JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum about to take a leap, advice wanted

It does not matter who does not like your music --- only who does.

Tom

Listen to Marc....

Tom

God, Who in their right mind would do that?

MAB

You're right on the money as usual Marc! Only kidding...


John

I think you are dead on that one John. LOL!

hope you're having a good weekend. Another "Birthday show" with 9 Canadians and 6 Nashville writers, a couple of number one writers and some special guests just for good measure.

MAB

I had to display my light side with a little joshin' today. Some think I've been way too serious lately.

Okay, I won't hijack this thread again.

Have fun at the Birthday Show Marc!

John

dmk, it's really not a leap in the big picture (I understand it is for you, though) to put together an album with 12 songs, make them the best you can and release it on CD Baby or with some other host. Like you say, everybody is doing it.

In order to get going, you need to put some music out there, and a CD's worth is a good start. Understand that the first couple ones will mainly be useful for marketing, not really sales (you CAN always get lucky, but don't count on it).

As for advice, I think everything got redundant after Marc's first post with 10 bullits. They were all killers! :-)

i have been in a state of loathing regarding this discussion, fearful of what i would find. so i finally faced it and must say have enjoyed it alot. thanx to all who have made comment. the advise marc and brian gave was the right advise for me but being stubborn i didn't want to hear it. i needed some time for it to perculate down and now it has. so here's the new plan. i feel somehow duty bound to share it with you all.

i got out of the living room, have done 2 open mic's so far,and have ditched the internet marketing thing largely because it's way too mind boggling for me anyway and because i have decided that win, lose or draw, i will continue to try to persue the live performance thing. by the way, my son is no longer incarcerated(too many dui's) and he is pursueing a career as a photograper, he's really good at it, i'm really proud of him. i am working on my set lists, practicing , got one of my amp's working again and have a powered monitor on the way,picked up a nice little mahogany top concert size acoustic for my blues and slide stuff. my son is going to build me a web site so i can direct potential venues to it to sample my music rather than passing out cd demo's. i am half and half in my mind about my ability to pull this off. but i have nothing to lose really and my only goal is to make a living, not more, that is enough. my target will be coffee houses, and nursing homes. and eventually i want to try to get on the folk curcuit, if such a thing actually exists, i've heard it does. there is a folk association in the area that i want to get in with. i want to get some albums recorded for sale at the places i play. so, i have alot to do , no money to do it with but i have alot of material, and all the gear i need, if only gas prices would go down, gee, that would really help.
in the end i see the light, i got ticked off and for that i can only beg your pardon. brian and marc, you are good men. and thanx to all for the input.

david

Well, I for one, am very glad to read the post you just put up, David!! And welcome back! It seems you took off not long after I got started around here, and I was able to listen to some of your work... you are very good! And it seems you've been a positive influence here on the boards, so I look forward to getting to know you a bit!

--Jen

hi jen, what a nice welcome back. thanx. i want to get back into this , but not right now. just too much going on with this new focus, performing again. i have found posting songs here to be inspirational in that i write new stuff just to post(it seems that way at least) and i tend to be attracted to co writing projects that are very time consuming for me so my focus gets to be just with jpf stuff. thanx for your very positive input, really appreciate it.

take care,
david

Playing live shows trumps sitting at a computer!

Go for it.

Welcome back, David. Good luck at the open mics and the public performances. Keep us posted on your progress.

Hey David,

Good to hear that you're back. Also nice chatting with you privately. I don't think this is an "all or nothing" type deal. You don't do "only internet marketing" or "ONLY" live performance. It is a combination of all of it. Live performance is your initial contact with most people. That is how you start.

That hopefully drives people to your sites, your music, and hopefully they share it with others. That is pretty much what everyone who does this now does. They promote themselves in every availible resource, from doing demos, live shows, You Tube, web sites. That is the way you build fan base. I think if you take it in measured doses, you will do fine.

