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Here is one that Letha has been helping me with for a while now. I have been waiting on my lead player to come put some lead on it, but finally got tired of waiting so I put some on lead on it myself. (not my strongest point). Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Charles

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7735096

This Drinking’s Got To Stop
© Charles Kirkland/Letha Allen 2009

(V1)
I keep giving
You keep taking
You keep slipping
I keep praying
To save our love there’s nothing I wouldn’t do
But I sure could use a little bit of help from you

(Chorus)
These wild nights and barroom fights
Are taking their toll
Coming in a 3 AM
With perfume on your clothes
You’re spending too much time
With your friend the Jerk
Laying up in bed all day
You’re missing too much work
I’ve had it up to here
My head is about to pop
I really love you honey
But this drinking’s got to stop

(V2)
Are you hearing
What I'm saying
You keep drinking
I'm not staying
There's still a chance right now it's not too late
But it's time for you to step up to the plate

(Repeat Chorus)

(Bridge)
There’s a Church Revival Sunday at the park
The man who’s speaking has been where you are
So dig out your two piece suit take and have it cleaned
Like it or not this Sunday you’re coming to Church with me

(Repeat Chorus)

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Letha and Charles,

Letha are you the lead vocal?

You sound so different, texturally, that I couldn't tell!

Okay so I'm forced to listen to the lo-fi stream, but I like what I'm hearing a lot.

I like how the key words in the verses are punched out with Letha harmonies. I like the almost Byrds-y feel to the orchestration, as if Roger Mcguinn listened to Dan Penn (wrote "Do Right Woman", "Sweet Inspiration") and got in a Memphis mood, and got himself the most soulful singer he could find to handle the vocals.

I loved the lyric too; at first I winced at "With your friend the Jerk" , but it's conveying the singer's emotional state nicely...love it now...

All good...great job, you two!

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 06/20/09 10:22 PM.

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

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from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)
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It's got a real nice groove and feel to it and the playing and singing is real fine.

I would start with one vocal on the first verse and then add after that. Having the change from one vocal to two always helps shifting a song up a gear.

You all are making a nice team on these tunes!

Kevin


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Excellent job Charles and Letha! BTW, the lead is fine Charles. Take it from an old rhythm guitarist, lead is overrated. lol. And, Letha you're sounding sweeter than honey on a sugar cube in this one! Nice work! Take care and enjoy what's left of the weekend. smile
-Dave


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"A song is anything that can walk by itself." - Bob Dylan

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Hi Mike,

Yes, that's me lol. I am kind of like Sybil, that woman with nine personalities. I sing the way the song takes me lol, and that can be all over the place. I love all kinds of music, and like to sing any style, except maybe Opera, Jazz, or Rap, lol, don't think I would be able to pull them off.

When I first read "the Jerk", I felt a little undecided, but then when I heard the melody and sung it a few times, it was one of my favorite parts.

Charles is a very talented writer, singer and musician, and I am always happy to work on something with him.

Thanks alot for listening and your comments Mike, and thank you too Charles.

Letha

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Hi Kevin,

Thank you for listening and your thoughts. I will leave all the production decisions on the vocals to Charles. I just send something and let him use or cut as he wants lol. I am sure he will think about all the suggestions that you all make, as we appreciate all the help.

Letha


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Hi Dave,

Yes, I think Charles does a fine job on the lead. I think, as artists, sometimes we are all harder on our own selves than anyone else is.

I sure appreciate such a nice compliment. Lol, "Honey on a sugar cube", that sounds like a song idea to me...but I thank you very much, and you have a great weekend too.

Letha



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Charles & Letha:

Some random thoughts:

1. Great production. It sounds absolutely terrific.
2. The lyrics are top notch in every section.
3. The lead guitar actually sounds pretty good to me but a production this good deserves the best you can get for it. Get that lead player in to do his thing!
4. Letha's vocals are spot on (and are a great fit for this song!)
5. My only nit is that the chorus melody became a little monotonous in lines 9 & 10. The last two line change things up nicely, but the chorus this is a long chorus and I thing it might keep things fresher to change the melody of lines 9 & 10.

Mark


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WOW
GREAT!!


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HI guys,

This is something to be proud of.

Good music
Good writing
Good singing

Thank you for sharing your talents with us.

Calvin


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/calvinstewart

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Charles and Letha,
First let me say that I appreciate this alot. Letha you are fun to listen to and very talented. And Charles the production on this is better than anything I could do. (though we play similar lead guitar)

You know I listened several times yesterday and today. I wanted to come back to this to make sure my feelings did not change.
And I'm with Kevin that there might be too many harmonies. This is sung as a spiritual and the lyric is more of a personal lament. Though it does have a definate roots feel to it. It is still kind of a woman speaking to man directly.

