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#1164230 05/10/20 09:20 PM
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Read it for yourself. I thought this was a hoax. I saw plenty of commentary, so I went and read it.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6666/text?r=2&s=1

The obvious "troll" of using #6666 aside, this authoritarianism should give any freedom minding people a reason to pause.


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Big Brother in the shape of a Donkey is still doing his best to destroy our country. Let traitors beware!

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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Big Brother in the shape of a Donkey is still doing his best to destroy our country. Let traitors beware!


Well, Bobby Rush isn't exactly a choirboy, but I saw reports saying this had bi partisan support though anyone from either party not in a 1000% secure seat (sadly that is about 80% from both parties) who votes for it will be out. I definitely saw Bill Gates supporting it in his own words and for some reason he's become the world's unelected overlord.


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Little by little governments are taking over control of our lives. Right now you can volunteer to have a chip put in your hand that appears to be ideal, especially to those that travel a lot. But how much longer will it be that society will EXPECT you to have that chip in your hand so you can buy and sell, even work. 666 is the number of his name. There are places of business now that will not accept cash, you must have a credit card, what happens if credit cards become obsolete in favour of this chip. From a carnal point of view it looks great, but not so from a biblical point of view, read Rev. chapter 13, verses 16 to 18.

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Eh, Well,
I would ask all those Liberals if they have ever heard that song PHILADELPHIA LAWYER by Maddox Brothers and Rose. To Coin a Phrase, THE DAM CAN ONLY HOLD SO MUCH WATER, BEFORE IT BREAKS. The people got fed up with the democrats last election and elected Trump. As one of our Senators recently said, The people aren't stupid!


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This will never pass. And even if it did, if it was ever used it would probably be undone as fast as it was written. Plus, we have a Republican president it would be on Trump.

Once a vaccine and treatment is found, they will start dreaming up another stupid bill

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From what I understand, even the demokrauts don't like this bill. Though I believe they proposed an alternative bill. Probably just as bad.

John smile

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From what I understand only one Republican supports it.

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Here I thought the issue was the one trillion dollar appropriation but you focus on contact tracing as some kind of bad thing????

Though I would not support smart phone apps that keep tabs on everyone, to trace your contacts should you get infected is emminently reasonable and the smart thing to do

But by all means USA, go ahead and squash that or don't co operate.

Dont allow anyone to identify others who you, as someone with the virus, have come into contact with. Do not allow the medical system to trace the spread of the virus so they can instruct those who may have been infected by you to self isolate or give them early medical care.

By all means hobble the medical system exactly where it can be most effective in stopping the spread or lowing it down.

By all means, don't keep distance between you and others...by all means open everything up. Go for herd immunity and who cares how many people die along the way.

By all means allow those best protected to dictate to you that you should go to work.

By all means listen to those with most to gain that you should put yourself at risk.

By all means express your freedom and put other lives at risk. Who is anyone to tell you what you can and cannot do.

By all means do not look at the consequences of you expressing your right to do whatever you please

By all means forget about that concept related to freedom to your right to do whatever you want that says it stops when you endanger others

By all means do not look at other countries where citizens are urged to look out after one another because that is socialism

By all means, do not focus on the Administration not sharing CDC published guidelines for opening up your economy because heaven forbid states listen and something bad happens that could blow back on Trump. Better to let individual states decide so the feds can keep their hands clean and say "we take no responsibility"

By all means, keep politicizing this pandemic, and continue with the us vs them paradigm.

By all means look for others to blame and do not look to your own collective behaviour as contributing anything

After all, who is anyone, even doctors, scientists and experts, to tell you what you should do or believe. As soon as they tell you anything, they are infringing on your right to do the exact opposite. So,

BY all means, fight them tooth and nail. Deny there is a problem. It is only a minor flu, the numbers are exaggerated. It's a hoax.

By all means, believe this is yet another "Deep State" plot.

By all means believe its a plot by Big Pharma

BY all means do not worry about being the one country on earth now most infected and affected

By all means...because you have God given rights that no one can take away...


If writing ever becomes work I think I'm going to have to stop

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By all means, stay the he'll out of people's homes. I can't think of any reason why somebody would support that

Spend the money on treatment and vaccine, this whole thing goes away.

Contact tracing is impossible anyway. I was at home depot last wednesday, so anyone at home depot last Wednesday just report for testing, it's not gonna happen.

