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#1166279 - 07/05/20 11:08 PM Natural Melodies?  
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John W. Selleck Online content
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Hi All,
I've heard all the arguments for melody/music first, and lyric first writing. there are points to each one. I've been told that lyrics dictate the melody/genre/time signature and percussion for songs. I personally believe that many lyrics can fit into many different genres, and some into different time signatures and percussion styles. I am first, and most of all, a lyricist. Once upon a time I played music, everything brass, mediocre at best. I have loved and listened to music, many varieties, all my life. My first experience in songwriting was in '65 with a genius guitar picker and I wrote and he picked, at about the same speed. He ended up in an asylum about a year later from LSD, a waste of a true talent. I didn't write again until 2001.

I have absolutely no clue about composing music, or the theory behind it. When I write, I write by meter, syllables all in their place, not to be jammed together, or rushed so you know what the words are when it is sung. The whole time I am writing, I am hearing the song in my head. When it is finished, I usually sing it to myself a few times to make sure it is singable, then I do a very basic acapella recording of it and listen back to it a few times to see if it feels like what I intended. Sometimes I use Band in a Box, and give it a genre/time signature/BPM/key/artist style; and it will give me back some basic chords that I will sing it to. Sometimes I even do this a few times changing up the critieria and ending up with totally different songs.

When I get together with a co-writer, I give them the option of hearing how I feel the song, or just the lyric. They have chosen different ways, and both have worked at different times. Most of the ones that chose to hear the way I felt it said I had already given the lyrics a melody, and they liked it just the way it was.

So, my question is, can a person just naturally write melody?

PS, This is not in any way meant to put down composers/musicians. I have the greatist respect in the world for what they do, and I know it is beyond me to do it.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166280 - 07/05/20 11:28 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Lol, you've been reading round here.....

First of all, if your lyrics gave them a melody, you wouldn't need them!

Some lyricists like Jim Morrison wrote lyrics and sang them, and then the doors would figure out the music. But Jim was musical even if he didn't play an instrument. Not sure if he played harmonica, maybe.

To answer yourquestion, yes I come up with melodies even as I fall asleep, or just waking up. I started playing guitar and I was always coming up with melodies, on the guitar and singing melodies. They weren't full songs, some were two bars, and it still happens that way. I have hundreds of melodies that I couldn't finish.

The hard part has always been stringing melodies and bits together and to make them into full songs, then trying to find matching lyrics.

But yeah melodies come out of nowhere, the craft is knowing where to go with it

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/05/20 11:30 PM.
#1166282 - 07/06/20 12:10 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Lol, you've been reading round here.....

First of all, if your lyrics gave them a melody, you wouldn't need them!

Some lyricists like Jim Morrison wrote lyrics and sang them, and then the doors would figure out the music. But Jim was musical even if he didn't play an instrument. Not sure if he played harmonica, maybe.

To answer yourquestion, yes I come up with melodies even as I fall asleep, or just waking up. I started playing guitar and I was always coming up with melodies, on the guitar and singing melodies. They weren't full songs, some were two bars, and it still happens that way. I have hundreds of melodies that I couldn't finish.

The hard part has always been stringing melodies and bits together and to make them into full songs, then trying to find matching lyrics.

But yeah melodies come out of nowhere, the craft is knowing where to go with it


Thanks for the response.

I'e been around different songwriting sites for quite a while.

I will always need musicians and studio guys, and producers, and all the rest because I know I can't do it on my own.

I have some lyrics I can't finish, but they are on file, and I revisit them form time to time to see if inspiration, my muse, comes to visit. And my muse chooses to visit me, and sometimes wakes me from a sound sleep with an idea, or almost a full blown lyric waiting to be put down.

My hardest part, especially since I can't afford studio, and musician time anymore, is finding co-writers that get the "Feel' of my lyrics.

For me, the melodies seem to come from my lyrics and sometimes more than one melody, in more than one genre/style. When I give critiquesof others lyrics, it is only after I have read, and sung them in my head, and sometimes out loud.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166291 - 07/06/20 01:58 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Morning, John:

It is an "age-old" conundrum... melody versus lyric. After all these years I still believe the melody is usually most important... and the most difficult to imagine. Otherwise, JPF would be filled with melody writers/composers looking for lyricists. I have no facts on file about the percentage of each type but believe it is probably ten to one... meaning, there are about ten lyricists to every one composer or melody creator. Lumped into that mix is the "Hybrid Songwriter who happens to do both. There are Songwriters who also sing and Songwriters who actually perform.

I place those who perform at the top of the heap because they are capable of creating songs (assuming they play at least one viable instrument... such as a guitar or a piano) and can do the "whole schmeer" without needing anything from anyone except a producer, promoter, publisher... etc.

Alas, poor Lyricists tend to swim at the bottom of the pond unless they are among the few with such exceptional talent and a modicum of understanding that lyrics must be modified (usually) to fit a melody in most genres. Most lyricist never understand that necessity and resist or resent changes to their creations. Those who learn that it is a 50/50 proposition, assuming they have imagination and talent, excel in interacting and communicating effectively with those who agree to work with them.

You appear to be a songwriter on the verge of making it big if your reputation continues to grow and your imaginative words and phrases attract "Musicators" as Beth Williams (of JPF fame) called them.

Then there is the type of song being created... either a story to be told... or nothing but blissful themes with words and phrases to be interpreted by the listener as they hear it. Songs come in many colors and variations.

