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#704508 03/24/09 12:04 PM
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I was recently burgled and had a lot of gear stolen. Hopefully the insurance will cover most of it. Now I am at square one and will be needing a new setup. What would you recommend as the best hardware and software gear for music production in a small home studio. Forget money. Imagine ideal world.

1. PC and other production hardware
2. Soundcard and interface.
3. Software programs for music production, plugins etc.
4. Mics etc.
5. Keyboards etc.
6. misc. anything else I might need

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Jim
I saw all your gear in Dave's store. He's the friend of Bret and Jermaine in Flights of the Conchords. Just kidding Im trying to cheer you up.

I think you are lucky becuase gears are cheaper and better now compare 5 to 10 years ago.

PC or laptop you can get it for less than 1 thousand dollars.
Sound card interface this is my wish list the TASCAM 1641. Check it out. This mojos can record 16 tracks simultaneous with free Cubase too.

Plug ins try the IK multimedia products. I think they have a bundled product like buy 5 get 3 program.

Mics.... hey go to behringer Im using it and so far they are all cool and affordable too. Use some plug ins like mic modeler or reverb or compressing some of your recording.

KEyboards.... I dont know with this as long as they have a midi interface this is important to me.

Misc.... Buy some refrigerator for the beer and some scotish beverage..

Dont forget the security alarm Jim this is cliche but i will say it "an ounce of security is better when your gear disappear from burglary

Lynman


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A few questions:

1. I know you'll be doing vocal tracks, but will you be doing more midi or more audio recording? Different programs have different strengths, although if you're already familiar with a sequencer/DAW, then you might want to just stick with it to minimize the learning curve. For instance, if you already know Cubase and are happy with it for the most part, then there would have to be a compelling reason to use something else.

2. Will you need to record live drums or can you use samples and loops? Trying to get a feel for how many simultaneous inputs you'll need. That makes a big difference in the cost.

3. For the PC, I never recommend a laptop computer unless you really need the portability. For a desktop, Get at least a Core 2 duo of 2Mhz and at least 2GB of RAM (preferably 4GB).

Sound-on-Sound regularly reviews computers specially designed for audio recording. They have tons of great articles. [This is the only non-U.S. mag I subscribe to - These guys are great.]

Here's a link to some computer articles in SOS:

http://www.soundonsound.com/search?url=%2Fsearch&Keyword=&Year=+&Month=+&Words=All&Summary=No&Section=7&Subject=22&ShowResults=yes


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Here's my two cents, but probably not worth that price...

1. PC and other production hardware
I use a PC, but if given a new start and no budget, then I'd get a Mac. I'd get the Mac Pro, with all the RAM and drive space I could get. Either way, if you intend to get a firewire interface, make sure your computer's firewire card uses Texas Instruments chips (TI chip)...several posts I have read in which cards with cheap chips have caused issues...Texas Instruments chips appear to be immune.

2. Soundcard and interface.
If on a Mac, I'd get the Apogee Duet, since I only record myself. The Apogee converters are highly regarded. RME Fireface is well liked and considered among the best of the lower end. Laney begins a higher level of converters, and as such will extract more pounds.

3. Software programs for music production, plugins etc.
They're all pretty good. ProTools has the added perk of being in every recording studio, so you can just bring the original file instead of exporting each track to WAV. But that's about it. All the other DAWs compete with each other on the same field, and they all have their believers. It's a matter of preference. Reaper is the best value (and Audacity is excellent freeware, but not in the same league), but we all tend to lean toward the one that suits our fancy. Cubase does that for me.

4. Mics etc.
Well, you know your mics. I might suggest you try a modded mic...those old Russian Oktava mics can be modified to bring it closer to the land of Neumann and Telefunken. Michael Joly is someone to look up on the internet, comes well recommended.

But more important than the specific mic (assuming you'll pick something decent enough for your needs) is the preamp. If you can afford a little extra, look into the preamps by Great River or Pacifica or Neve. They get you into the lower rungs of high end sound. As for me, I will be exploring the higher rungs of low end with an ART MPA Gold preamp, and I will trade out the tubes for some NOS Mullards or Telefunkens...probably the best pssible preamp for less than $500. I understand there is a similarly good low end solution available only in the UK: Golden Age Project-Pre 73.

