Who's Online Now
8 members (VNORTH2, Sunset Poet, bennash, Gary E. Andrews, Everett Adams, couchgrouch, Fdemetrio, Perry Neal Crawford), 4,124 guests, and 285 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Register Today!
Welcome to the Just Plain Folks forums! You are currently viewing our forums as a Guest which gives you limited access to most of our discussions and to other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post and respond to topics, communicate privately with our users (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free; so please join our community today!
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
What's Going On
Backhand Blue
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/29/24 07:48 AM
Does Billy Joel belong in top 10?
by Fdemetrio - 03/28/24 11:10 PM
It Is Done
by Sunset Poet - 03/28/24 07:44 PM
Music Industry Summit, Athens Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/28/24 06:14 PM
Can you save me from me
by VNORTH2 - 03/28/24 03:11 PM
As human as yo
by ckiphen - 03/28/24 09:55 AM
Fox News Reports Stunning Archeological Discovery.
by couchgrouch - 03/27/24 08:02 PM
Wasting My Time
by David Gill - 03/27/24 07:42 AM
Song available
by JAPOV - 03/26/24 03:38 PM
YELLIN AT CLOUDS
by David Gill - 03/26/24 03:20 PM
"Reliving" the great Lou Rawls!
by Brian Austin Whitney - 03/26/24 01:49 PM
::: The Best In My Life :::
by Bill Draper - 03/26/24 01:32 PM
The show must go on
by ckiphen - 03/26/24 09:06 AM
NYC Motel 1972
by rpirone - 03/26/24 12:43 AM
usic Industry Summitt
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 11:32 PM
The Rant Arena
by JAPOV - 03/25/24 07:39 PM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Song available
by Raymond Byabazaire - 03/25/24 11:55 AM
Lancaster Festival, Lancaster, Ohio
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/25/24 10:51 AM
Wasting my time
by Rob B. - 03/25/24 03:45 AM
Tom Waits.. What's he building
by Fdemetrio - 03/25/24 12:09 AM
Rick Beato, bad lyrics
by Fdemetrio - 03/24/24 11:23 PM
Inspirational Videos Post Them Here
by Sunset Poet - 03/24/24 11:27 AM
Used to take a Genius to Mix
by Fdemetrio - 03/23/24 11:00 AM
"Broken Places"
by Gary E. Andrews - 03/22/24 07:45 PM
All You Are Is A Lie
by Sunset Poet - 03/22/24 06:55 PM
Pour Choices
by Gavin Sinclair - 03/22/24 05:29 PM
Billy's 30 year overdue song.
by Fdemetrio - 03/22/24 01:30 PM
Top Posters
Calvin 19,857
Travis david 12,264
Kevin Emmrich 10,941
Jean Bullock 10,330
Kaley Willow 10,240
Two Singers 9,649
Joice Marie 9,186
Mackie H. 9,003
glynda 8,683
Mike Dunbar 8,574
Tricia Baker 8,318
couchgrouch 8,160
Colin Ward 7,911
Corey 7,357
Vicarn 6,916
Mark Kaufman 6,589
ben willis 6,114
Lynn Orloff 5,788
Louis 5,725
Linda Sings 5,608
KimberlyinNC 5,210
Fdemetrio 4,990
Neil Cotton 4,909
Derek Hines 4,893
DonnaMarilyn 4,670
Blake Hill 4,528
Bob Cushing 4,389
Roy Cooper 4,271
Bill Osofsky 4,199
Tom Shea 4,195
Cindy Miller 4,178
TamsNumber4 4,171
MFB III 4,143