The history of recorded music has changed and will continue to evolve in ways most of us can't imagine. A songwriter or group of collaborators may have all the talent in the world... but without the backing it takes in monetary terms to promote the "product"... it will usually result in a lovely "flash in the pan."

The advent of "streaming" and the regrettable monetary reward to song creators will eventually cause good music to fade for a while... until the "Music Modernization Act" is turned inside-out and revised more favorably, making it worthwhile to go through all that creative effort. It won't stop the hobbyist songwriter from continuing to struggle and eventually succeed or just give it up as one of life's adventures.

I don't have to tell you... you already know that... "If you don't get immense satisfaction out of all the effort... find something better to do." I predict you will keep on writing for years to come.

Regards, ----Dave

#1166297 - 07/06/20 05:32 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Morning, John:

It is an "age-old" conundrum... melody versus lyric. After all these years I still believe the melody is usually most important... and the most difficult to imagine. Otherwise, JPF would be filled with melody writers/composers looking for lyricists. I have no facts on file about the percentage of each type but believe it is probably ten to one... meaning, there are about ten lyricists to every one composer or melody creator. Lumped into that mix is the "Hybrid Songwriter who happens to do both. There are Songwriters who also sing and Songwriters who actually perform.

I place those who perform at the top of the heap because they are capable of creating songs (assuming they play at least one viable instrument... such as a guitar or a piano) and can do the "whole schmeer" without needing anything from anyone except a producer, promoter, publisher... etc.

Alas, poor Lyricists tend to swim at the bottom of the pond unless they are among the few with such exceptional talent and a modicum of understanding that lyrics must be modified (usually) to fit a melody in most genres. Most lyricist never understand that necessity and resist or resent changes to their creations. Those who learn that it is a 50/50 proposition, assuming they have imagination and talent, excel in interacting and communicating effectively with those who agree to work with them.

You appear to be a songwriter on the verge of making it big if your reputation continues to grow and your imaginative words and phrases attract "Musicators" as Beth Williams (of JPF fame) called them.

Then there is the type of song being created... either a story to be told... or nothing but blissful themes with words and phrases to be interpreted by the listener as they hear it. Songs come in many colors and variations.

The history of recorded music has changed and will continue to evolve in ways most of us can't imagine. A songwriter or group of collaborators may have all the talent in the world... but without the backing it takes in monetary terms to promote the "product"... it will usually result in a lovely "flash in the pan."

The advent of "streaming" and the regrettable monetary reward to song creators will eventually cause good music to fade for a while... until the "Music Modernization Act" is turned inside-out and revised more favorably, making it worthwhile to go through all that creative effort. It won't stop the hobbyist songwriter from continuing to struggle and eventually succeed or just give it up as one of life's adventures.

I don't have to tell you... you already know that... "If you don't get immense satisfaction out of all the effort... find something better to do." I predict you will keep on writing for years to come.

Regards, ----Dave


Hi Dave,
There's lots of wisdom in thos words. I really wish I could do the whole schmeer, but unless I spend a whole lot of time learning all the ins and outs of my favorite DAW, Band in a Box, I don't ever see that happening.

The 50/50 is the hardest part of any co-writing proposition. Both need to understand the other. Many lyricists will get downright stubborn, and some of us only do when the changes really effect the meaning or feel of a song. That's why I do my acapella recordings, but to make sure the song is singable, and to give any co-writer a feel for what I'm looking for. And sometimes my co-writers come back with a different feel, even a different genre, but with the same meaning behind the song and I say let 'er rip. There are also songs I am willing to change a lot of things in, and some that are near and dear to my heart that I don't. I am learning, quickly, to let my co-writers know which are which.
My newest co-writer took "You Shine' and brought it back to me with exactly the feel I wanted without only the lyric in hand.

Thanks you for your confidence. I have always believed I have talent as a lyricist. I am beginning to believe I have talent as a singer and a songwriter. I am to old to ever become a paid singer but that doesn't stop me from singing. I also know that if I never make another dime off of my efforts, they have, and will continue, to bring me joy.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166316 - 07/07/20 10:52 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Having a singable lyric isnt the same thing as having a great melody.

Just cause the lyricist thinks his or her lyric can easily be sung, that doesn't mean a great melody will be born. It's easier to come up with "A" melody when the lyric is simple and metered well, but if ten composers all tried to come up with a melody, you'd get ten different melodies, some of which would be good, others ok, others bad.

And if I was a lyrics only person, I wouldn't tell the composer anything, assume they are better than me at melody, he let them find it. Cause if I could write melody id be writing it.

The other thing is melody is one part , but there's also arrangement and matching melody with lyric, and production. sound is a completely different thing too, and the singer is another thing altogether

I knew a producer who was an absolute genius at bringing a song to the top level, absolute genius. Played any instrument greatly, could record great and create soundscapes out of songs. An arranging savant.

Two things he couldnt do, one was write songs, melody or lyric, and sing. I remember playing him a song in his controll room on his acoustic and he's like man, I wish i could do that....lol.

I'm like huh, a guy who has produced Tommy James, among others, does jingles for manny companies and does recording fixes for many companies is saying I wish I could do that?. I'm like dude no you don't get any more wishes.

But melody is just another part of it. Copyright only protects melody and lyric, that's a song. But if the chords aren't interesting or work, how good is the melody gonna be.