5. Keyboards etc.
This also comes down to personal preference...my used $50 M-Audio Radium 49 works fine for my purposes. But sure, 88 keys would be nicer, and weighted keys nicer yet...but in the long run, you press a key, the MIDI signal is sent. The rest is bells and whistles.

6. misc. anything else I might need
Some seriously good stuff I wish I could afford:
Most anything by East Coast Quantum Leap (ECQL)...tops for orchestral sounds, etc.

Most anything by Universal Audio...software kings who will turn your PC into a Neve or an SSL or whatever.

I wish I wish I wish I had the hardware version of the Chandler Abbey Road Limiter/Compressor...but I'm glad that I DO have the software version.

Get some serious cans...maybe Beyerdynamic has the one for you.

Think about room treatment, or even just some baffling for your vocals. Lots of do it yourself solutions on the net.

Good luck, and may that burglar grow limp and morbidly obese.

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Whoa! Monitors! Get some decent monitors, or all the rest will get bollixed by speakers that tell you lies.

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I have already stated what I record with Jim, I won't bore with details. But with your knowledge, you could really do domething with that.

And most importantly, keep a blunt object near your bed side.

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Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

I will have both a PC and a laptop. PC for music production laptop for everything else.
I only use my home gear for rough work and bits and bobs as most of the serious recordings are done in the studio.
I still have my speakers, headphones, some odd bits of stuff and of course the installation discs and registration download codes for my software.
I will not be using drums except for loops etc as the neighbours are still very friendly and I would not want to put that in jeopardy. I do not think my wife would appreciate me soundproofing the bedroom....so we are moving to my other house. I am in the process of building an extension to create another room.
This spare room will make a nice den/playroom and studio.

I will be purchasing the following and have budgeted around £3000-£4000 for the following.

A good mic £1000
soundcard £300
a laptop £800
PC £1000
Interface, pre amp, misc hardware and sofware. £300-£500

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Jim

I think your monitor are spared by the burglar probably a bulky one.

Im using midi in drums. Ive heard ez drummmer is cool and also virtual drummer by steinberg.

Goodluck!!! Im also using desktop and laptop too. I think desktop is much cheaper of course if you are using 2 screen monitor that will reached to 1000 pounds.

Lynman

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I recently added an outboard compressor which I am using on the microphone for vocals and acoustic guitar. I haven't tried it with electric yet. I previously used a compressor plug-in but the stand alone seems to me to be doing a much better job of bringing out the subtleties. Mine is a Presonus Bluemax which may be obsolete but I am sure you could find a newer model.

I also gave up using Vista and went back to Windows XP because I could not turn off enough of off the stuff going on in the background. I continued to get interruptions in the recording from the Vista while it was busy doing something else......and yes, it was a fast processor with lots of RAM.


Colin

I try to critique as if you mean business.....

http://colinwardmusic.com/

http://rosewoodcreekband.com/


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Thanks Colin I haD a Presonus tube pre amp but it was one of the items stolen. I will replace it as it is pretty good maybe a newer model. There are some good plugins etc that I also use but the Presonus does a good job. Have you tried the Vintage warmer that is pretty good at adding depth and middle. PSP have some great stuff...
http://www.pspaudioware.com/


Thanks Lynman yes I need a laptop to take on the road and the PC is used for just music it is not even online. The pro studio I use does use two monitors and they are great.... you see the whole spread. I do not need that for the stuff I do. BTW if you see a HOOKIE laptop being sold I want the 160GB hard drive iT'S MINE. LOL

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I've been reading that a lot of PC guys have been using the new i7 Intel quad-core chip (the Mac versions just started shipping in March). They're building their own PCs for around $1200 (that's about £820) and they have more power than they can use (250-300 reverb plugins as a test, for instance).

If you can spend that much on a mic, I'd suggest a Neumann TLM103. I love mine and haven't had a singer sound bad on it yet. Another very nice mic within that budget is the Rode K2 tube mic.