Sunset Poet 4,126
nightengale 4,096
E Swartz 3,985
JAPOV 3,973
beechnut79 3,878
Caroline 3,865
Kolstad 3,845
Dan Sullivan 3,710
Dottie 3,427
joewatt 3,411
Bill Cooper 3,279
John Hoffman 3,199
Skip Johnson 3,027
Pam Hurley 3,007
Terry G 3,005
Nigel Quin 2,891
PopTodd 2,890
Harriet Ames 2,870
MidniteBob 2,761
Nelson 2,616
Tom Tracy 2,558
Jerry Jakala 2,524
Al Alvarez 2,499
Eric Thome 2,448
Hummingbird 2,401
Stan Loh 2,263
Sam Wilson 2,246
Wendy D 2,235
Judy Hollier 2,232
Erica Ellis 2,202
maccharles 2,134
TrumanCoyote 2,096
Marty Helly 2,041
DukeWill 2,002
floyd jane 1,985
Clint Anglin 1,904
cindyrella 1,888
David Wright 1,866
Clairejeanne 1,851
Cindy LaRosa 1,824
Ronald Boyt 1,675
Iggy 1,652
Noel Downs 1,633
Rick Heenan 1,608
Cal 1,574
GocartMoz 1,559
Jack Swain 1,554
Pete Larsen 1,537
Ann Tygart 1,529
Tom Breshers 1,487
RogerS 1,481
Tom Franz 1,473
Chuck Crowe 1,441
Ralph Blight 1,440
Rick Norton 1,429
Kenneth Cade 1,429
bholt 1,411
Letha Allen 1,409
in2piano 1,404
Stan Simons 1,402
Deej56 1,385
mattbanx 1,384
Jen Shaner 1,373
Charlie Wong 1,347
KevinP 1,324
Vondelle 1,316
Tom W. 1,313
Jan Petter 1,301
scottandrew 1,294
lane1777 1,280
Gerry 1,280
DakLander 1,265
IronKnee 1,262
PeteG 1,242
Ian Ferrin 1,235
Glen King 1,214
VNORTH2 1,212
IdeaGuy 1,209
AaronAuthier 1,177
summeoyo 1,174
Diane Ewing 1,162
ckiphen 1,120
joro 1,082
BobbyJoe 1,075
S.DEE 1,040
yann 1,037
9ne 1,035
David Gill 1,032
Tony A 1,016
argo 986
peaden 984
90 dB 964
Wolvman 960
Jak Kelly 912
krtinberg 890
Drifter 886
Petra 883
RJC 845
Brenda152 840
Nadia 829
ant 798
Juan 797
TKO 784
Dayson 781
frahmes 781
bennash 763
teletwang 762
Andy K 750
Andy Kemp 749
tbryson 737
Jackie444 731
Irwin 720
3daveyO3 704
Dixie 701
Joy Boy 695
Pat Hardy 692
Knute 686
Lee Arten 678
Moosesong 668
Katziis 652
R.T.MOORE 638
quality 637
CG King 622
douglas 621
R&M 614
Mel 614
NaomiSue 601
Shandy 590
Ria 587
TAMERA64 583
qbaum 570
nitepiano 566
pRISCILLA 556
Tink2 553
musica 539
deanbell 528
RobertK 527
BonzaiWag 523
Roderic 522
BB Wilbur 513
goodfolks 499
Zeek 487
Stu 486
Steve P. 481
KathyW 462
allenb 459
MaxG 458
Philjo 454
fanito 448
trush48 448
dmk 442
Rob L 439
arealrush 437
DGR 436
avweek 435
Stephen D 433
Emmy 431
marquez 422
kit 419
Softkrome 417
kyrksongs 415
RRon 408
Laura G. 407
VNORTH 407
Debra 407
eb 406
cuebald 399
EdPerrone 399
Dannyk1 395
Hobart 395
Davyboy49 393
Smile 389
GJShades 387
Alek 386
Ezt 384
tone 380
Marla 380
Ann_F 379
iggyiggy 378
coalminer 377
java 374
ddreuter 371
spidey 371
sweetsong 370
danny 367
Rob B. 364
Jim Ryan 360
papaG 353
Z - man 350
JamesDF5 348
John K 348
Jaden 344
TheBaz 340
Steggy 339
leif 339
tonedeaf 336
rickwork 334
Eddie Ray 332
Johnboy 328
Bob Lever 328
Helicon1 327
lucian 326
Muskie 321
kc 319
Z. Mulls 318
ptondreau 313
ONOFFON 312
Chris B. 310
trush 304
ed323 297
Ellen M 294
markus-ky 293
lizzorn 291
nicnac49 290
Char 286
ktunes 285
Top Likes Received
JAPOV 86
VNORTH2 45
bennash 38
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Well,