And there are probably thousands of people who knew they had it but didn't get treated, thousands more who didn't know they had it

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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Here I thought the issue was the one trillion dollar appropriation but you focus on contact tracing as some kind of bad thing????

Though I would not support smart phone apps that keep tabs on everyone, to trace your contacts should you get infected is emminently reasonable and the smart thing to do

But by all means USA, go ahead and squash that or don't co operate.

Dont allow anyone to identify others who you, as someone with the virus, have come into contact with. Do not allow the medical system to trace the spread of the virus so they can instruct those who may have been infected by you to self isolate or give them early medical care.

By all means hobble the medical system exactly where it can be most effective in stopping the spread or lowing it down.

By all means, don't keep distance between you and others...by all means open everything up. Go for herd immunity and who cares how many people die along the way.

By all means allow those best protected to dictate to you that you should go to work.

By all means listen to those with most to gain that you should put yourself at risk.

By all means express your freedom and put other lives at risk. Who is anyone to tell you what you can and cannot do.

By all means do not look at the consequences of you expressing your right to do whatever you please

By all means forget about that concept related to freedom to your right to do whatever you want that says it stops when you endanger others

By all means do not look at other countries where citizens are urged to look out after one another because that is socialism

By all means, do not focus on the Administration not sharing CDC published guidelines for opening up your economy because heaven forbid states listen and something bad happens that could blow back on Trump. Better to let individual states decide so the feds can keep their hands clean and say "we take no responsibility"

By all means, keep politicizing this pandemic, and continue with the us vs them paradigm.

By all means look for others to blame and do not look to your own collective behaviour as contributing anything

After all, who is anyone, even doctors, scientists and experts, to tell you what you should do or believe. As soon as they tell you anything, they are infringing on your right to do the exact opposite. So,

BY all means, fight them tooth and nail. Deny there is a problem. It is only a minor flu, the numbers are exaggerated. It's a hoax.

By all means, believe this is yet another "Deep State" plot.

By all means believe its a plot by Big Pharma

BY all means do not worry about being the one country on earth now most infected and affected

By all means...because you have God given rights that no one can take away...






For a little, insignificant country of 38 million people, you Canadians sure have a lot to say. It really does get tedious at times.


So "by all means"...STFU.


Regards,


Bob

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Sure Bob...by all means..I mean, how dare I be critical of how some of the people in the US are handling themselves in this pandemic, because you are, after all, the greatest country this world has ever seen and can do absolutely no wrong, collectively and individually standing head and shoulders above anyone else in the world, making better decisions than anyone else

Must be so inconvenient to you to know that out of about 285k deaths in the world, the US accounts for 81K of those...just over 28% of the world's body count...the next most is the UK with 32k

So inconvenient when our insignificant country, with about 1\12th of your population, has less than 1\20th of your casualties..I mean I\we have absolutely nothing to bring to the conversation

So inconvenient that we are your staunchest ally, standing beside you through wars, 9\11...we brought your Iranians hostages home...and we truly care about you

So inconvenient in fact that I should STFU and go away

Good add to the conversation Bob.

By all means shoot the messenger.











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John your anti American ideas sometimes come through pretty cleanly.

Most of the time you're ok. I don't understand why so many Canadians hate the us but yet are always talking about it

One thing Americans hate is other countries telling us how to have a country

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FD...you and I are essentially on the same side...and I have a great deal of respect for the US. I do not hate you or the US at all, but sometimes you act like idiots and need to be told that. And don't mistake sarcasm for hatred

It does not come from any anti American bias...although I readily admit to being proudly Canadian. It comes from being a neighbour who has some perspective on things and cares.

And it is even somewhat selfish. We share the longest undefended border and it will remain closed until both our countries have tackled this. I have an August trip planned and I want to go because it relates to our shared interest in songwriting...but that ability is looking slim

And I was absolutely expecting a backlash because the only thing that unifies the USA is being told they need to give their head a shake. Definitely been through that before here at JPF. If you don't like what we\I say, suddenly I\we hate you and our collective past is thrown out the window



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I describe it like this. When my brother and I used to hang around playing ball, and I'd get into mischief or something, he'd handle it himself, maybe smack me around or yell, if somebody else tried to do that he'd knock them out instead. Insert example

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Yes...but what if you are both doing something stupid??? Should you be left to your own devices?? Should no one intercede??

What if your behaviour threatens your life, your brother's life, that of your family and community and beyond...should no one be allowed to tell you to stop???