I would recommend a Firewire sound card if at all possible - you'll get lower latency than with USB. Good soundcards in that price range are Presonus Firebox, Focusrite Sapphire, and the TC Electronic Konnekt. If you want to use it with the laptop, make sure it has a Firewire port or that you can add a Firewire PC card to it.

When you talk external mic preamps, you can spend a small fortune (£1000 plus) on boutique models, but UA makes some very nice models for less than that, and that sound very good.

I understand that Vista is not recommended - if you can stay with XP, you're better off.



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Hey Big Jim

My friend Bill Kavanagh (who recorded all my songs at his studio) WON a microphone package from his music place (first time he EVER won anything)...$10,000 (retail) worth of free mikes. So NOW, he has all his old ones AND the new ones and is trying to sell some of them. I am quite sure he will be very reasonable on price ! bill@bobdogstudios.com
just email him, tell him you're my friend, and ask him to email you the list of stuff he has for sale !


Herbie
JPF Chicago Chapter Coordinator
http://www.herbietunes.com

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Wow Thanks Herbie I will contact him. £10.000 buys a lot of mics even a couple of decent Neumanns....

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Thanks Larry I agree and will take the advice on board. I have used Neumann and the Rode in the pro studio I use. Funny thing the Rode which is cheaper than the top of the range Neumann he normally uses suits my voice slightly better.

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Larry

Thanks for your feedback about the use of vista.
Lynman

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Wow Big Jim,

I know how much time it takes to research suitable equipment for the home studio, so Im sorry for you loss.

For me this gear hunt is a constant process, always upgrading, always trying to be updated about old and new stuff, and Im a songwriter. Takes a lot of time away from my core business of writing and playing.

Im not an expert, but I have a few suggestions for you.

1. PC and other production hardware

You should definitely get a desktop with the new i7 chips, if you can. They say these in a few years will be able to reach 24xcores, so in a year or two the software market will boom with power consuming programmes. Then you'll need a pc that can handle the necessary upgrades. Also get the new DDR3 rams, as the pc's will have 3ram slots in the furture, and DDR3's will be the only standard that will be upgradeable after the spring this year, because every new computer will come with new slots. Then you'll be safe for a few years ahead. They make music computers with these specifications already, and the new motherboards and rams should not cause problems with your old software.

And Im with Mark, you should make sure the firewire is from Texas Inst., or you'll be in trouble sooner or later.

Vista causes trouble with MIDI. Three months before the release of MS Vista the engineers at MS wouldn't even support MIDI, but reconsidered after pressure from their advisors. I would go for Win XP, and wait to see if Windows 7 is any good, and when your software get drivers for Win. 7, then do the upgrade. It'll probably take two years, as the release of Win 7 is this fall, then the software manufactorers need a year to see if it a success, then they need another year to develop the appropriate drivers, so thats two years from now. Id say it is safe to go with Win XP.

2. Soundcard and interface.

Well the best stuff is the Universal Audio, I guess. Second comes the RME Fireface stuff. The Apogee Mark suggests, should also be great.

Another great soundcard for the Laptop is TC Electronics Konnect Live. It's built like a tank, it has quality a/d converters, and it comes with built in DSP effects that won't suck your RAMs and are very usable. TC makes excellent reverbs, and that interface has the great feature that it disables your monitors automatically when you plug in your headphones. Personallly, I find that very convenient.

3. Software programs for music production, plugins etc.

Any DAW will do these days, so is about workflow, and what you feel comfortable in. Here's a comparison:
http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/shootout/shootout_summary.htm

Compressors from Waves (the compressors is most of your sound), and the OZONE 4 mastering plug-in from Izotope is great (for my use anyway).

4. Mics etc.

Not my specialty, I work with entry level condensers myself (studio projects, røde), and struggle to find mics that fits my own voice myself. Best so far is actually the studio projects B1's that I also use to mic up my guitar combo.