Last edited by Christine Donovan; 11/08/08 03:25 AM.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,478
Top 200 Poster
Offline
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,478
Co-writers. 'Nuf said.


Kevin Edward Rose
Celtic, Americana, whatever the folk.
Hailed by Performing Songwriter magazine as a "valued subscriber".
More music sold than Elvis and the Beatles combined!*
http://www.KevinEdwardRose.com
http://www.youtube.com/KevinEdwardRose
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Hi Kevin nice to meet you...thanks for the reply...short and sweet!
Hugs

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Top 25 Poster
Offline
Top 25 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
HI Chrsitine!

Wouldn't be a bad idea for them to get all things concerned in writing with each other. (Name of band, gear, cowriters share, gear, etc).

Writing: Suggest equal ownership for those who contributed more than a hiccup on any song. 50/50, or 33/33/33, or,,,you get it!
To try to decipher every note, every line, every chord.....To then have someone I might guess to say, "HE JUST wrote the bridge. so he only gets 17%" kind of nonsense is not going to make for good long term bandmates and friends. If a song does well in the future, like a lottery ticket, ALL the writers should have the same kind of boat! To even think of this now though, is really early, going by the odds. But it's just something to get out of the way early on, rather than when money can turn some greedy as money has a way of getting in the way of friends.

Buddy Holcombe and I had been cowriters since 1978, and just recently stopped collaborating. There were some songs which he did most of the writing, but we still had our 50/50 agreement, (verbal) in place. Same for anything I might have done more than the 50% worth. Didn't matter. I even wrote a song with a friend, which got aired in 48 countries in TV. Buddy then got a third of all the writers and publishing income. We made that other co writer a publisher for that one song. We all had the same funds, and ate at the same diner! smile (Didn't get a truckload of money), but if we had, we already had that first and admendment agreement of all being equals.

For the songs I write now, if anything comes of them, and with any other writer, Bud would share my share. 25/25, with the other writer getting 50%. I do that, for although Buddy and I aren't actively collaborating out of choice by him to retire, our agreement when made was for life, and no matter who wrote what, even if nothing. I learned from him more than he from me, so that is also a secondary explanation, which I don't need to keep our deal. (I just tell that to some who say, "WHAT?!

Those kids have a lot to go through and to learn. They might have limited ideas of the actual workings of the music business. Experience is key, as well as having knowledge. Have your son and whoever else is interested read Don Passman's book. "All you need to know about the music business". Got to know what the lawyers, publishers and labels know, besides publishing and distribution, to hopefully someday oversee what their lawyers are doing. And actually, to get them in the frame of mind of operating as a business, if serious as it sounds.

Most bands don't make enough to feed families, so they should keep that in mind. Same for girlfriends for many reasons for now not to have. Got to get established first, and that takes TIME and WORK around the clock, month after month, year after year, (with girls around them as it is), to maybe sell enough CD's on their own to get some attention for possibly being marketable. "Good" doesn't always mean anything. It's luck after hard work and smart decisions. Even then,,,,90% can't sustain an original band for income for all.

Brian, jump in if you like, as these kids do have a tight sound, and have talent, to at least give a good dose of advice and cautions.

By the way Christine, I listened to your songs too today. Good, nice voice you have. Good feeling. been singing long? Sounds it.

Best of everything to you and your son.

John



Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,478
Top 200 Poster
Offline
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,478
Hi, Christine. Nice to meet you, too.

I know I said, "'Nuf said",but it really wasn't. After thinking about the situation, while I would still consider it a co-write, your son's band mate should realize that one can't copyright a chord progression. If you could, there would only be one I-IV-V pattern song or only one I-vi-IV-V pattern song, etc. There are only so many chord patterns to go around, and I would be really surprised if someone came up with one that has never been done before.

Perhaps the young man should think about just how much of a contribution your son has actually made compared to his own efforts.


Kevin Edward Rose
Celtic, Americana, whatever the folk.
Hailed by Performing Songwriter magazine as a "valued subscriber".
More music sold than Elvis and the Beatles combined!*
http://www.KevinEdwardRose.com
http://www.youtube.com/KevinEdwardRose
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Top 25 Poster
Offline
Top 25 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Kevin, is there one like this?:

C F# Eb Eb Absus E6 Bb7 G7

C F# Eb Eb Absus E6 Bb Bb (Then goes to an Eb for the chorus)

Verse chord progression to our: "Love All There Is".

Find another just like it and I'll rewrite this to make it unique, as I intended it to be, while making sense and being melodic. You can't hear the melody line of course! It's maybe on my soundclick site.

Sorry Christine to jumping back in with another bathing suit on.

