JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Really creative use of technology!

These are 4 young producers who use a cellphone video of a noisy door to make a song. The third guys uses NOTHING but the door itself, while the other 3 add instruments etc. This is where music is today. If you don't at least understand and appreciate the creativity going on, not to mention the mastery of current technology, you have no prayer of competing in the music world today. It's not about the genre (electronic in this case) it is about the process and technology.

I am going to start posting stuff I find on YouTube here as well as start back up with my blogs once a week. But check this out and I'll post something more traditional for you to check out next time.

Thanks Brian, that was brilliant and I really enjoyed it. It's quite clear that there is lot of skill involved, and these guys have truly mastered it. I will say though this is very much about process, which is pretty much invisible to the listener. Ultimately, what comes out of the speakers is the important part, and that could be voice and a single instrument captured live in one take, or it could be hours of sound layering, manipulation and processing. What ends up at the ears of the listener defines the greatness.

Just as an aside, when I was in Seville a couple of years back there was an extremely squeaky and spooky sounding door at one of the historic buildings. Fascinated, I recorded it (more for use as a sound effect than a sample), so maybe I should put it on my next track

Musically it doesn’t do anything for me Brian. But, I’m glad to see these young people being creative in a healthy way. I appreciate their technical ability. I’m sure there are opportunities for these kind of tracks in the TV/ film Industry. I wish them success.

John

Creative, like a lot of other art yes, but would I listen to it normally?

Vic

Aw, Humm,
I hate to break it to you folks, but there is a lot of "Junk" hanging in the Lourve. They call it Art!

Hey, come on Ray, at least this activity will keep them from hacking us. I do like the way you cut through the fat.

John

There has been a genre of music called noise art, but you use instruments to make the noise. These are world class musicians that sound like a blob of noise, lol

This for me is no more enjoyable than some of the e!electronica artists out there. But I could see producers appreciating this.

Engineers have been doing things like recording drums in an elevator shaft or putting mics outside and recording what's inside, for years.

LOL Ray, yes, cuts to the quick for sure....but there is no art anywhere in any lourve...it's not even a word. Now if you had said Louvre.....



Kidding aside, it's an excellent way of saying art is subjective. And there have always been experimental artists. It may not be for everyone, but "nonetheless it's art"

Well John,
I see I got your attention. Now that I have it... well never mind. One of these guys will create something, send it to some movie producer and make a gazillion dollars! And here I am sitting in Mudville still trying to find dry land ! There is no justice John.

Well Ray, "what we have here is a failure to communicate". You have simply not been able to reach the right people at the right time with the right music.

I have clients in the movie industry...both on the production and financing end. No one knows how to make a hit. All they know is that for some reason, a movie resonates with an audience. Don't get me wrong, they know compelling stories, production, acting, bankable actors, target demographic etc, but there is some "je ne sais quoi" (I don't know" ) that makes serious money.

When it does, you see sequals..and the key people involved get more work..

There was some tech being floated a number of years back. We talked about it here. Some computer program analyzed music and lyrics of the most popular songs to see what they had in common. Nothing ever came out of it because you cannot duplicate "original art"

Oh another answer is socialized music. You tell Washington you are a singer songwriter, submit samples of your work, and you get "patronage"...just like in days of old when Kings and nobles endowed gifted artists.

Or, as you have always said...write a hit.

My goal is to start creative challenges here. Our group has dwindled sure, but I think we could have a lot of fun with various creative challenges. Working with the same lyric. Using a single line of text to build new songs, forcing people to attempt a foreign genre to them, using tech like we saw above to make a country song or a soundtrack piece etc. etc. etc.

I started with this video because it is so foreign. I think for any of us to stretch our creativity, we need to do divergent things, not for a commercial result, but rather so you can take the new knowledge you have back to your normal stuff.

I look forward to expanding this. I also welcome others sharing creative videos from YouTube with me from lessons to challenges to history etc. (All music related). Let's take back our board and make it about music again.

Anyone interested?