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Point is, he has the right, others didnt

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Silly me...here I thought I had the right to free speech, to my opinions, to share my concerns for the welfare of the US, to underscore certain issues of paramount importance to not only the US but Canada as well...guess that must stop at the border.


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Free speech yes, speech being accepted freely, different story.

Just telling why it may fall on deaf ears. I have never once criticized Canada, I don't even pay attention to it. Why Canada is obsessed with us i dont know

And many tend to say "if America is so great...etc"

Most don't wanna hear it from a canadian. Friendly suggestions considered

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You do see that you therefore support shooting the messenger just because "they are not one of us" right?

The way I have answered "why we are so obsessed" is that

1) we share a long history as friends and allies
2) we are very important to eachother in terms of trade
3) culturally we are similar
4) we are overwhelmed by your media...an area where we are actually better endowed. We not only get US media, but ours as well, and many outlets from around the world
5) our description of our relationship is that "if the US sneezes, Canada catches a cold"

You do know that Canada is also very much responsible for lots and lots of your culture and has enriched the US with all kinds of advancements, so while you may not be paying attention, you are far better off for our presence.

Take some time to search for Canadian movie, television and music stars in the US. From the very early days we were there. America's Sweetheart, Mary Pickford? Canadian. Warner Brothers? Canadian... and it just keeps on going...basketball & hockey? Both Canadian. Baseball stems from England and similar games there..first played in Canada in 1838

Take some time to search Canadian inventions

So much of the US comes from Canada...all you need to do is pay some attention

On the flip side. lots and lots of things that enrich us comes from south of our border.

We are all over eachother there.

But you have to be paying attention




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Yes, us Americans can be arrogant. As if we’re the only one’s worthy of being called Americans. There are 23 countries in North America (Americans) and a dozen, plus territories, in South America (Americans also). So, let’s not be snobbish and think we’re the only Country worthy of being called “Americans”. Maybe the other countries should start calling us United Statians.

No need to post definitions of what an American is. They were all written by United Statians.

John laugh

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Ok switch the word Americans and replace it with people from and living the United States.

It's a bit like telling a married couple how to run their marriage

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Honestly FD, can't see why you are trying to die on this hill. Essentially you are saying that no one outside the US can be critical of anything the US says or does.

Does that just about sum things up for you?


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Scan back I never said you can't criticize, but look at the reception you got.

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Only from Bob ...then you chimed in .....

Quote
John your anti American ideas sometimes come through pretty cleanly.

Most of the time you're ok. I don't understand why so many Canadians hate the us but yet are always talking about it

One thing Americans hate is other countries telling us how to have a country



Quote
Point is, he has the right, others didnt



Quote
Ok switch the word Americans and replace it with people from and living the United States.

It's a bit like telling a married couple how to run their marriage



Only this one this one tempered it some...but emphasises that my free speech will not be accepted...and most don't want to hear it from Canada

Quote
Free speech yes, speech being accepted freely, different story.

Just telling why it may fall on deaf ears. I have never once criticized Canada, I don't even pay attention to it. Why Canada is obsessed with us i dont know

And many tend to say "if America is so great...etc"

Most don't wanna hear it from a canadian. Friendly suggestions considered



How am I supposed to take it?

Clearly according to you my role is to STFU and acquiesce to whatever the US does to itself and others because it falls on deaf ears anyway.




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Were they accepted? Sometimes yes you and some of you fe!low Canadians bark up the wrong tree.

If I yell racial slurs In the middle of Harlem would I expect somebody to buy me a beer?

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No...but I also do not expect you to cut off your nose to spite your face.


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Mirror that.

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AW, Canadians.
Wouldja know I have been reading about Hank Snow, A Canadian! And a superstar Country Singer,


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There's slot of great Canadian artists. Neil Young, Bryan Adams, Gordon Lightfoot, Rush, Leonard Cohen

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April Wine.

About the O.P.
I honesty thought they would be more subtle about this.

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I'm Canadian and there is much to admire about the USA but there is much to be critical about too. I watched two special TV programs last night which pointed out some things I didn't realize. The USA is very involved in drugs and gun running, even the CIA and FBI, they've been involved in bringing in and selling drugs, that is according to that show. Another show was about serial killers. I did not know that 50% of the world's serial killers are Americans, 1400, that is a lot, and they don't know why. They come from all walks of life, from poor and rich families, black, white, Hispanic, etc.