Great preamps are very hard to find at a reasonable price. I think, you should stay away from the ARTs though, they are better suited for live use, and tend to be muddy for studio production. Best small affordable pre is probably M-Audio DMP3, and it has stereo inputs if you want to record an accoustic guitar or something in stereo. For high end, Great River is probably the way to go, but Im not experienced at all with high end gear..

5. Keyboards etc.

I just use the Korg Nano series, because Im not a keyboardist. Sometimes I need to play a little, and the Korgs work fine for that, and they are small (very good in my homestudio). If I were to choose something bigger I'd prefer something like the M-Audio Oxygen, because it has firewire, allthough Im careful what I get from M-Audio. If your'e going big, I would suggest something like Yamaha or Roland. Personally, I like the sound in the Rolands better.

6. misc. anything else I might need

I use the Korg NanoKontrol for tweaking in my DAW. It's small and very usable. Korg also have a NanoPad for drum triggering, if you use that. These small units are affordable and very practical at home, because of their size.

I would look at Native Instruments products. The sound quality is up there, and very userfriendly. German quality.

Good luck to you!

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Hi Lynman I hope you do not try to use Vista for music production you will be sorry.

Thanks Magne a lot of things to get through. I will look at what you suggest. I would not even consider Vista...it is useless for music... I had it and binned it immediately as it did not have any appropriate drivers for and did not support any of the progs I already used even although they were fairly new. I will not be rushing out to buy the new thing either it is bound to have teething probs and I do not want to spend many hours trying to sort out probs that cannot be sorted instead of using safe tried and tested stuff that I know works. If it aint broke do not try and fix it. Microsoft want arrested for producing a new O/S that does not support older programs used on a previous O/S
They think we are mug enough to run out and buy all new compatable progs.... I do not think so.

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Gee, so much good advice in this thread that I have nothing to add, as I get most of my recording gear off eBay. smile

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Pat mentioning Ebay....that is probably the most important and valuable info on this thread. I have saved a small fortune and picked up numerous bargains on Ebay. I have bought mics, keyboards, drum machines, guitars, laptops, hardware, software and everything musical you can imagine all at rock bottom prices. Never had a problem either with the quality of the stuff or delivery. I must have saved thousands. Spent thousands too. It is also a good place to get rid of unwanted old stuff that would normally lie in back of a cupboard unused. It helps newbies and novices as they get the use of things normally outside price range once you have finished with it.

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Big Jim, research your preamps...I think the Presonus TubePre is too low on the food chain for the likes of you. I just sold mine yesterday for $60 and am getting ready to go up to the next level. A thousand pound mic deserves better.

Check out gearslutz.com where all the pros and amateurs alike argue about music gear. One thing that I've come to believe is most important in a recording is a great mic, a great pre, and a good capture of the sound through mic placement and performance. After that, the rest is gravy. But a good preamp will allow your great mic to sound as it should without trying to tweak it all with software.

Go pro. Maybe find a used Avalon or Grace. You can sell a professional quality preamp at the same price years later...not so with the Presonus...can you guess why?


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Thanks Mark..I also have some plugins that do a good job. Thankfully some stuff survived the break in.

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Jim

Actually I was planning to buy a laptop with installed vista long ago i think last year but decided not to pursue it because of this fear. I remember I asked this to you but I cannot find the thread. Instead I increase the RAM of my present system so I can load more and more plugins without worrying to overload the processing of computer. So far my system is doing fine in xp and my greatest fear now is what happen when my present processor is not available in the coming years. Oh probably vista will be good by then.

Lynman

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Lynman you can buy a new laptop or PC with loads of ram and a good processor. Just uninstall the pre-installed Vista and install your current XP the licence will still be valid. You can then install Vista or another O/S much later when XP becomes totally obsolete. I did this and know a few guys who have also done this.

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Yes, Jim. The thing with buying from eBay sellers is to be careful: buy only from sellers who have feedback ratings in the high 90s% and who have a long history of selling similar items.

I got my sound cards, a mixing console, and a couple of mics that way myself.

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Thanks Pat good advice. I always check feedback before any purchase. I also use Paypal they automatically insure you against rip off as the sellers A/c can be frozen and monies returned.

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Big Jim, I would be interested in knowing what mic you are going to get for vocals.