I read the comments. I think many of you missed the point. If they can create something from a noisy door, imagine if you take your country song or folk song or rock song and apply the same level of creativity and technology to not only elevate it sonically but also making it sound commercially viable in today's marketplace.

Don't like their noise? So beat them at their own game. Show us how you can do your thing while making it remotely useful in 2020 commercial applications (and not just background music for an oldies film).

PS: These kids are ALL making 6 figures off their music. The lead guy is making far more than that. There is something to be said to feeding the marketplace with something they want to pay for.

"Don't like their noise? So beat them at their own game. Show us how you can do your thing while making it remotely useful in 2020 commercial applications (and not just background music for an oldies film)" - Brian

Hey Brian, was that a shot?

John

All kidding aside… I could sample the flushing of a toilet into a rhythm track, but that wouldn’t be music. Notice, that these techies are making rhythm tracks with their samples. I think they’re being creative and it’s a positive endeavor. I’m glad they’re making money – but money has never been my goal. Reminds me of a kid I once knew. I ask him what he wanted to do with his life. He told me, “make a lot of money”. Sad ambition.

For me, it’s all about the music. If the Great composers only composed to make money, the World would have lost so much beautiful and inspiring music. So, let’s get real… they’re creative and making a lot of money, but their creations will never last the test of time. And it’s not beautiful music. And… samples are like fads. They only last a short time.

John

Yeah John and the door doesn't even sound like a door any more so what was the reason for using the door.

As a tech experiment it's cool as hell, as a music experiment it would be good for electronica artists maybe.

We have Irwin here who would probably really enjoy this video

No, not a shot, there is actually a market for musicians from the 70's, 80's to send genuine stuff recorded on the gear of the day and using recording gear that ironically many pay thousands to mimic now. As for you, last I checked you had a credit list that would make most musicians weep.

They took simply took a non musical sound challenge and ran with it. Most of their challenges are using nice piano sections or vocals etc. I thought they embraced the challenge which is why I posted it. Could most people (any people?) that post here have come up with something from that starting point? Maybe. I'd imagine you could compete because you already do. But you're the exception of regular posters.

I appreciate that at least some checked it out. I learned a few slick tricks watching it. Do you use a DAW John? If so, which one? I am looking at NI Komplete stuff and either FL Studio (which focuses on pattern sequencing which I used on an old Mac SE with the 9 inch b/w screen and a program called Opcode. That or Ableton seem to be the most popular especially with Komplete.

Brian

Well,
This isn't the first time non musical things were used in recordings. when Red Foley recorded CHATTANOOGA SHOESHINE BOY someone actually slapped their legs to get the pitter patter sound. I understand the guys legs were black and blue by the time they finished. I think washboards and cow bells were sometimes used also. a artist friend of mine actually used two horse shoes they banged together to add to the sound. Don't know what a washboard is? Well it was a bit before our time! Google it.

Years ago I sold a townhouse to a 26 year old guy who was a local quasi-celebrity as a DJ.
One afternoon he let me look over shoulder while he assembled samples on his DAW.
He ended up moving to LA and I dont know what he is doing now.
Nothing that he did on the DAW was all that involved but he was very exacting.
What is in the video featured here looks like an extension of that.

Personally I view it as novelty, gimmicry and click bait...and not all that useful to a songwriter that doesnt sample or even one that does. I think that someone could easily get "lost in the trees" focusing on such details.

However, underlying this thread is the theme of getting with the current world media mechanisms to get your stuff heard. No one who visits this site regularly is a viable candidate to be picked up by a major label or publisher and promoted widely with large bucks behind it. The successes of John S are notable exceptions of someone who frequents here and gets their music heard and accepted and paid for.... in the actual musical business world.

Taking note of that and inspired by it, I have been personally trying to understand Spotify and Spotify playlists and hashtags, etc etc and any and all social media platforms that might give some kind of a shot to an un-financed , unknown , un-considered, un-cared about amateur songwriter such as me... to get my stuff heard...by someone.