John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
Hi Christine

i think the guys in the band need to rent a house together and start growing up...there will be disputes and disagreements about whatever in the course of things.....but they have to be worked out within the band and not subject to parents/girfriends/whoever........if a co-writer of mine (and i have several) ever starts bringing in parents or spouses into our relationship then that will be the end of that co-writing relationship.....thankfully it hasnt happened........but it would be unacceptable to me to end up having to discuss or justify anything to anyone other than the person i am writing with.....and i dont mean to be offensive......i think the band has talent but i think they should be allowed-or forced- to just tighten up as a group and sink or swim...

Tom

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Top 25 Poster
Offline
Top 25 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Great point Tom. Hadn't thought of the obvious.

Guess I've been a parent a long time!

Great point!

John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,478
Top 200 Poster
Offline
Top 200 Poster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,478
Hi, John.

To be honest, I couldn't tell you if there was another song with that progression. There may be one or two songs out there that I haven't heard yet. wink

My point was, you can't copyright a chord progression, and just as the chords are important in a song, so are the melody and lyrics.


Kevin Edward Rose
Celtic, Americana, whatever the folk.
Hailed by Performing Songwriter magazine as a "valued subscriber".
More music sold than Elvis and the Beatles combined!*
http://www.KevinEdwardRose.com
http://www.youtube.com/KevinEdwardRose
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
thanks John


glad you agree


Tom

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,911
Likes: 1
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,911
Likes: 1
All the elements that make up a song are important. If you are familiar with classic rock, you could identify the song Yesterday if someone played the first three notes on a piano, you could identify Take It Easy from hearing the opening chord or two, and you could identify A Hard Day's Night from hearing one chord.

So nobody can downplay the contribution of any part of a successful song.....the chord progression, the lyrics, the melody, the rhythm, and ultimately the performance.



Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Christine,

In Nashville there's a joke that says if you were in the room when the song was written, you get an even split in it. Here, unless there is a written agreement, everyone gets an even split. And, yes, the person who wrote the chords are writing the song. "Louie Louie" would be nothing without the chords...or "You Really Got Me Now," or "Stairway to Heaven," or "Sweet Home Alabama." Can you imagine any of those songs without the chords?

Beyond that, I think Tom's right. In my first real band, some of the guys had parents who were consulting with attorneys. I was the "band leader," wrote the origninal songs, and started the band. But my parents passed away while I was in my teens, so I was on my own. It felt like I was fighting a corporation to get anything done. Needless to say, it was not a good working system. I think it would be better to let the guys feel independent. If they want info, point them our way and let them ask the questions themselves. Nothing wrong with counseling your son, of course, but maybe it's better to do it one on one, not in a public forum. Then he can take your advice or not and deal with the other fellows on an equal footing. I'm not criticizing you here, you're certainly being a good parent, I'm just giving my opinion.

All the Best,
Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Post deleted by Christine Donovan

Last edited by Christine Donovan; 11/07/08 03:02 PM.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
I totally agree with Mike.

I'll add that I've been in many a band in my younger days, and I'm trying to imagine the effect these threads would have on any one of them. I have to say it's like watching a power struggle happening in public...I have to wonder if this is more destructive than helpful. A band is like a 4-way marriage (or more), and mutual trust and communication is essential. Isn't this whole thread sort of like "going rogue"?

Maybe the conflicts would be better resolved as a group...

Sorry, just my honest opinion.

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Post deleted by Christine Donovan

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Post deleted by Christine Donovan

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
xx

Last edited by Christine Donovan; 11/07/08 03:03 PM.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
,,

Last edited by Christine Donovan; 11/07/08 03:03 PM.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
I personally don't feel that way about you, Christine. I'm a parent of teens too.

For the band members reading this, just to reiterate the USUAL way of things, writing contributions are traditionally split evenly...but some agreement about this NEEDS to be clear from the get-go so that you can all sleep at night. Lennon and McCartney shook hands as teens to go 50/50, and it worked out pretty good! smile

I think most bands should search for ways to share and build on their own cohesive, close-knit sense of family. The ones who begin fiercely protecting "my" portion are going solo too early, in my opinion. It's sort of a choice between getting along most of the time or bitching at each other most of the time--that's where these things eventually lead. Work toward unity if you want success. Lyrics alone are a huge contribution to a song...lyrics AND melody seal the deal. Of course he should have equal songwriting credit...why wouldn't he? The original idea sometimes seems more important than later additions and rewrites, but when you decide to call it "Song A", the person who called it that is now also part of the creation process.