Tom


Thomas Shea

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http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
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Hi Tom Funny thing..... you might be interested. I have been recording with a mega cheap £4 stereo mic as it was all that was available after the break in. It is the kind normally used for talking online and simple podcasts etc. "Nowhere Man", "lost" and "Champion" were all recorded using it.

That said for future stuff I would like a good quality studio condenser mic.

I will let you know what I eventually plump for.


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Hey Jim,
I've been contemplating buying a new computer myself. I am looking at a dedicated system that is built for audio recording. Just so you know, I have no interest in this company but am looking into this particular system. It seems like a good value.
http://www.reyniersaudio.com/daw/daw_core2.shtml

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Thanks Argo this is just the type of thing I am looking for. There is also a Carillon music dedicated PC. I believe they have stopped making them but some good second hands are available. That said with a PC it is better buying new with modern specs. Also there are stripped XP systems available that can be used in a good spec PC. The water cooled system is virtually noiseless and is a must also. There is a PC shop near me that will build to any spec. Not only cheaper but you get exactly what you want. The company is called Silicon.

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Thanks for the information Jim. I will be interested to see what you buy. I have five mics - all relatively inexpensive. For Justice's recordings, we used an Audix OM2 - a dynamic microphone. I felt that it provived a smoother, richer sound that a couple of the inexpensive condensors that I have. I know that condensors are used the majority of the time in studios.

Have fun shopping.

Tom


Thomas Shea

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http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

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I have been using my vista machine for recording for well over a year now. I just waited until Tascam announced a vista driver for their US-224 audio interface. I am using Sonar Home Studio 6XL. It's old, but that seems to work with vista quite nicely.

I do believe all the stuff I hear about Vista, but it can still work. But if XP works better, then use that.

Kevin


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Hi Kevin the problem is Vista is not compatable with older progs and will only work with certain new editions of programs and even these have teething probs. Who is going to go out and pay extra to upgrade ON AN UNCERTAINTY when they already have expensive progs that work very well with XP. Also there are problems with some drivers not being available or not working.

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Hi jim

Ill do that. I think I have to increase my RAm for 2 gig more. AS I learned new skill my hunger in plug ins increases.

Just bought today a brand new USB Midi cable from Ebay. In my practice I prefer to use the usb midi than to plug my keyboard to my M audio.


Lynman

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Hi Lynman. Good idea about the Midi input. You can then use plugins on the MIDI TRACK and edit these to your hearts content. What software are you using?

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Jim

Im using cubase. So far so good.

lynman

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Newbie here and learning a lot from this thread. I'm looking to buy a new sequencer program as I've been using an older one (pre-Apple Logic)

@Kevin, no drop-out issues using Sonar with Vista?

@Lynman, what version of Cubase are you using?

Thanks guys

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One tip do not record while using plugins or fx insert...causes more latency...add these in post record.

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It is fun to track the progress here on this thread. Good tips also.

Tom


Thomas Shea

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http://www.soundclick.com/thomasshea

Justice - Songs
http://www.soundclick.com/justice-nebraska

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Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES
One tip do not record while using plugins or fx insert...causes more latency...add these in post record.


Really? I haven't encountered that problem. Sometimes I really like to have certain effects running while I record, because it changes how things are played or sung.

Hey Big Jim, I wonder if you've ever tried an Electro-Voice EV20 for vocals. It's a pretty amazing mic that was designed to be used in places where noise is a consideration. Paul McCartney used it on "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey", among many others. Although it's a dynamic and not a condenser, it has a very nice response for certain voices without the usual top end "fizz" of many low-end condensers, and virtually eliminates the need for room treatment. Maybe something to try out if your studio buddies have one to borrow.

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Hi Mark The latency issue depends on how good and fast your PC is and what plugins and Fx you use.... some of the top end plugins use a lot of processing power. We have to disable some things like Ivory piano when recording.

Re Ev mic my keyboard player uses an EV not sure of model...