So, I would like to suggest that a section be opened up on this forum to seek out and understand such vehicles. The problem with it would be keeping it viable and factual...and not just a place where people with no clue fill it up with repetitive outpourings of "my two cents"
It would be something that I paid attention to.

While on such subjects, I will over step my bounds as a visitor and suggest something else. It was mentioned that the demographic here is old and that the ranks are dwindling. I suspect that one contributor to that is that there are so many sections to sort through and too many of them are pretty much inactive and of no appeal to casual visitors. I suggest trimming them out and getting all of the 1st page stuff down to something that will fit on a single computer screen with an eye towards updating and bringing current as much as possible.

And all of that is "my 2 cents."

Martin

Click bait is a useful thing to have in regards to exposure and getting heard.

I've seen many different ways, I guess this is another way. But I've seen people doing unique covers of modern pop songs...

The hope there is that people searching for say Lady Gaga, end up finding your cover. Then maybe they check your own channel for them to sort through. Compared to how many would have found you without the covers its got to be more. But I've seen other less obvious things like a guy giving commentary on the corona virus, and then sharing links to music, or even having content like retirement planning or real estate buying, and then hitting them with music. It's almost as if they do 99%of the work on the bait, and 1% is the end result the music.

Cause it's hard to bait people with music when nobody cares about your music. Like your using broader ideas to narrow in on your music.

I saw a guy last week who gives obnoxious reviews of top hits of today, makes fun of them like you wouldn't believe,and then has his own music.

It's anything to get attention in an overly saturated medium.

The makers of this video probably make a lot of money and get exposure by posting this video, more than using the technology to make music.

Here is the hard reality.

According to a video on the Spotify site by a Spotify employee, there are 20,000 songs uploaded to Spotify EVERY SINGLE DAY.
That makes the song universe galactic in scale. Any one of us is a needle in a galactic haystack.
If that is not bad enough, most everybody here is too old for viable music business people and consumers to give a second thought.

If anyone here had a truly good song and a really good plan and real money behind a song, their chances of true commerical success are negligible.
If all you have is a shot here and a shot there based on anecdotes...you dont even exist in the music business galaxie.
(That is broadly speaking and not to diminish people like John S who have found a niche in the market and a viable path to a payment.)

So how do you get your chances up from a quintillion to one to a few trillion to one?
That is what I would like to learn more about.

Hey Brian! I do have a Yamaha Motif ES8, but I only use it as a controller for Logic Pro. I use the Ivory Italian Grand samples for recording. Prior to this, I used a Yamaha Grand in a local recording studio. I remember the days I had fun with sampling. My first experience with sampling was from a Moog sampler. I had a lot of fun with it creating some out-of-this-world sounds. All those dials – wow. It didn’t take me long to grow tired of creating sounds. Creating music was so much more exciting to me. So yeah, sampling is fun, but doesn’t do much for me any longer.

Best, John

This looks like the Moog I had...

John

You get paid by being seen in YouTube , not in cash.

When you go on American idol more than likely you will be more famous than, rich. If your goal was ever to get rich even back in the 70's you had a dumb goal manager.

As far as John, I think he falls into the category of being more credited than paid. Unless you get to write a theme song of movie soundtrack, some scoring can pay money if you have a big name.

But maybe John can tell us more?

Theoretically.

In reality...

On YouTube, you get paid by the number of people who click to your video and by how long they watch it. The longer that they watch it, the more they roll past interspersed commercials.

The numbers of clicks that it takes to add up to a canned coke out of a vending machine is substantial.
e.g. If someone has a free Spotify account and listens to one of my posted songs, I am credited .003 cents...I think.

John is an independent musician getting placed in real places. I dont know what kind of scale that puts him on, but amongst the regulars who post in this section currently...that appears more than any of the rest of us.

Yes, I don't mean you make much from YouTube clicks unless you get millions. What imeant was people can hear you and appreciate your music, and possibly go to see you If you play live.