Good luck to you all, you are a cool band and Christine is obviously a caring and valuable resource/mentor for you all. Learn to be a group.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,403
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,403
I think I agree with the "live together in a house for a while" recommendation. It does sound like they need to learn to work together better.

When I played with The Dodson Drifters, there were two of us (out of four) who wrote most of the original material. We never cared. Everything written simply became "a Dodson Drifters song," and we introduced it simply as "ours." Oftentimes Jeff the lead guitarist and I would sing each other's stuff just to increase the confusion.,

The thing that needs to be kept in mind is copyright royalties, if you ever see them, are going to be minimal for a long time. The Dodson Drifters made nearly all our money off performing. And as long as that's the case, what does it matter? Your guys are arguing about the shape of a table nobody has.

I think it's worthwhile just to say anything the band does is a collaborative effort by the band as long as the band is together, no matter who wrote what parts. Reinforces the "we're all in this together" thing, and it sounds like they could use that.

joe

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
Christine

with all respect-if i was in that band i would take a vote to kick your son out cause his mother is putting their internal disputes on a internet forum....thats humiliating......you will never get a job in PR thats for sure.....and your son will probaly get a reputation for being a mommas boy and no other band will want to hire him.......yes you care and its your money and all that-but these ADULTS have to live their own lives...you are not in the band so you have no vote about anything in my opinion.....let them work it out......i am sure its tough to let go as a parent but its also necessary.....

Tom

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Top 25 Poster
Offline
Top 25 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
But remember, it was the band member that actually did the wrong, immature thing by plastering his ego on her post. As I agreed to your earlier post about a parent should not get invloved other than info and encouragement, Christine did not post about anything other than wanting info to pass along to her son, who I guess would pass that along to his band. It's the other band member who threw a big unnecessary wrench on here, to which might be a good thing for the whole band to know about, and to get that nipped in the bud before moving on to much more challenging issues a band goes through.

I blame the other band member for stirring up things in public with his band member's mother, ("trying to be clear", which he sure was,,,ouch!) It should have been dealt with a phone call, and just let Christine ask away about any music business questions as it pertains to her son's band.

Ahhh,,,,bands!

John


Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Christine,

I read your thread where you asked "what do you think?" and that's what I answered. If my answer offended you, I'm sorry, but that doesn't change my opinions.

All the Best,
Mike


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1
G
Casual Observer
Offline
Casual Observer
G
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1
John, obviously you didn't read Christine's original post. In her original post she calls the boys young, naive and stupid. So just who is publically discrediting who here? I think the young man only stated the fact that the band works together as a team, which Christine in her words, made it sound like this band would be nothing without her son. Such proffessionalism from a seasoned artist!!!! I seen more coming from the young man than I did her! Maybe your reading her edited post??? Sounding like you may have missed the original one. I expect much more from mature artists in this industry than I do from a new young man starting to get his feet wet.

Mike and Tom...you two couldn't have said it any better!


Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Post deleted by Christine Donovan

Last edited by Christine Donovan; 11/07/08 10:17 PM.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Post deleted by Christine Donovan

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,941
Likes: 3
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,941
Likes: 3
This thread turned out well and I see a bright future for that band.

Kevin


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Post deleted by Christine Donovan

Last edited by Mike Dunbar; 11/07/08 10:36 PM.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Originally Posted by Christine Donovan
Okauy Mr. Yeager...when they all can afford to live on their own ...okay? And he is not a mamas boy...you are disrespecting my son on public forum...you son of a {deleted by moderator}


Christine, I've deleted a word from your previous post.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
[munches popcorn]

[clicks the refresh button]

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,507
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,507
pass the popcorn Mark...i was in on the other thread, and the guys do sound good, seems like fairly small issues to iron out if everyone keeps it in perspective. I lived with a band or two when i was their age, in what was then affectionately called "The Animal House", we worked many a 6 night a week gig as house bands here or there, and then did the college gigs and umpteen clubs for awhile...ha...writers should always split evenly. The more you write together, it evens out...kinda hate to see tempers flare up, not my style usually, though i could be quoted as an occasional jerk i'm sure...ha...i certainly don't think Christine expected them to read the "stupid" comment...and Tom, your suggestion to kick him out, knowing they were checking things out here...hmmm...that seemed a little harsh...but writers are tempermental i know smile Christine, enjoy your husbands return,bandmembers, take a deep breath and write something great together and share it equally...everybody else, popcorn's on Mark...