I admire Americans because they are not afraid to take chances, see an opportunity, go for it, if it fails, so what, try again. Some might say that is reckless. I've said before that God has blessed America beyond all nations, but with blessings comes responsibility, and off late that is lacking big time. Most of the world's porn comes from the States, more drugs and alcohol consumed there also, lots of poverty and lots of riches, crime, murders, etc. All countries have a share of these vices and no country is perfect, no form of government is perfect, people are flawed therefore we produce flawed governments. I like ambition but I don't like greed. where does ambition end and greed begin. A Canadian( I won't say his name) once said greed is good, it helps the economy, creates jobs, he is right to a point but greed can also ruin lives, their own and others.

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Back to this Bill

What parts do you so vehemently oppose??? I see nothing here that infringes on anyone's rights.



A BILL
To authorize the Secretary of Health and Human Services to award grants to eligible entities to conduct diagnostic testing for COVID–19, and related activities such as contact tracing, through mobile health units and, as necessary, at individuals’ residences, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the “COVID–19 Testing, Reaching, And Contacting Everyone (TRACE) Act”.

SEC. 2. COVID–19 TESTING AND CONTACT TRACING USING MOBILE HEALTH UNITS.

(a) In General.—The Secretary of Health and Human Services, acting through the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, may award grants to eligible entities to conduct diagnostic testing for COVID–19, to trace and monitor the contacts of infected individuals, and to support the quarantine of such contacts, through—

(1) mobile health units; and

(2) as necessary, testing individuals and providing individuals with services related to testing and quarantine at their residences.

(b) Permissible Uses Of Funds.—A grant recipient under this section may use the grant funds, in support of the activities described in subsection (a)—

(1) to hire, train, compensate, and pay the expenses of individuals; and

(2) to purchase personal protective equipment and other supplies.

(c) Priority.—In selecting grant recipients under this section, the Secretary shall give priority to—

(1) applicants proposing to conduct activities funded under this section in hot spots and medically underserved communities; and

(2) applicants that agree, in hiring individuals to carry out activities funded under this section, to hire residents of the area or community where the activities will primarily occur, with higher priority among applicants described in this paragraph given based on the percentage of individuals to be hired from such area or community.

(d) Distribution.—In selecting grant recipients under this section, the Secretary shall ensure that grants are distributed across urban and rural areas.

(e) Federal Privacy Requirements.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to supersede any Federal privacy or confidentiality requirement, including the regulations promulgated under section 264(c) of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (Public Law 104–191; 110 Stat. 2033) and section 543 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 290dd–2).

(f) Definitions.—In this section:

(1) The term “eligible entity” means—

(A) a Federally qualified health center (as defined in section 1861(aa) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x(aa)));

(B) a school-based health clinic;

(C) a disproportionate share hospital (as defined under the applicable State plan under title XIX of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1396 et seq.) pursuant to section 1923(a)(1)(A) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 1396r–4));

(D) an academic medical center;

(E) a nonprofit organization (including any such faith-based organization);

(F) an institution of higher education (as defined in section 101 of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1001));

(G) a high school (as defined in section 8101 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 7801)); or

(H) any other type of entity that is determined by the Secretary to be an eligible entity for purposes of this section.

(2) The term “emergency period” has the meaning given to that term in section 1135(g)(1)(B) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1320b–5(g)(1)(B)).

(3) The term “hot spot” means a geographic area where the rate of infection with the virus that causes COVID–19 exceeds the national average.

(4) The term “medically underserved community” has the meaning given to that term in section 799B of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 295p).

(5) The term “Secretary” means the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

(g) Authorization Of Appropriations.—To carry out this section, there are authorized to be appropriated—

(1) $100,000,000,000 for fiscal year 2020; and

(2) such sums as may be necessary for each of fiscal year 2021 and any subsequent fiscal year during which the emergency period continues


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Originally Posted by Everett Adams
I'm Canadian and there is much to admire about the USA but there is much to be critical about too. I watched two special TV programs last night which pointed out some things I didn't realize. The USA is very involved in drugs and gun running, even the CIA and FBI, they've been involved in bringing in and selling drugs, that is according to that show. Another show was about serial killers. I did not know that 50% of the world's serial killers are Americans, 1400, that is a lot, and they don't know why. They come from all walks of life, from poor and rich families, black, white, Hispanic, etc.