Exposure is the way you get paid today, you can be a very famous YouTube star and not make a dime. You can also parlay the YouTube exposures into spotify clicks and tv or movie use and vica versa

Yes, John has an enviable situation. Never having tried to place I don't know how hard it is, but I know id like to be placed on tv or movies but know it won't pay more than even a day of works money.

Remember legendary musicians don't make money on spotif y or youtube either. They make it live

My point is...
Here on this site, I am suggesting a section that deals with the TANGIBLE REALITIES AND MECHANICS of somehow, some way getting OUR music heard....by someone(s) more. Such a section has no real chance of becoming a stairway to heaven, but I would like to learn and try some of it...as an endeavor unto itself. Passtime, hobby etc.

Hearing what makes real stars rich has lost any interest for me.

Gotcha , well I think in some ways we have that here it's sporadic and in different spots but the topics do come up.

Couldn't hurt. I think though being heard is the most any of us will get. Which is hard enough to achieve. even giving your music away free has no value in a world full of free music.

It's all about attracting a crowd and nothing attracts a crowd, like a crowd.

Truth.

In my particular case (which I think is largely similar to most others here)....

I have recorded some songs that I think are decent.
I have had no trouble getting the songs and their art work vetted by DISTROKID and uploaded to APPLE, AMAZON, SPOTIFY etc.
There are 10 of them total.
As of this moment, my distributor/aggregator DISTROKID owes me $1.56.
That provides me with a TANGIBLE TARGET.
I would like to see if I can do anything at all to affect it upwardly.
A section dedicated to that endeavor here could be a possible source of interest for me and anyone like minded.
Or...it could be a sobering and disheartening testament to the futility of the effort.

hence the suggestion

Yeah I wrote a song about a sports board game about 7 years ago? The creator and owner of the game loved it and their pr staff mentioned it on social media I believe, it was also featured by sports writers in different articles, saying I captured the essence of what the game meant and to check me out

That was exposure. I had people visiting the site I made. I think part of the problem was the exposure led people to listen but they weren't going to buy it just to hear what the writers were talking about. They came to hear it free. I had about 1500 or so unique listens, and 10 people bought it lol. 10 people were willing to buy it even though they could hear it free

I made 10 dollars which I never collected. So I suppose if you exponentially grow it, 15 k listens would have resulted in 100 buys, 150 k 1000 buys and so forth . But it didn't have ability to grow that much

Very niche

Fd (you seem to be the only interested party here,so...)

This showed up in my YouTube feed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IrwhbX1PbA

he found his niche...marketing to people who don't know what to do! But we have that with CD baby.

He's got some ideas. Here's what I know to be true.

Going where everybody else is (reverbnation, soundclick, soundcli ck ) doesn't work because it's just people like your own self.

Think about yourself for a minute. How do you hear a song? Besides coming here, you hear it somewhere usually when not trying to hear it. I hear music in stores, in commercials, on tv and movies, on the radio, when I wasn't looking for anything in particular.

So you have to be where regular people can hear you. Social media and YouTube , and find a way to draw traffic there. I dont know if announcing your release will do the trick, they are not looking for you.

It's not easy. But a basic idea is don't do what everybody else is doing, and be plugging yourself any chance you get.

In general, other musicians don't care about your music.I

The only interest I ever got was from people in a niche group, a sports song got me more attention and listens than any of the serious songs I tried to do.

This same guy appeared in my videos you may like....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hn8R6RihhpI
People are still talking about the 1000 fan model. He describes it right, it's not fans in your reverberation page,but fans willing to pay money.

Problem is nobody wants to spend money on music any more. With the exception of live or streamed performances.

Thanks for posting that link, Marty. I found it very interesting. He seems to make sense with some down to earth ideas and has a good way of putting them across. Incidentally, I'm way ahead of you when it comes to raking it in through streaming with my earnings standing at a towering $5.74. Keep dreaming - one day you could be as successful as that

Well I've totalled more than both of you put together, weighing in at 10 bucks, might actually be more than that I cant remember. One thing was clear, there was a mad demand for my music...

And I did it all without the aid of YouTube or social media.. Don't try this at home Kids

lol