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Hey Big Jim,

I would say a PC, with as much ram as you could load into it, and the largest multi-strand processor, but one especially made for recording music. Lots of cache, and the biggest front side bus you can get. Oh and in saying that I just had a hard drive go down in the studio comp, be sure to have some back up system in place that has nothing to do with you, as far as seeing it gets done. I haven't backed that comp up in quite sometime, a very expensive mistake for sure. When I replace the hard drive, I am going to replace it with two equal size hard drives and mirror them. That way if one goes down , the other will have the same exact information saved to it, and the odds of both of them going down at the same time are almost nil.

My sound card is the Edirol UA-101, lots of inputs, very reliable, simple interface and no latency issues. I would recommend it highly, however one can get away with something much cheaper.

Music software, I have tried many of them, but I have settled on two products that are quite easy to use and provide every aspect one would want in recording music, including high quality plug ins, and VST interfaces, they are not cheap in any way, shape, or form. The recording program is Cakewalk Sonar 6.0, Producer edition, this is an excellent program in the production and editing of your music, but in itself it lacks the benefits of a good editing, and mastering program, so for that I recommend Sony Sound Forge 9.0 sound lab. This program to me is the Photoshop of sound and WAV editing programs. Neither are cheap, but both are worth what you pay for them.

Mics - I use mostly Shure's models 57 and 58, along with a good condenser mic set. These mic's will give you the ability to adopt to a diverse selection of applications and fill any need you might have under most any circumstances.

Keyboards - I Use the "Juno G" by Roland. Great quality sound samples, General M 2 compliant, and very versatile in it's applications. It also has a built in 4 track recorder so if you want to build a particular music line to play along with , you can do that right in the keyboard itself.

Two other Software programs I find very useful are Bookenc, which is an mp3 encoder, and Mp3 gain which analyzes the volume of your mp3 and adjusts it according. Saves ya time messing with that function in the mastering process, and best of all i think they are both open source, and free.

Hope that helps .

Billy Darnell

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Can you mixdown the audio tracks on the JunoG? I'm looking at getting one

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Hi Michael,
Not really, you can control the sound level of each track I believe, but it doesn't have editing capabilities. However with that being said I believe you could in put a track that was mixed down also. It's not a function I play with normally, but after reading the manual, I believe what I am telling you is accurate.

Billy Darnell

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Billy, thanks great to know that. The Juno G seems like a reasonably priced all-in-one keyboard.

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Thanks Billy. I will be getting a high spec music production only PC and will use a special stripped down version of XP. Thankfully still have my installation discs ETC so I will probably stick with Cubase It is what I am used to.
I have a couple of Sm58 I keep as spares but do not use them as I prefer my Audio Technica mics for live work. I require a better quality studio condenser for recording.

I am open to suggestions for a mid priced studio mic though. I have used several makes and models but am always willing to give something new a try out.

I have a small Yam keyboard midi compatable that I use for recording.

Interesting about soundcards there are so many different opinions. I will need some advice on that one. Like mics it is probably down to individual likes and dislikes and preferences.

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Hi Jim,
I'm very happy with my MXL990 (large diaphragm condenser, low cost). M-Audio makes a similar one for about $100 - $120. I'd stay away from the Behringer C1.

Regards

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Thanks Jojo. I will probably go for a higher spec mic but at $100 it is worth trying out.

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Originally Posted by BIG JIM MERRILEES
Interesting about soundcards there are so many different opinions. I will need some advice on that one. Like mics it is probably down to individual likes and dislikes and preferences.


Yeah it is to a point. We don't hear the same things, but then again it doesn't hurt if the specs are good! If you're working with high quality mic's like Neumanns, you do not want that quality wasted in the a/d converters on a poor soundcard. Then you might get the same overall quality with a lot cheaper mic! So depending on your other gear, it might not even be the soundcard that'll give you the most effective sound improvement.

But I can't really advice you on it, though (not enough experience, struggling with the research on this myself), but I recently saw that the german online musicstore Thomann (I have no affiliation there) is offering sound examples on (some of) the soundcards they sell. Sure there are some signal chain issues they could have provided to make proper comparisons, but it might be helpful to you anyway.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/audio_interfaces.html

just click in on the products and listen to the samples..


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