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,911
Likes: 1
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,911
Likes: 1
G'night all.....


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
thats cool Moker

people can disagree with my opinion of anything anytime...i just dont think folks ought to be bringing parents into band business...you wont make much progress if everything you do is subject to a vote in yankee stadium...i want those guys to succeed and if it comes down to whose got the most domineering mother or father or girlfriend or whatever-its gonna be a real mess....the band has to be tight as a team.......just my opinion......

Tom

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,507
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,507
Tom, i know i missed some stuff, and hindsight's 20/20, when i was that age, i did the opposite of what my folks thought i shoulda been doin'...i'll have to tell ya some of the stories sometime, of course, one guy was datin' a stripper, the drummer partied too hard, and out of the blue, 2 of the guys moved to PA from Florida, we thought they were nuts and so went that band...ha...i agreed with the band bein' tight part, just didn't with the kickin' the kid out part...'n' we'll just agree to disagree on that, but it could happen...no one said it's easy did they?...alright....back to writing something great, i've got one i'm working lyric on tonight about a hot girl...ha...see ya...mj

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
Top 25 Poster
Offline
Top 25 Poster
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,102
And this has been such a great, work things through site for ten years! In two days,,,,,Gone to the dogs on this thread. I guess since politics is over with for the heated up moments, this thread proved to be the surrogate.

I did read the original post, G Knight. (First post)? Good timing if wanting to see a volcano explode! I did forget about the three worded comment of the boys. There's worse to be said about young rockers though, and I get the sense that it was not in the tone or intent as it could be taken. Not the best choice of words though, I get that. Just maybe she was trying to get a point across how the boys need some advice on how to run a band, and that comment gave the reason. ????

BUT,,,talk about comments after that. The latest do show NOT the pro "lady" I thought she was. But you got to figure up north that far is not very good in the weather department. I'd be short tempered too if I had to live anywhere near Ontario! (Joke). I hope that can still be one way to lighten things up a bit. You guys were done with the popcorn anyway, right?

OK,,,,so let's maybe start again, and for any advice wanted to give to the band, or any band who might happen to read this, maybe just go to their site and email the band.

Yeah! Email the band. Go direct!

Oh yeah,,,sometimes I get it alright. Not often, but sometimes.

Now lets get back to the ten year habits of what we do best.

Christine, sometime when you cool down, maybe go through the MANY, MANY topics and replies through many years, as I KNOW there is much info here. More than anywhere else, and by many who have been there, done that. There are VERY top level pros here with sign on names that won't tell won't they are, for obvious reasons of not wanting to be flooded with posts just to them.

I have to say, you sound very hot. Even when we get hot though, I found it best to not reply right away, and let the steam clear, to keep to a respectful level if nothing more than for self. It also doesn't help one's cause to come back with the same heat as you might have been given. Know what I mean?

Take care, and I hope that band gets through the details of cowriter, and for all other band related ordeals. The bands that can go through a lot, playing and otherwise, usually are the tightest.

Keep a cool head.

John



Actually a Member Since 1996 or 97 (Number One Hundred Something).
https://www.soundclick.com/bands3/default.cfm?bandID=1409522





Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Serious Contributor
OP Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 85
Thanks for your comments. I am to be sure not going to return to this site ever again. My husband says not to go to a site where a bunch of men gang up on you and start dissing you.
I think that you had some valid points...but some of you were really over the line...and I think unprofessional. As for this three word thing..okay naive, young and stupid..BIG DEAL. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that I didnt mean it in a bad way...but in a affectionate way. Why would I bother to ask advice fo rthem and give you a link to their music if I truly thought they were stupid? I think several people on this site showed a high level of denseness and insensitivity today.
You turned me off this site by your attack. Plain and simple.
I wont ask advice again that is for sure.
And I didnt care for the nasty comments about my being Canadian...joke or no joke..its obvious that its "okay" fo ryou to say things that could be taken the wrong way but that doesnt apply to me. Hyprocrite.
Yeah...I hope you do go and write some songs and be nice. You werent nice to me at some point you just bared your fangs. Mr. Yaeger in particular you were really out there.
My husband is back now from his long trip and he said...Stay away from that site. I plan to do so.
Thanks

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 387
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 387
Originally Posted by Christine Donovan
Well, the last question I posted about my sons band..CTL caused quite a ruckus! Seems I ahve a different definition of songwriter than some...