I admire Americans because they are not afraid to take chances, see an opportunity, go for it, if it fails, so what, try again. Some might say that is reckless. I've said before that God has blessed America beyond all nations, but with blessings comes responsibility, and off late that is lacking big time. Most of the world's porn comes from the States, more drugs and alcohol consumed there also, lots of poverty and lots of riches, crime, murders, etc. All countries have a share of these vices and no country is perfect, no form of government is perfect, people are flawed therefore we produce flawed governments. I like ambition but I don't like greed. where does ambition end and greed begin. A Canadian( I won't say his name) once said greed is good, it helps the economy, creates jobs, he is right to a point but greed can also ruin lives, their own and others.






In the words of another Canadian, Gordon Sinclair, in 1973, in the midst of the Vietnam War:



"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I’d like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don’t they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon — not once, but several times — and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don’t think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I’m one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."



Regards,


Bob



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Unless the fed govt coerces individuals against their will to comply with govt efforts to achieve ends such as contact tracing...I dont see anything here other than setting up another bureaucracy.
The problem with lifetime bureaucrats is that they often coerce people beyond reasonable or legally justified limits. Flynn, who is no angel, just got a get-out-of-jail-free-card because of bureaucrats deciding that they WERE the law.

Where this will get murky is...the law with regard to national emergencies. I'm not sure what that is.
But inevitably, you will have some fck declaring that it is his or her constitutional right to roam freely infecting people and not be hassled about doing so, because the constitution does not have a specific clause with specific wording that says he or she cannot. And some liaryer will enthusiastically make the case for it, but I suspect that it will be proven wrong. Amongst other things, "promote the general welfare" has a broad interpretation.

Pandemics are messy disruptions..


I have not gotten to this podcast yet. I'm still on the early middle ages podcast, but it might help clear up some incorrect assumptions.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/constitutional-law/id387940173

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EH, John,
This Bill is nothing but another big Social Program as if we don't already have enough. It's like somebody getting a Research Grant to study some obscure thing and writing a report. Then if they can get enough congressman to sign on to it they pass another spending bill that we don't need. More Welfare in my book. We don't need it.


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Yes!,
Good post 90 DB. Not sure but I think the Soviet Union still owes the U.S. for the Lend Lease Program from WW2. Today the U.S. Taxpayer is funding the Welfare for the whole world in the guise of Foreign Aid, The United Nations, NATO, Etc, Etc, Etc.


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Ray

Nothing is that simple.

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Marty, Well, the constitution has to be edited and added to as time goes along. It wasn't written during or around a time with a pandemic, so it's a bit like The Bible, where some fundamentalists believe if something is not in a the Bible then it's evil.

There was nothing about smoking in the constitution but we have made it illegal to smoke in public placrs, even though some say it violates smokers constitutional rights.

So if somebody thinks they have a right to have corona virus and do and go as they please, they just need to look at smoking.

The constitution at some point has to be revised, it's a way different world, the internet alone creates a whole new set of ethical and legal questions, so does technology and big brother.

Really, a quarantine period is a lot easier to do than asking smokers to smoke away from people forever, but so far it's been done and working.

That said this bill is non sense

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Bob this is exactly why I have a great deal of respect for the US plus there is lots to like about "you". I remember Sinclair's broadcast when he said it and it definitely resonated here in Canada. I was in high school at the time and it became a hot topic in our history class.

But as a friend and neighbour, I get frustrated when "you" wrap yourself in your flag and refuse to accept common sense solutions to real problems in the name of liberty, and pooh pooh what we say just because "we are not one of you". We DO care and we DO have an objective perspective. And we are both helping each other in these times.

You and I both admire Edmund Burke, a pragmatic conservative who thought a small practical plan was worth more than idealistic pie in the sky plans....this is a practical plan. "You" may not like everything about it, but it does answer and reflect an immediate need.

But as Martin points out, this can definitely be hurt by "mission creep" and anyone opposed to it will construct whatever argument serves their purpose. As they say, "if you want to beat a dog, you can always find a stick. So no issue at all there. Just hope more people than not can see that this is actually good for them

Ray, I figured you would look at the trillion dollar cost and "socialism" inherent it the bill, but as I have pointed out long ago, that ship has sailed long ago...socialism and social programs are all over the US budget...and money is handed out to big business, farmers, individuals....and often based on "horse trading" and lobbying. Not saying it is right, just that is the way the system works. Do agree that another trillion dollars and the huge federal deficit, added to state and municipal deficits is becoming dangerous and could very well be a heavy anchor the economy has to drag along with it. But I am not sure there is a choice here...