It's like a finished song has so many factors, collabing becomes weird. Is it collabing or is it hiring a team of workers.


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/07/20 11:06 AM.
#1166337 - 07/07/20 06:39 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Having a singable lyric isnt the same thing as having a great melody.

Just cause the lyricist thinks his or her lyric can easily be sung, that doesn't mean a great melody will be born. It's easier to come up with "A" melody when the lyric is simple and metered well, but if ten composers all tried to come up with a melody, you'd get ten different melodies, some of which would be good, others ok, others bad.

And if I was a lyrics only person, I wouldn't tell the composer anything, assume they are better than me at melody, he let them find it. Cause if I could write melody id be writing it.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
That's the reason for this whole thread. I have worked with various co-writers and have made the same offer to all of them, with or without the acapella for feel, not to suggest a melody. The ones that took the acapella all came back to me and said I was already singing a melody that they really liked and would use to put music to it. So the question, "Natural Melodies", was born.

I have never suggested I was smarter, or could do what composers, musicians, or studio people do. I am grateful to them for bringing my lyrics to life.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166341 - 07/07/20 07:45 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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No I know you weren't being antagonistic. But I have seen lyrics people say "I always have an idea of how my lyrics should be sung".

That may be true if you are a lyricist/melody writer. But for lyrics people only, you probably don't have a good melody in mind, I mean the melody is not some arbitrary thing that is just a minor hitch in my songs gettiup!

It IS the song.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/07/20 07:47 PM.
#1166343 - 07/07/20 08:31 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
No I know you weren't being antagonistic. But I have seen lyrics people say "I always have an idea of how my lyrics should be sung".

That may be true if you are a lyricist/melody writer. But for lyrics people only, you probably don't have a good melody in mind, I mean the melody is not some arbitrary thing that is just a minor hitch in my songs gettiup!

It IS the song.


Ah, there's the rub, to have an instrumental you don't need lyrics at all, you don't even need percussion, or even a time signature through the whole piece. To have a song, you need lyrics and at least a spoken voice. Like I have said many times, the melodies give my lyrics wings, but people also love to have words they can understand and usually sing along with after hearing them a time or two. How many instrumentals only have you seen in the top 10 of any genre except instrumentals only. Yes, there are many timeless pieces, and yes, I love listening to many instrumentals in many different genres, but they are not songs.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166344 - 07/07/20 08:57 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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no, instrumentals rarely become hits there were many instrumentals that got famous like frankenstein, and many surf records from the 60's But you d never see it now.

People need something to sing, so they can connect with the singer, but they don't necessarily have to be great lyrics, can be bad,. Rarely can a bad melody be a hit, it can happen, sometimes the production can carry it.

Most of my favorite artists are good lyricists as well as music makers. But a large number of songs, even by good lyric writers the lyrics are not known.

There are songs on the radio that I have heard literally hundreds, if not thousands of times, and I don't know the words to them. I know some, but not all.

When I really like a song or artist that's when I start finding out what they have to say. I know every word of many of my favorite songs, but that's only cause I made an effort to learn them.

Aside from the lyrical hook, the music has to grab you first


Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/07/20 08:59 PM.
#1166346 - 07/07/20 09:01 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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All of this collective wisdom and none of has plugged into the money stream. To me, that is the ultimate measure of success in music. Our own J. L. Schick is living proof.

Grind away, my friends... let's make something spectacular! ----Dave

#1166347 - 07/07/20 09:04 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166348 - 07/07/20 09:06 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
All of this collective wisdom and none of has plugged into the money stream. To me, that is the ultimate measure of success in music. Our own J. L. Schick is living proof.

Grind away, my friends... let's make something spectacular! ----Dave


Grinding away...


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166349 - 07/07/20 09:11 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Dave wisdom is all we have, nobody's going to make any real money doing this, which is why we have the time to post here....haha haha

John's not writing instrumental songs, he's writing music for tv and movie spots.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 07/07/20 09:13 PM.
#1166350 - 07/07/20 09:20 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Dave wisdom is all we have, nobody's going to make any real money doing this, which is why we have the time to post here....haha haha

John's not writing instrumental songs, he's writing music for tv and movie spots.


He's found his niche and he's good at it. i applaud!


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166351 - 07/07/20 09:21 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Yes i want to get into it too. Good on him

But that's not what we were discussing

#1166354 - 07/07/20 09:57 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Dave Rice Online content
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You win! We know nothing!

#1166357 - 07/07/20 10:01 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Speak for yourself Dave

#1166359 - 07/07/20 10:05 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
You win! We know nothing!

I'm a man, i know it all, except when it comes to women.
OK, I'm back on topic.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1166379 - 07/08/20 09:34 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Good things happen when people work together for common goals. I'm glad you are "revved and ready" John.

I have a catalog to clean up, a foundation to establish and a funeral to plan. Wish I could join you.

All the best, ----Dave

#1166394 - 07/08/20 05:42 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Dave Rice]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Rice
Good things happen when people work together for common goals. I'm glad you are "revved and ready" John.

I have a catalog to clean up, a foundation to establish and a funeral to plan. Wish I could join you.

All the best, ----Dave

Thanks Dave,
You sound like your plate is too full too. Hope everything goes well.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167070 - 07/28/20 12:17 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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John,

An interesting topic and an interesting thread. As someone who writes his own songs (both lyrics and music), who puts others’ lyrics to song, and who puts lyrics to others’ songs, I’ll offer up a few thoughts . . . with the caveat that I often give: that music is subjective, that there are no rules, and that everyone works differently to equally great ends.