I always use the term prosity to describe when the pieces of a song are out of kilter a bit. I know that term is probably wrong but it should mean that. . .

Anyway lots of respect coming from me just my honest opinion.
Tom

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Mark, Dan, Calvin and Tom,

Sure appreciate you all listening,and your thoughts and suggestions. I think it is great to get such feedback to help get the best version of a song we can.

Tom, I had to go to Wiki googling for that term "prosity". Although it had some things I will never understand in that definition, lol, I think I understand your point.

I always seem to do alot of harmonies, and I am never offended if (I should say when, because I expect that) someone cuts from them. I do what feels natural to the song, but I know that is only my own personal feeling, and I feel like it is better to do more, because we can cut them, than to do not enough.

I understand what Kevin and you both say about leaving the harmonies out of the 1st verse for diversity, and that could be a good idea. I know when Charles gets a chance to read and analyze all the suggestions, he can make any changes that he thinks might improve the song, including, lowering or removing some of the harmony, and that is 100% fine with me if he wishes to. I am just all for the final result being the best and closest to a commercial arrangement and production that he can get.

If you have any suggestions on parts that you think should be cut out,or lowered, feel free to post your ideas and then I know Charles will consider all the input you give. Never be afraid to hurt my feelings, as I truly only want the best for the song and understand constructive criticism.
We appreciate that....

Letha

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Hi Charles & Letha,

I like this song. It has a great feel, lyrics and music go really well together. The production sounds good to me too. The only thing I'd change is the chorus. It felt really long and I think the part I'd cut is:
You’re spending too much time
With your friend the Jerk
Laying up in bed all day
You’re missing too much work
I don't think it takes anything away from the song to cut these lines, the other ones pretty much say what needs to be said. Just a thought. Really well done otherwise.

Ricki

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Good one ya'll.. Course anything gonna sound good when Letha gets ahold of it.


http://www.soundclick.com/louistwinn

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Very nice Charles and Letha! Yeah, Letha can sing anything. smile

First time through I couldn't pick out the lead vocal until verse 2 started. Then it seemed clear. When I listened again, I heard it right away from the start. Not sure what that means but it suggests to me maybe lowering or even dropping the harmonies for V1. Since I love harmony I might try lowering before dropping but that's a personal thing.

Really dig this!

Scott


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Sorry I haven’t responded sooner, but I’ve had a very busy weekend. A Rodeo on Saturday and Fathers Day yesterday. Happy Fathers day to all you Dad’s out there, by the way. I just want to say thanks to Mike, Kevin, Dave, Mark, Dan, Calvin, Tom, Ricki, Louis and Scott for the comments and feedback. I hope I didn’t miss anyone. There are some really good ideas to work with. I’d also like to say a big thank you to Letha for working on this with me. There seems to be a consensus that I left in too much BG vocals. It’s just that I like Letha’s harmonies so dang much…lol. I will do a re-mix and tone that down some. I also like the idea of maybe changing the melody somewhat in lines 9 and 10 of the chorus if Letha is willing to re-do those lines for me. Also as far as taking out the line about the friend the Jerk, I understand where you are coming from, I had even taken it out at one point myself, but made a decision to put it back in. It is the controversial line in the song and is what makes people say what was that. It also show’s some hypocrisy about the God fearing church going woman who is trying to save her man from his devilish ways. She is not concerned with saving the Jerk, and is even blaming him somewhat for her mans shortcomings. That line just say’s too much, I think, to take it out. I do understand what you’re saying though. I also think the long chorus offsets the short verses, and is in a way, different from the standard chorus and makes things a little more interesting. I appreciate so much, everyone’s comments and input. It is a very valuable tool that I use in my songwriting process and without the feedback we couldn’t progress. So thanks again.

Charles


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Hi Charles and all,

It sure is nice getting all of the feedback and suggestions isn't it Charles? I love hearing thoughts from talented and experienced listeners to make our songs and writing better. I am one person who sure appreciates the honesty and gives thanks to you all.

Charles, I am open to doing the whole song over, anyway you want to try it. You just send me your thoughts. If you want to cut some, it is all fine with me. I am even getting a new mic in the mail in the next few days!lol. So, I will probably just have to record it from scratch, in order to ever do any changes and get the same sound. I do not mind it one bit.

I respect your talent and insight about the song, so you just tell me what you want, and we will try to get it, lol.