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Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
Bob this is exactly why I have a great deal of respect for the US plus there is lots to like about "you". I remember Sinclair's broadcast when he said it and it definitely resonated here in Canada. I was in high school at the time and it became a hot topic in our history class.

But as a friend and neighbour, I get frustrated when "you" wrap yourself in your flag and refuse to accept common sense solutions to real problems in the name of liberty, and pooh pooh what we say just because "we are not one of you". We DO care and we DO have an objective perspective. And we are both helping each other in these times.

You and I both admire Edmund Burke, a pragmatic conservative who thought a small practical plan was worth more than idealistic pie in the sky plans....this is a practical plan. "You" may not like everything about it, but it does answer and reflect an immediate need.

But as Martin points out, this can definitely be hurt by "mission creep" and anyone opposed to it will construct whatever argument serves their purpose. As they say, "if you want to beat a dog, you can always find a stick. So no issue at all there. Just hope more people than not can see that this is actually good for them

Ray, I figured you would look at the trillion dollar cost and "socialism" inherent it the bill, but as I have pointed out long ago, that ship has sailed long ago...socialism and social programs are all over the US budget...and money is handed out to big business, farmers, individuals....and often based on "horse trading" and lobbying. Not saying it is right, just that is the way the system works. Do agree that another trillion dollars and the huge federal deficit, added to state and municipal deficits is becoming dangerous and could very well be a heavy anchor the economy has to drag along with it. But I am not sure there is a choice here...







The excerpt I printed above is incomplete. The actual recorded version by Sinclair references "smug. self-righteous" Canadians. More apropos, I believe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4i3LmR0K74

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John S and Ray.....

Does this video depict the truth?

https://www.facebook.com/vito.antinarella/videos/3110752142303866/

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Eh, Well,
Martin a lot of people who are looking to game the system and put s**t in the game To achieve ends that they are too lazy to work for. But as posted before, there is no free lunch out there and sooner or later the chickens come home to roost. The Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, and Communists want run the country but they want the Conservatives and Republicans to pay for it. Somewhere way back there the peons got the right to vote. Then they elected more peons to congress. Every time somebody stubbed their toe or got the sniffles they run up to congress and got another spending bill passed. However all the freeloaders never had enough money so those elected peons raised taxes until businneses could pay no more and they started leaving to country. Today there are pension funds running out of money and they are complaining to congress to fix it. But again there is not enough money to pay it so guess what? We are heading right back to the 1930's Happy landings.


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Lol, press play, rewind, press play

One thing for sure, well established, there's no free lunch! I was hoping for a tuna sub with the works, minus the pickles

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Such is the state of Western Civilization Ray.
de Tocqueville predicted this even before you or I were born.
With freedom comes the freedom to self destruct.

However my specific question for you is...Does that video depict the truth?
Please don't digress to communists etc and let me know about the video.

Thanks

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Marty unless all you have written about the pandemic bein real and your concern about the white house testing positive, and how you can't understand trumps responses, was that all talk? You believe this clown?

Didn't trump just tell people to wear masks? Trump goes with his instinct and when instinct inevitably fails, then he back tracks

No, a bad economy is not the end for Trump, all he has to do is point to how it was before the epidemic, and how a once in a lifetime pandemic caused it, and then throw in a little blame of obama, point out sleepy joes deficits, and blame China wherever possible.

Banned video....my azz






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And throw more money the peoples way, which I believe he will do....

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Eh,
Couldn't watch the video, Apparently you have to sign up to view it. However I didn't stay at a Motel 6 Last night, I didn't read Tocqueville, Hell, I was Tocqueville in an earlier life! And to top it all off, I have been thru 3 World Wars, Two County Fairs and a uh, a sheep shearing contest !. And there is still no free lunch. Yes, with freedom comes responsibility. Too bad a lot of people have forgotten it.


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Ray is right, I went into subway and asked for a free lunch, and by golly they turned me down. I said well, that's the last time I eat here!

He scratched his head and I walked out.

When Ray says no free lunch he means it

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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Ray is right, I went into subway and asked for a free lunch, and by golly they turned me down. I said well, that's the last time I eat here!

He scratched his head and I walked out.

When Ray says no free lunch he means it


You should have walked behind Subway. There's always plenty of leftovers in the dumpster FD. That's the problem. People wanting a free lunch, expects the good stuff.

John smile

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