1. As to “I've been told that lyrics dictate the melody/genre/time signature and percussion for songs”: I’d say, “No”. Lyrics by themselves don’t “dictate” any of those things . . . although certainly the subject matter of the song may strongly influence the direction the musician goes. That is, some lyrics strike you as being “county” and others as “rock”. But I don’t believe the lyric demands one or the other. Based on experience, I think I’ve surprised some of the lyricists I’ve worked with as to the direction I went with their lyrics musically. I’m sure I’m not alone in that regard. Bottom line, if the lyrics are written first, the melody will almost always demand a change and are rarely limiting as to what the song may be.

2. You say, “I personally believe that many lyrics can fit into many different genres”: YES, absolutely agree. And that’s the beauty of music. Understanding though that the lyrics—again if written first—may have to change to fit the genre and melody.

3. It’s interesting that you write: “I have absolutely no clue about composing music, or the theory behind it” but then go on to say, “The whole time I am writing, I am hearing the song in my head.” You say you have no experience composing music, and yet you write to a melody—the song you are hearing. There’s a lot to explore here, but I’d simply say this: You don’t need to have a degree in music theory to write a compelling song . . . just a good ear and feel to what folks want to hear. Actually, I’ll amend that . . . just a good ear and feel to what YOU want to hear . . . because chances are what you want to hear is exactly what others are longing to hear as well. And lastly, the fact that you have some melody in mind—“I usually sing it to myself a few times to make sure it is singable”—suggests to me you have more than meter and syllables in mind. That’s a good thing, IMHO.

4. As for your ultimate question, conceding the answer is subjective, I’d say “NO,” you can’t naturally write melody. It goes to your point of why lyrics can often be used in different genres, and with different melodies—the lyric itself is not limiting. If you are writing absent a melody, you are writing verse—poetry—that depending on how it’s written may be adaptable to song. In contrast, it’s only fair to note that some melodies simply aren’t receptive to lyrics. Music and lyrics are a partnership, each contributing to and enhancing the other—and sometimes demanding compromise to be something special.

Just the thoughts of an amateur, for what little they are worth.

My best you,

Deej

#1167071 - 07/28/20 02:14 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Deej56]  
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Originally Posted by Deej56
John,

An interesting topic and an interesting thread. As someone who writes his own songs (both lyrics and music), who puts others’ lyrics to song, and who puts lyrics to others’ songs, I’ll offer up a few thoughts . . . with the caveat that I often give: that music is subjective, that there are no rules, and that everyone works differently to equally great ends.

1. As to “I've been told that lyrics dictate the melody/genre/time signature and percussion for songs”: I’d say, “No”. Lyrics by themselves don’t “dictate” any of those things . . . although certainly the subject matter of the song may strongly influence the direction the musician goes. That is, some lyrics strike you as being “county” and others as “rock”. But I don’t believe the lyric demands one or the other. Based on experience, I think I’ve surprised some of the lyricists I’ve worked with as to the direction I went with their lyrics musically. I’m sure I’m not alone in that regard. Bottom line, if the lyrics are written first, the melody will almost always demand a change and are rarely limiting as to what the song may be.

2. You say, “I personally believe that many lyrics can fit into many different genres”: YES, absolutely agree. And that’s the beauty of music. Understanding though that the lyrics—again if written first—may have to change to fit the genre and melody.

3. It’s interesting that you write: “I have absolutely no clue about composing music, or the theory behind it” but then go on to say, “The whole time I am writing, I am hearing the song in my head.” You say you have no experience composing music, and yet you write to a melody—the song you are hearing. There’s a lot to explore here, but I’d simply say this: You don’t need to have a degree in music theory to write a compelling song . . . just a good ear and feel to what folks want to hear. Actually, I’ll amend that . . . just a good ear and feel to what YOU want to hear . . . because chances are what you want to hear is exactly what others are longing to hear as well. And lastly, the fact that you have some melody in mind—“I usually sing it to myself a few times to make sure it is singable”—suggests to me you have more than meter and syllables in mind. That’s a good thing, IMHO.

4. As for your ultimate question, conceding the answer is subjective, I’d say “NO,” you can’t naturally write melody. It goes to your point of why lyrics can often be used in different genres, and with different melodies—the lyric itself is not limiting. If you are writing absent a melody, you are writing verse—poetry—that depending on how it’s written may be adaptable to song. In contrast, it’s only fair to note that some melodies simply aren’t receptive to lyrics. Music and lyrics are a partnership, each contributing to and enhancing the other—and sometimes demanding compromise to be something special.

Just the thoughts of an amateur, for what little they are worth.

My best you,

Deej


Hi Deej,

Thanks for the well thought out and detailed answer. I'll go straight to 4. To my way of thinking, my way of "Writing"/making melodies, either comes naturally, or is learned. Since I started this I have actually been leaning a little more toward the learned, but not in the normal way that composers learn to write. I think it may be "Ear" learning, in that it is learned from hearing so much music in my lifetime, and storing it away in that mysterious thing we call the brain. But how many children do we see/hear, walking around singing nonsensical words to melodies they can't have heard?
As for genres, the song I just posted on the MP3 board is a great example. It is "Isn't it Grand". When I wrote it, I was hearing a Norah Jones style soft jazz tune. Simon Kay turned it into a Tango, and it could easily have gone pop. Surprises are wonderful. But I do write a lot of songs I would be surprised if they went anything but pure country. LOL!