My question:

If a musician in a band composes a framework of chord patterns that have no distinctly discernible note for note melody...then another member of the band takes that composition at that level and picks out a melody (and there could be many melodic variations possible) and then puts words to this melody that consists of distinct singular notes. Who is the songwriter?

To me ...both are.
They are co -writers.

What do you think? am I wrong?



If it was a intentional collaboration, I think it should be considered a co-write.
If it was a incidental collaboration and/or if ownership is being argued...then the test for a co-write would be determining if each participant's part qualified as a "original" contribution. So you (or somebody) must decide if the melody and chord progression are both creatively unique.

And I have to add Christine, you should try to take it easy on these Good Old Boys here. They are only trying to help. Some of their advice might have gone a bit off-topic, but you really can't blame them for wanting to relive a little of their youth.
I was even tempted to tell you all about how my band and I played on the main stage at the County Fair when I was 15. Oh, what a sweet gig that was! We were the opening act for Donald Watson and His Dancing Duck. But of course...I digress.

Good luck with your dilemma
(and just in case you were wondering...that duck could really rock!),
wink
GJ

Last edited by GJShades; 11/08/08 03:53 AM.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Hi All
I remember when my first band was formed we were young teenagers (electricity had just been discovered) we needed all the help we could get. The best help came from our parents who supported and encouraged us. How else could we buy the instruments and equipment or get the heavy gear to gigs and practices.
One of the guy’s dad was a guitarist in a band and he gave our guitarists free lessons. He also helped with advice on how to set up and came to rehearsals to help. We welcomed his input plus the sets of strings and odd bit of spare PA equipment he loaned/gave us.
Another dad was an electrician and had a van…what a great combination for a band with little money and dodgy gear. He became our transport manager and roadie. One dad was a janitor and guess what he had a hall where we could practice. Mums were great because they could wash our clothes and cook meals which were much appreciated as we lived out of each others pockets.
Whenever we had a problem and that was often who do you think we approached first…yeah our parents.
Usually they could act as mediators and seldom took sides.
All in all I would be nowhere without the help and advice given by the parents of my bandmates.
We produced a recording of a song we had written and we all insisted that all our names in alphabetical order should appear on the sleeve as co-writers. We were a family.
Hope that answers the question and brings some sense to this debate which quite frankly has got out of hand.
Christine I think personal attacks back and forth are not helping.
If you wish to stop contributing on this forum then that is your decision. If however you want to be a part of our community then you are welcome. We can all exist happily and help each other and exchange advice and ideas but we ALL need to lose the chip on our shoulder.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,941
Likes: 3
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,941
Likes: 3
Good one, Big Jim!

Kevin


"Good science comes in peer reviewed journals. Conspiracy theories come in YouTube videos. "
Kevin @ bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh (and Kevin @50/90 2019)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Compared to the music business, this thread has been little huggy bears singing "Kumbaya" in the cartoon forest. I'd recommend that any young bands learn to develop thick skin. If a band removes itself from opportunity and resource because their feelings are easily hurt or because they can't simply ignore harsh criticism, they'll find themselves paralyzed.

One of the best things that ever happened to me was a very negative, personal attack by a music journalist in a Chicago newspaper. I thought about leaving the music business, I wanted to retreat from the club scene, but an older, successful artist reached out and told me that if he knew I could have been driven away that easily he'd have gotten me out of the competition earlier.

So, folks, sometimes the game gets rough, but if you quit, there's no way to win it.


You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
Top 10 Poster
Offline
Top 10 Poster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 19,579
Likes: 13
So what was all this drama about? I scanned through the posts and saw nothing remotely offensive said by anyone. I have no idea what Christine deleted, but no one else seemed to say anything offensive or unfair in the least. In fact, it's all 100% legitimate and solid advice.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks
jpfolkspro@gmail.com
Skype: Brian Austin Whitney
Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks

"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney

"Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,650
Hi Brian

it was all-that i could see anyway-a band power struggle-being played out on the net by one of the band members mothers....and i didnt think that was right........i felt the band ought to have control of its own message and PR in its myspace page or whatever....i said things Christine didnt want to hear and she blew up on me....but i was trying to make the point that the band has to have-or regain-control of its own message and destiny by the band members and not parents/girlfriends whatever.....they should have control and not parents or whoever...she has to learn to take constructive criticism without going crazy on people....so thats what it was all about...i hope she calms down and comes back....she asked for our input and she got it and it wasnt all what she wanted to hear so she accused us of vicious attacks........i thought i made relevant points about control and decisions staying within the band and not parents or whoever.........i think she had an agenda to use the board in her power struggle with other parents-other members of the band-whatever....and when that agenda wasnt being agreed with and supported-she flamed up on me in remarks she deleted before you could see .....you have seen everything i have writtten.......she wiped her tracks and left..