As always, happy to work with you,

Letha

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I really like this alot!! Yes Letha, you do sound different, though it is a cool thing to be able to change your vocals to fit certain songs. I like the lyrics alot too. I just wonder if the chorus may be a bit too long? It seems it repeats some of what is in the verses, that the drinking must stop. just a thought but I think you both did a great job on this! Kimberly


*Always open to collaborations on my lyrics.. with singers and musicians, but PLEASE contact me before putting work into one--in case someone else has it..thanks!!**
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Hi Kimberly,

Thanks alot for listening and your thoughts. I think Charles is thinking on all the suggestions, and we will do a few changes here and there maybe, and see what happens. I used to like to sing the song, "Life #9", by Martina McBride, and I just felt this song was along the same feel as that one when Charles let me hear it, so I went that way.

Thanks again,
Letha

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Kimberly,
Thanks for listening and the suggestions. They are very much appreciated.

Charles



Letha,
I re-mixed the BG vocals and took some out. See what you think and let me know. Sure, when you get that new mic in, we can give it another shot if you want to. Really break that mic in good...lol.

Charles

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Lol,

I can't wait to get that mic Charles, I sure hope it is ready cause I have been waiting for it, lol.

I took the advice of alot of the good friends in here, and I sure hope I listened to them well enough...guess we will see soon.

I will go listen,

Thanks Charles

Letha

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hey C & L...

so I listened to this song simply as a music fan and someone who appreciates good music...so to that end, I don't have anything clever or powerful to say to you in regards to the technicalities of this song. However, it appears that the better ears of our forum have arleady spoken to that.

As a music lover...I LOVE THIS SONG! Kiss your Muse!


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~ terrill

“One good thing about music, when it hits you, you feel no pain.”
― Bob Marley

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Hi Charles,

I am listening, but it takes me a while, cause I overanalyze alot,lol. I am trying to quit that.

I like what you removed Charles. Funny how taking things away can add to something??lol.

Charles, how about the volume on the vocals on "I really love you honey"? Maybe they could come down a tad more, and maybe even fade the ending out a little sooner so you can hear "but this".

Can you make my voice more assertive and meaner?? lol

I think the changes you made are good, let's see what the others think too, we are coming along I think,

Wow Charles, we are creating this song right here in JPF, lol, that is kind of fun,

Letha

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Hi Terrill,

I was not around when you were here before, and it's an honor to meet you. I listened to your song, and it is just wonderful, so it makes me very happy that you liked this one,

Thanks so much,

Letha

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Charles, Letha,
this is just great. I'll admit it was difficult to understand some of the vocals. Maybe I had it down too low. But the sound, the tune, and the lyric are just great.Very enjoyable listening.

have fun,
John


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Hi Charles and Letha,

I was over at a friends who has hi bandwidth modem connection, so I had a chance to really hear this wonderful song for the first time, and noticed some things this time I thought I'd pass along.

I love the way the drums are recorded. The background Lethas sound great, and I didn't mind when there were more of them them.

Letha, I wanted your lead vocals to have a little more presence, as they sound to me like they are mixed and recorded only a little closer than the background Lethas.

If I'm sitting in the audience, the background Lethas sound like they are...maybe 20...25 feet away, and lead Letha a few feet closer at best, but really it's just that you're projecting and really singing the hell out of this material! Still, the lead Letha's consonants are almost inaudible, especially the "esses". I think some experimenting with microphone recording volume and placement might help. A little closer and a little less preamp volume, perhaps. Also EQ wise you can try a slight boost between 10-15 KHz on the lead vocals. A slightly higher compression ratio can help too, as far as presence goes. smile

A trick I've used successfully and is not uncommon is to record a closemic'd "whisper track" that is all consonants and enunciation, and then the track is carefully put with the lead vocal, and this can really work to push the singer a bit closer to the audience.

As to reverb, unless you are completely going for that old Motown sound in the vocals, I'd make the majority of my lead vocals have a room size space. Maybe a 25-35% wetness on a "big hall" sound, but mostly large room size reverb. The reverb sound is actually quite reasonable here, though.

As far as the band goes, IMHO there's a bit of an identity problem, in that I hear Memphis soul and Nashville elements that sometimes gel, but sometimes clash. I don't think the fiddle works at all, and in fact has some timing problems and doesn't groove at all, imo.

The Nashvillian lead guitar lick was well executed, at least, sounds pro to me.

I wanted the rhythm section to be more Memphis oriented, to compliment Letha's singing style more, maybe a slightly smaller sound, more Stax-like, with the rhythm guitars panned farther apart, and playing crisper, tighter, EQ'd with a tad more highs and not so "blended in" and woolly sounding and in a "smaller room." ...and then hopefully giving the song more rhythmic "propulsion."

Also to me, Letha sounds very energetic on this one, which really fits the material. The band just feels a little more cautious and laid back, like they're not quite complimenting the vocals, grooving to the vocals, like they could.