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167202 - 08/01/20 12:14 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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I wanted to be a singer at first. It seemed to be the music that represented the singing. Often the beat first, hook and riff second.
When I get something that represents the song in my head I hear some kind of melody and what sounds much more dynamic than I can lay to a recording. Much of my idea of my vision is to try to get what sounds the most that is in my head.
That may not make that better to the listeners in itself, but at least there is a reference point.


At Soundclick:
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468037

Videos at youtube (Ads, editing film, and instrumental song docomenteries):
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGZj1g-Fb0HSN4PtzegjzIA
#1167256 - 08/03/20 09:22 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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"I've been told that lyrics dictate the melody/genre/time signature and percussion for songs" - John Selleck

I'd say the lyrics do guide the composer's direction. Very much so with phrasing and note duration. And yes, the content of the lyrics will send me in mood directions, i.e., major / minor key and even the notes that are chosen. I'll wrap myself in the lyrics and each note will be directed at the feelings I'm experiencing from the lyrics. So yes, the lyrics do dictate the direction of the music and melody.

Best, John wink

#1167288 - 08/03/20 04:31 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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The lyrics do dictate all that, if they are written first.

How else can you write a song using the said lyrics, without allowing them to dictate how the song goes?

If you write the melody first, then the melody dictates how the lyrics go, and it's much harder to write lyrics to it.

I haven't seen many lyricists who are able to write lyrics to a set melody or even a music track. I've seen some pretty good lyricist not able to do it well. It's hard for me too. Almost never do you get a great lyric out of tracing the melody

My best comes when they both are created at the same time, and some editing later

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/03/20 04:45 PM.
#1167291 - 08/03/20 05:23 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John Lawrence Schick]  
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence Schick
"I've been told that lyrics dictate the melody/genre/time signature and percussion for songs" - John Selleck

I'd say the lyrics do guide the composer's direction. Very much so with phrasing and note duration. And yes, the content of the lyrics will send me in mood directions, i.e., major / minor key and even the notes that are chosen. I'll wrap myself in the lyrics and each note will be directed at the feelings I'm experiencing from the lyrics. So yes, the lyrics do dictate the direction of the music and melody.

Best, John wink


Hi John,
I didn't say they don't guide the direction, of course they do, to a certain extent. I said they don't dictate. Dictate means absolute control. And yes, words will determine length of notes, phrasing, and feel. But you can have a bunch of different composers giving a bunch of different feels from the same lyric. The genre the lyric is put to also guides the music that is put to the lyric. You can also have a different number of notes and lengths from a one syllable word.
So truly, they can guide, but I don't see them forcing a certain chording, melody, percussion, and even BPM for any one lyric.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167298 - 08/03/20 08:11 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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I agree with John S. Lyrics don't dictate melody, but they can suggest it. Carroll's lyrics often have that effect on me. Maybe some people just have a feeling for it that they have developed through practice.

Good lyricists know that it's not just the meaning of the words that counts. It's also not just the imagery you might try to create. There is "music" in words themselves and the way they are arranged - assonance, alliteration, repetition, just sounding good together. Bad lyricists don't get this.

Think of nursery rhymes. Nobody would say these lines are great art:
"Ring a ring a rosie
A pocketful of posie"
But people are still singing them centuries later, because they are fun to sing, independently of meaning. The repeated "r" sound, the long "o" in rosie and posie. In that particular sense, they are a better lyric than a lot of what is posted here and elsewhere.

And of course, there's "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious." smile

#1167300 - 08/03/20 09:13 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Looked to me JLS said they DO dictate the melody.

They would have to if somebody wrote a lyric and gave them to you to write music to it, just by looking at them it has to be.

My point was it works the opposite if the music/melody is written first and given to a lyricist to write lyrics. Again, the music would have to dictate if it came first.

Point was should somebody who deals in words dictate how music should be written? Rare people like Bernie Taupin could but he was a musician and singer.

Songs can and have been written many ways, but I think if looking for a great melody it's hard to do by following a lyric that's evenly metered with four lines, two lines for a pre chorus and four lines for the chorus.

How are you getting a unique melody and song that way?

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/03/20 09:17 PM.
#1167301 - 08/03/20 09:42 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Looked to me JLS said they DO dictate the melody.

They would have to if somebody wrote a lyric and gave them to you to write music to it, just by looking at them it has to be.

My point was it works the opposite if the music/melody is written first and given to a lyricist to write lyrics. Again, the music would have to dictate if it came first.

Point was should somebody who deals in words dictate how music should be written? Rare people like Bernie Taupin could but he was a musician and singer.

Songs can and have been written many ways, but I think if looking for a great melody it's hard to do by following a lyric that's evenly metered with four lines, two lines for a pre chorus and four lines for the chorus.

How are you getting a unique melody and song that way?


I never said the lyricist should be able to dictate how the music must be written. I'm not that naive.

Dictate: Verb- lay down authoritatively; prescribe. "the tsar's attempts to dictate policy"
Noun- an order or principle that must be obeyed.

I think if the melody came first you can put many different words to the same music.
I think if the lyric came first you can put many different melodies to it.

The melody, or the lyric can guide the other, but I can't see how it would make either force the other into a certain box.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167303 - 08/03/20 09:55 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Looked to me JLS said they DO dictate the melody.

