of it). If you know what you are doing and do it well, you can get great results. So aside from first getting FREE feedback here on our MP3 board, (where folks will tell you the truth if you ASK point blank if it is good enough as written to invest more money in, just remember that you need to ask for it and be thankful to those who respond even if it isn't what you hoped you will hear). Most people can give you an honest opinion if a song is way off the mark. So get feedback (and give some to others) here, and if it is all good, then remember what you want to accomplish. If you want to look for a film/tv placement, it has to be a finished quality song. If it is a simple demo with in tune vocals and a solid instrumental backing, lots of people can produce that for reasonable money.

What is reasonable money? It is different for everyone, but the principle is the same. What can you afford to lose where it does not change your life in any negative way? For most working people that might mean the money you might spend on a nice evening out with your significant other. Nice Dinner, Concert, Cab Ride/Gas Money etc. For most that is over $100. You can often get a simple guitar/vocal recording for $100-200 dollars. If you want a full production, then the cost goes up to maybe the cost of going to a Pro Sports game, plus food and parking. $300-400 dollars can usually get you top notch recordings that should be commercially viable for any purpose. And there are many ranges below that. I'd never pay anyone more than $400 without easily having the money to do so AND experience making money with your music regularly. If you are not a Pro, DON'T spend more than $100-150 bucks on a demo recording. Just don't.

Now always remember that people with a studio doing the recording are also making their living. $100 bucks for an hours work making your song sound great is worth it. (And remember, people asking for more are not necessarily scamming you. They may absolutely be giving you a great deal for much more than that). But part of being in the "industry" is doing your homework, learning how it all works and methodically working your way up from making the best home recording you can by simply recording it with your cell phone etc. or your own computer or simple gear. That is all part of it. Don't try to "buy" success. You can't afford it and even if you could, it likely won't happen anyway no matter how much you pay. Until you are experienced enough to understand financially why investing X amount of money in a recording will provide you with X times 5 back in profit, simply don't spend them money. You need to learn. We all do when we start out.

So start small, get tons of free feedback, first from friends and family, then from strangers who will be honest. If it is always universally YES, YOU'RE GREAT! always ask yourself if the person telling you that has any stake in doing so. Are they looking for money from you for a service or by selling you something? Are they people who love you and just want you to be happy? Are they people at school who idolize you (or for that matter hate you or are jealous)? Have you asked anyone who makes their living in music? Have you come to a site like this one and gotten feedback from strangers that match all the positive reviews you've been getting from others? If ALL those answers are YES, IT'S GREAT! then congrats. You MIGHT have something worth spending $100 dollars on. But you likely still do not have something worth spend a lot more. Until you have done this a while, or until someone has PAID you to play at a venue with paying customers (a bar, a coffee shop, a music venue, a festival etc.) you still don't have any real idea if what you have has COMMERCIAL value.

I could keep going on and on.. but you get the idea hopefully. If not, STOP and learn more. Making music is a life long activity. Approach it all with a long game mentality. Never try to buy success. Always question people's motives. If someone is super enthusiastic about your talent and thinks you should spend a lot of money doing something, then turn it around and ask them if they'd like to invest in your talent? Most will laugh or run the other way. Then you know the truth.

Learn, Succeed, Thrive! We're All In This Together, Just Plain Folks

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@aol.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..."

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#1161564 - 02/14/20 05:41 PM Re: Does this seem legit? [Re: Stanj3]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,908
Colin Ward Offline
Colin Ward  Offline

Top 30 Poster

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,908
Saint Petersburg. FL
I haven't been around here much for a while but I stumbled on this thread and listened to a couple of songs you have posted. In the interest of saving you money, I would not invest with this company. To be blunt, your songs do not cut it in today's music scene plus the recordings are way off the mark. I do not mean to be rude and if you enjoy writing you should carry on, but please don't let scammers take your money.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/



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