Still love the song, and still think you've got something quite good "as is."

Mike

Last edited by Michael Zaneski; 06/23/09 06:02 AM.

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Charles/ Letha,

Well, Mike nailed what there's to say about this IMO So I'd just state that I was here :-)

I generally enjoy the material coming from both of you, as it always seem to be entertaining and have some quality to it. So thanks, I look forward to the next one already..

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Hi Mike,

Thank you so much for taking the time for your knowledgable critique. The technical aspect is one that I have to leave to others, like you and Charles who has that experience.

One thing I think you pointed out is the fiddle, and I would probably vote to take that out also, unless we find a good fiddle player lol, that can nail it better.

Charles will probably understand better the suggestions on mixing, so we will see what he thinks and I am sure he is giving it the go over. He may not be able to do much with the vocal track he has. If we need to, I will try a new track after my new mic comes in, I think that is supposed to be today but you never can tell about the mail.

Thank you Mike,

Letha

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Thanks Magne, it is always a pleasure to work with Charles. Appreciate you listening,

Letha

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Magne,
Thanks for the listen and the comments. You are right too, Mike pretty much nailed it.

Charles

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Mike,
All I can say is WOW!!! You nailed it. That is pretty much exactly what I have going on in the mix. Let me see if I can explain how I arrived at this sound. When I wrote this song, I could hear Jo Dee Messena singing it somewhat in the fashion that she does “My Give A Damn’s Busted”. When I asked Letha to help me with the song, and I got the vocal tracks back, they had a bluesy gospel feel to them. Totally different than what I was hearing but I liked what she had done. So I thought I would try to merge the two sounds just to see what we came up with. I even posted on another forum that I was trying for a gospel feel yet contemporary sound at the same time. Don’t know how well it all worked, but everything you mentioned was done intentionally and I’m serious, man you pretty much nailed it. Where I set the rhythm tracks, the BG vocals with the lead vocals all of it. I am impressed. My respect for your knowledge has always been high, and just went up a little higher. You can sure hear and pick out what is going on in a mix. We posted this to pretty much see what type of response we’d get with the sound we had going on and if it was working or not. As far as the lead vocals, the tracks I got had to be EQ’d quite a bit. I’ve got about +4db @ 12K to add some air already. I’ll add a little more. EQ’ing her vocals has always been a challenge, but one I have really enjoyed. Due to her mic, and the vocals being recorded in a different environment than the rest of the music, makes for some interesting eq’ing at mixing time. I love a good challenge though. I am anxious for Letha to get her new mic, to see what happens. I just have to …LOL… on the fiddle. Letha wanted me to leave it out completely but I left it in. To me it helped on the gospel bluesy side of it. It does need a little cleaning up though. Also, thanks for the comments about the lead guitar. I still struggle with that one. I’ll try some of the things you suggested and see what happens. I have a guy coming over to add some guitar work on it too, if he shows up, so it could get even more interesting before it’s finished. Thanks for taking such an in depth listen to this and for the feedback. I appreciate it very much.

Best Regards
Charles

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Originally Posted by John Hoffman
Charles, Letha,
this is just great. I'll admit it was difficult to understand some of the vocals. Maybe I had it down too low. But the sound, the tune, and the lyric are just great.Very enjoyable listening.

have fun,
John


John,
Just realized I over looked replying to your comments. I just wanted you to know that I very much appreciate you listening and thanks for the feedback. Glad you enjoyed it. We are going to work on the vocals some and try to clean this one up a little more. Thanks again.

Charles


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This song has a groove - it really drew me into it. The in front drums in the intro are very effective. I like the textures and dynamics. The hook is good. The vocals are a little too far back - they need to be a little more up front. I agree about shortening the chorus. Nice roughness in the vocals with good tone.

Tom


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Hi Tom,

Thanks alot for listening and your comments. We are working a little more on this, and when we get that done, we will let you all hear it and hopefully we can get a final version.

Letha

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I've listened to this several times but didn't really feel I had the knowledge to comment. I do think Mike had excellent feedback for you. He's got skilz, so I would listen to the M Man on this. I did want to drop-in to say for the most part, I liked this. I really wanted the singer to leave this jerk, but that's just me..

I always love to hear Letha sing!


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You think I'm just another jive folk singer but I'm a master in the art of criminology..Tom Russell
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Thanks Wendy!!! You listened several times? That really makes me feel good...lol. That means it can't be too bad of a song. It's gotta be Letha's vocals your coming back for. I know I can't get enough of them. I love to listen to her sing. We are still going to try a few different things on this one, many of what Mike suggested, It just takes a while to get everything together to work on it. Thanks again for the comments.

Charles


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