They would have to if somebody wrote a lyric and gave them to you to write music to it, just by looking at them it has to be.

My point was it works the opposite if the music/melody is written first and given to a lyricist to write lyrics. Again, the music would have to dictate if it came first.

Point was should somebody who deals in words dictate how music should be written? Rare people like Bernie Taupin could but he was a musician and singer.

Songs can and have been written many ways, but I think if looking for a great melody it's hard to do by following a lyric that's evenly metered with four lines, two lines for a pre chorus and four lines for the chorus.

How are you getting a unique melody and song that way?


I was agreeing with John S, not JLS. Too many Johns smile

I totally agree with you about the poor prospects for arriving at a great melody "by following a lyric that's evenly metered with four lines, two lines for a pre-chorus and four lines for the chorus." I have got into virtual fist fights with people about the importance of counting syllables - it's a great idea if blandness is your aim. Both language and music have pauses, silences, places where they change pace. Counting syllables takes no account of that. That's where creating melody and lyric together is an advantage for those who can do it.

Consider the demo farms who put music to people's lyrics for a fee. It's easy to put a melody of sorts to just about anything just by picking up a guitar and speaking over chords. A good melody is a bit trickier.

#1167304 - 08/03/20 10:18 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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I agree, mainly conversational lyrics are the closest thing to melody suggesting. Cause conversations have rhythms and character and have some emotional context.

But I think overall, most of the greatest songs of all time would not have happened if the lyrics were written first.

Take yesterday for example...

No way somebody sits there and with a pen, writes these words without knowing the melody. Just the pause after yesterday, indicates the writer knows yesterday is the center word, which springs the rest . The tendency would be to make the verse four lines, when it shouldn't be balanced, because the thought is not balanced, it's an uneven feeling.

And the the tendency also would be to put more words in there to make It look better on paper. If somebody posted these lyrics alone, would anybody be blown away? But as a unit it's one of the greatest songs of all time

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away
Now it looks as though they're here to stay
Oh, I believe in yesterday

Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be
There's a shadow hanging over me
Oh, yesterday came suddenly

Why she had to go I don't know she wouldn't say
I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday






Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/03/20 10:24 PM.
#1167305 - 08/03/20 10:31 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Gavin Sinclair]  
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Originally Posted by Gavin Sinclair


I was agreeing with John S, not JLS. Too many Johns smile

I totally agree with you about the poor prospects for arriving at a great melody "by following a lyric that's evenly metered with four lines, two lines for a pre-chorus and four lines for the chorus." I have got into virtual fist fights with people about the importance of counting syllables - it's a great idea if blandness is your aim. Both language and music have pauses, silences, places where they change pace. Counting syllables takes no account of that. That's where creating melody and lyric together is an advantage for those who can do it.

Consider the demo farms who put music to people's lyrics for a fee. It's easy to put a melody of sorts to just about anything just by picking up a guitar and speaking over chords. A good melody is a bit trickier.


Yup, at least one john in every house, 2 in most restaurants, and many portable ones at construction sites.

No fistfights here. The syllable/meter deal is a conundrum. If you are a lyricist, most co-writers want something they don't have to kill themselves trying to put a melody to. They don't want to have one line with 6 syllables and the next with 15. That said, yes it is a challenge to come up with different structures for V/C/B if the meter is the same. I should know since I write many just that way. How it is done, is by using different chord structure, key, volume, percussion, pauses, note/word holds, BPM, and feel. JQ public has no idea why they like certain songs, just that they do, and many of the songs they like are very simple. For the very distinguishing taste, they probably won't listen to very many of mine, that's OK. For now at least, I'll stick with mostly simple.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167306 - 08/03/20 10:35 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Hi FD,
Just a different way to look at the same lyric:

Yesterday,
All my troubles seemed so far away
Now it looks as though they're here to stay
Oh, I believe in yesterday

Suddenly,
I'm not half the man I used to be
There's a shadow hanging over me
Oh, yesterday came suddenly

Why she had to go
I don't know she wouldn't say
I said something wrong,
now I long for yesterday


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167309 - 08/04/20 12:00 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Either way, such a simply stated lyric becomes epic when sung.

Yesterday is not a line of lyric though

#1167313 - 08/04/20 02:34 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Either way, such a simply stated lyric becomes epic when sung.

Yesterday is not a line of lyric though


Doesn't it cover the same amount of notes/time as the other lines when the pause is added in? And yes, it's a great song.
A chorus using the same idea from one of my lyrics:

But sometimes---------------------- {Chorus
Life gets in the way
The simple facts of livin’
Day to day
When we try to talk it out
Can’t find the words to say
Yeah sometimes
Life gets in the way

[font:Times New Roman][/font]
And no, I'm not comparing that to "Yesterday. Another neat one for timing is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMHZ6vcufLc


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167323 - 08/04/20 09:27 AM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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The word yesterday fits because the melody has three notes, in that one spot
Same thing with suddenly. It occurs nowhere else in the song so it gives it emphasis to those words.

It's doubtful somebody would just write the word yesterday like that as a lyric only person, unless they were really really intuitive, or were musicians just writing the words first.

And try to copy that idea, "Hey let me build around one word like yesterday" chances are it won't be as good. And you won't have that melody or feeling.

I had a song called "significance" long time ago. It started with one word in the same appproach, I wasn't trying to do that it just came out. It wasn't bad, but I didn't realize I borrowed the technique and didn't realize that I wouldn't have written it if I hadn't heard yesterday before.