Tom

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,589
Likes: 1
Posting on the internet is sort of like driving, kind of an anonymous public experience. Since we're actually feeling like we're all alone--behind the driver's seat, or at the keyboard--we're prone to quick, emotional reactions. We cut people off for passing us on the right...we start going ballistic in conversations, in a way we wouldn't dream of doing face to face.

I also hope Christine and any member of Chase the Light decide to use this forum for what it does best...to hook you up with a broader music community, a global one. It's scored me numerous collaborations and led to songs getting published, all within a year.

Or, you can view it as that unfortunate thread where things got ugly. Hope you stay...people are more than the sum of their driving habits.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 109
Serious Contributor
Offline
Serious Contributor
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 109
Bravo Mark, Tom, Mike & Brian

I've found nothing but supportive & honest souls on this forum and I'm on the other side of the world!

I have to agree with Mike - this place is huggy bears compared to the industry as I know it.


One of the finest female voices imaginable - Rock'n'Reel Magazine UK
http://debramanskey.com
http://www.facebook.com/debramanskey
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,114
Top 40 Poster
Offline
Top 40 Poster
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,114
I used to sell beauty supplies to salons and spas. Our motto was: "The beauty business isn't pretty"

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,761
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,761
Dear JPFolks,

I am going to marry a man named John, who is a singer songwriter and has been the driving force in his band. But he has a bandmate named Paul who has stolen half of the credit for his genius for the last ten years.

I think John should go in a totally different direction, break his ties and fulfill his true destiny.

Any advice?

Thanks

Yoko


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Top 20 Poster
Offline
Top 20 Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,463
Hey Yoko go ahead take John in a different direction give Paul a break to write some proper stuff. History will prove you wrong about your man being the driving force. Go sit in a bed for days and make up silly nursery type songs.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,911
Likes: 1
Top 30 Poster
Offline
Top 30 Poster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,911
Likes: 1
Yoko.....The whole is often greater than the sum of its parts. (Aristotle)

Last edited by Colin Ward; 11/09/08 10:16 AM.

Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,761
Top 100 Poster
Offline
Top 100 Poster
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,761
Mr. Jim,

Am I supposed to take advice from someone who thinks that blowing into a pig's bladder constitutes musicianship?

Yoko

Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES
Hey Yoko go ahead take John in a different direction give Paul a break to write some proper stuff. History will prove you wrong about your man being the driving force. Go sit in a bed for days and make up silly nursery type songs.


Satchel was right. Something is gaining on me.

The Shoebox & Dinner at Eight trailers available at:

http://www.twometer.com/Two_Meter_Studios/HOME.html
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
JPF Mentor
Offline
JPF Mentor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 8,574
Originally Posted by Brian Austin Whitney
So what was all this drama about? I scanned through the posts and saw nothing remotely offensive said by anyone. I have no idea what Christine deleted, but no one else seemed to say anything offensive or unfair in the least. In fact, it's all 100% legitimate and solid advice.

Brian


Brian,

Christine asked for opinions about the workings of her son's band. She got those opinions. In among them, some of us suggested that she leave the workings of her son's band up to her son's band. She apparently didn't like that.



You've got to know your limitations. I don't know what your limitations are. I found out what mine were when I was twelve. I found out that there weren't too many limitations, if I did it my way. -Johnny Cash

It's only music.
-niteshift

Mike Dunbar Music

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Support Just Plain Folks

We would like to keep the membership in Just Plain Folks FREE! Your donation helps support the many programs we offer including Road Trips and the Music Awards.


Newest Members
chriscastle, yasir252, cathennashira, Samwise, HappySousa
21,470 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums117
Topics125,718
Posts1,160,951
Members21,470
Most Online37,523
Jan 25th, 2020
Just Plain Quotes
"If one man can do it, any man can do it. It is true. But the real question is, if one man did it, are you willing to do what it takes to do it as well?" –Brian Austin Whitney
Today's Birthdays
warriorgirl (2024)
Popular Topics(Views)
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5