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/04/20 09:30 AM.
#1167913 - 08/16/20 04:07 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Originally Posted by John W. Selleck
Hi All,
I've heard all the arguments for melody/music first, and lyric first writing. there are points to each one. I've been told that lyrics dictate the melody/genre/time signature and percussion for songs. I personally believe that many lyrics can fit into many different genres, and some into different time signatures and percussion styles. I am first, and most of all, a lyricist. Once upon a time I played music, everything brass, mediocre at best. I have loved and listened to music, many varieties, all my life. My first experience in songwriting was in '65 with a genius guitar picker and I wrote and he picked, at about the same speed. He ended up in an asylum about a year later from LSD, a waste of a true talent. I didn't write again until 2001.

I have absolutely no clue about composing music, or the theory behind it. When I write, I write by meter, syllables all in their place, not to be jammed together, or rushed so you know what the words are when it is sung. The whole time I am writing, I am hearing the song in my head. When it is finished, I usually sing it to myself a few times to make sure it is singable, then I do a very basic acapella recording of it and listen back to it a few times to see if it feels like what I intended. Sometimes I use Band in a Box, and give it a genre/time signature/BPM/key/artist style; and it will give me back some basic chords that I will sing it to. Sometimes I even do this a few times changing up the critieria and ending up with totally different songs.

When I get together with a co-writer, I give them the option of hearing how I feel the song, or just the lyric. They have chosen different ways, and both have worked at different times. Most of the ones that chose to hear the way I felt it said I had already given the lyrics a melody, and they liked it just the way it was.

So, my question is, can a person just naturally write melody?

PS, This is not in any way meant to put down composers/musicians. I have the greatist respect in the world for what they do, and I know it is beyond me to do it.




I'm not sure what you mean by writing a melody 'naturally'? I mean, how does one compose an unnatural melody? Do you mean one that's melodic?

Most songs that are written lyrics first tend to have way too many notes (in my humble opinion:) ) This is because the lyricist cannot anticipate a tight melody (where there are no superflous notes) and won't want to make lyric adapt to the melody in order to maintain melodic integrity.

I'm going to use a famous song as an example, let's take Bacharach's, 'The Look Of Love". For this example, assume the song was never written, and I'm about to compose it, for the first time. This is the kind of fight I get into with lyricists, which is why I don't work with them, because my melodies are terse, I like big note melodies.

So, lyricist hands me the following lyric:

I knew this girl, and when I first met her, it was an instant look of love.

I read the lyric, and the notes hit me in the head, boom, I hear The look.......of love...........

I tell the lyricist, I've got a killer melody, are you willing to adapt the lyric to fit this melody, or must I be forced to use ALL your words?

If he or she says, no you got to use all the words, then the melody I come up with will be melodically as verbose as the lyric is, and probably not be very interesting, melodically. Moreover, since the lyricist is not anticipating 'motif' the lines that follow do not line up perfectly, either.

This is why I find it difficult to work with lyricists, UNLESS they will add lyrics to the melody I compose first OR they are willing to adapt their lyric to fit the melody I come up with. It's one or the other. For me,both are important, but words must defer to the melody, not the other way around. But, that's me. I know, I'm difficult to collaborate with, and a number of lyricists have registered that particular complaint, with me.

Here is an example of one of my songs, where I wrote the melody first. Then I found words to fit the melody. I wrote the melody 4 years before I came up with the final lyric, and there were a number of completely different lyrics before I settled on this one. My sister passed away, and I decided to dedicate the song to her:

https://soundcloud.com/patricklockwood/sister (Sung by San Diego Artist, Jessica Lerner)











Last edited by Pat Hardy; 08/16/20 04:09 PM.
#1167915 - 08/16/20 05:13 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Pat Hardy]  
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Originally Posted by Pat Hardy


I'm not sure what you mean by writing a melody 'naturally'? I mean, how does one compose an unnatural melody? Do you mean one that's melodic?

Most songs that are written lyrics first tend to have way too many notes (in my humble opinion:) ) This is because the lyricist cannot anticipate a tight melody (where there are no superflous notes) and won't want to make lyric adapt to the melody in order to maintain melodic integrity.

I'm going to use a famous song as an example, let's take Bacharach's, 'The Look Of Love". For this example, assume the song was never written, and I'm about to compose it, for the first time. This is the kind of fight I get into with lyricists, which is why I don't work with them, because my melodies are terse, I like big note melodies.

So, lyricist hands me the following lyric:

I knew this girl, and when I first met her, it was an instant look of love.

I read the lyric, and the notes hit me in the head, boom, I hear The look.......of love...........

I tell the lyricist, I've got a killer melody, are you willing to adapt the lyric to fit this melody, or must I be forced to use ALL your words?

If he or she says, no you got to use all the words, then the melody I come up with will be melodically as verbose as the lyric is, and probably not be very interesting, melodically. Moreover, since the lyricist is not anticipating 'motif' the lines that follow do not line up perfectly, either.

This is why I find it difficult to work with lyricists, UNLESS they will add lyrics to the melody I compose first OR they are willing to adapt their lyric to fit the melody I come up with. It's one or the other. For me,both are important, but words must defer to the melody, not the other way around. But, that's me. I know, I'm difficult to collaborate with, and a number of lyricists have registered that particular complaint, with me.

Here is an example of one of my songs, where I wrote the melody first. Then I found words to fit the melody. I wrote the melody 4 years before I came up with the final lyric, and there were a number of completely different lyrics before I settled on this one. My sister passed away, and I decided to dedicate the song to her:

https://soundcloud.com/patricklockwood/sister (Sung by San Diego Artist, Jessica Lerner)



HI Pat,

What I mean, is just by ear, no musical instruments, just letting it flow out of you naturally, as you feel it. That was the question, about someone like me, that is basically untrained. Then somewhere along the way, I realized that the voice is an instrument, and maybe the training it got was listening to so much music over a lifetime.

Your song is beautiful, and wonderfully performed. I also think it has plenty of notes.

I think you would find it very easy to write melodies to most any of my songs because I write them that way. I might not write the exact same number of notes into each verse, but it is always close. I don't even fight over small changes, or sometimes over big ones if they don't effect the meaning of the song, and sometimes if they do, if I can see the reason behind them. I am currently co-writing with 5 musicians because they like my lyrics.

if you'd like to give it a go, I still have 100+ lyrics looking for music. I have over 200 demos now.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167964 - 08/17/20 01:53 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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NASHVILLE, TN
Hello John

To me, Natural is Like a bird song--I know what you mean, though. Write on!

Mackie

#1167968 - 08/17/20 02:24 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Mackie H.]  
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Originally Posted by Mackie H.
Hello John

To me, Natural is Like a bird song--I know what you mean, though. Write on!

Mackie

Hi Mackie,
Great to see you on here again. And thanks!


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167973 - 08/17/20 02:37 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Fdemetrio Online content
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Well I play instruments, but I usually hear a melody in my head, long before I even know what chords I'll use or what the arrangement will sound like.

But I will say that an instinct for melody is developed from knowing music. Usually a melody that comes out of a musician will be better than a melody that comes out of a non musician. They are already trained to hear a good melody and will likely write amore interesting developed melody.

Just about anyone can come up with a very basic generic melody. Kids hum tunes all the time. They are writing melodies and not even aware. But I don't know if they commercially viable...lol

#1167974 - 08/17/20 02:50 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: Fdemetrio]  
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Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Well I play instruments, but I usually hear a melody in my head, long before I even know what chords I'll use or what the arrangement will sound like.

But I will say that an instinct for melody is developed from knowing music. Usually a melody that comes out of a musician will be better than a melody that comes out of a non musician. They are already trained to hear a good melody and will likely write amore interesting developed melody.

Just about anyone can come up with a very basic generic melody. Kids hum tunes all the time. They are writing melodies and not even aware. But I don't know if they commercially viable...lol




So you are saying that a lifetime of listening to hundreds of thousands of beautiful melodies can't give a person who isn't a trained musician an idea of what a beautiful melody should be?


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1167995 - 08/17/20 03:57 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Listening to music, lots of different kinds is THE most important thing for any musician and composer, songwriter, arranger, singer , band but there's active and passive listening.

My dad listened to tons of music, country, big band, doo woop, fifties, folk , when id play him something I learned or let him hear a song and id ask him, what do you think of that? He'd say...ahh you're asking the wrong guy I couldn't tell if that was any good. My mother would smile and say that's very nice ....

You have to come at it from a musicians point of view.

Id be happy to hear your melodies????

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/17/20 03:59 PM.
#1168009 - 08/17/20 06:26 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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Very simple, listen to songs from links below my name. Anything not listed as a co-write are mine. But I doubt you will like them as I think you will prejudge, knowing I am not really trained.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1168027 - 08/17/20 09:31 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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No, I wouldn't be predjudice, I actually miss the days when songs were presented as guitar and vocal or piano and vocal nothing else, and the emphasis wasn't on the performance, but I understand everything is all inextricably linked, so it all matters, including the sound.

Those melodies are ok, I sometimes forget who I'm speaking with in regards to what they listen to. Many are older folks who like old school country and a simple folk type melody works.

I'm in the pop/rock world where especially in a ballad you need a super melody.

Your stand alone melodies are not bad and get the job done for what your trying to do. But I think we're looking at it from different worlds.

But you are in nj where in nj are you?

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/17/20 09:33 PM.
#1168028 - 08/17/20 10:41 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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I'm not in NJ. I am currently in Saipan, waiting for The Philippines to reopen. Most of my work is country (in all it's faces except a couple of the new ones) and Christian, but I have written jazz, blues, a little pop, a rock opera I have a co-writer working on, an Irish jig, and am messing with a couple of reggae based songs now.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes
#1168035 - 08/17/20 11:34 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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So all this about American current events and your not even in the us? And see Philippines is blocked down, it's not an American conspiracy.

Good luck with the tunes......

Last edited by Fdemetrio; 08/17/20 11:35 PM.
#1168040 - 08/17/20 11:57 PM Re: Natural Melodies? [Re: John W. Selleck]  
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I'm not in America for financial, and other reasons, but I will be an American till I die, and concerned about things that effect, my family, extended family, and innocents. I never said it was an American conspiracy, it may be a Chinese one, but it is being used as a ploy to try to get Trump out of the White House. But that's for the other thread.

Thanks.


Have a goodun,

John W. Selleck BMI Songwriter
A day without learning is a day lost forever.

www.soundclick.com/johnsings
www.soundclick.com/johnwselleck
www.soundclick.com/johnselleck
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandID=1468958 For Selleck/Kay co-writes

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