MAB

hi, first thanx colin(amen to that), tom,dan, and marc for your comments and welcome backs. marc, funny you should be here mentioning this stuff as it is exactly the stuff i was going to comment on . i just got finished reviewing info from "grassrootsy",(i don't know how to "link" stuff or i would) a web site thingy i got involved with lately. they send periodic emails with really good info about how to be an indie artist. i was going to say that what i am slowly absorbing into mt 59 year old noggin is pretty much juct what you said marc. over the past couple of weeks i have been wondering, how do i do this! i've got to work on a web presense big time(thanx to dan sullivan i now have a little web presense on you tube with my cover of his song,"MARIA"S SONG"), and that represents a major learning curve for me. the biggest revelation(and i'm so embarrased to have to admit i still need to learn this, don't tell anyone)is that it will take ALOT of work to get myself from the local open mic circuit to the next level of regional folk circuit/and even the nursing home circuit. speaking of which, i've played a few of these before, more importantly, i've worked in many of them as an aid and i can tell you the people in these places(regardless of what the billboards depict) are BORED STIFF1 these are great places to play, only a one hr. set is required due to they're schedualing and they all have "activities" people who are usually eager to get entertainment into the facility. so if you are looking for a gig. concider the nursing home circuit.( i know this may not be very glamorous but these people really appreciate having some entertainment way more than most places so the vibes are always good even if it's a little hard to tell sometimes) so i press on. did an open mic at a local bar sunday nite. once again i was the very last person to play due to getting there late. the responce i get is very encouraging,always need lots of that. hope to post a new song or two soon. thanx again for all the input from everyone. i do appreciate it.

cheers, david

David--

In what ever you do MUSICALLY, mix a little fun in with songs, and remember--you do it because you LOVE IT--

Something I wrote a long time ago--


SIDE BY SIDE
Mackie

Every writer here has the same dream
We close our eyes read the marquee
Won’t be too long until we’re rich
After we’ve penned that monster HIT”
But make-believe is our fantasy
And night after night we play for free.


No, we don’t make lots of money,
Writing songs both sad and funny
Under those bright stage lights
We sing loud and play our hits
In the ROUND again tonight
………………….SIDE BY SIDE.


An old song WAS THE TEMPLATE--SIDE BY SIDE written in 1925

WRITE AND PLAY ON

I remember that one:

We don't have a lot of money
Maybe that's still funny
So we travel along, singing a song
Side by side.

Wasn't that Irving Berlin?

MAB

Can't remember his name without Googling Marc, but it wasn't Irving Berlin.

BTW, Irving Berlin couldn't read music. Self-taught on piano. Played mostly on the black keys. His arranger would write down his ideas, sometimes only a whistled melody which the arranger would add chords to.

Later someone invented a pedal that would transpose the key for Berlin (who usually worked in the key of F# - mostly black keys).

So many great songs. What would Christmas be without "White Christmas"?

John

John,

I was making a joke. I remember that old Broadway song "Side By Side" and was using it up against Makie's song, which has some of the same lines. Just kind of a joke. We all write songs that we find out were big hits in previous eras and we never saw it until someone points it out to us and then we are kind of "Oh my GOD I never thought about that!!!" Just having a little fun.

MAB

hi, thanx mackie for the good words. well i scored my first gig this year. played the open mic last nite at courthouse commons coffee house in carlise,pa later asked again about when they would start booking for the fall. they gave me an "open date" so i can decide the date. pretty cool, it usually isn't that easy. last nite a very top notch harmonica player asked to set in with me(this guy is about as good as it gets) and we plan to hook up again at the open mic at a bar up the road sunday nite. i'm going to concentrate on getting booked at these two spots for now. there is some real talent in this area, i've played open mic's in four states and i haven't seen such a concentration of very good singers, players or writers in any of those places as i have seen here. of course i've never played a nashville open mic. sooo, this seems like a very good area with plenty of oportunity. this harp player was telling me about a friend of his who books all the acts for a big, local bluegrass festival for the past 15 years, i would love doing an opening act thing at a festival. i hoping something will come of it.

cheers,david (hey, marc and john, well how about that, i have something common with irving berlin, who would have thot!!)

Yeah, I know Marc. Just got side-tracked on that Irving Berlin thing. He wrote so many songs that people start believing he wrote everything in the 30's & 40's.

Best, John

hi again, i started thinking more on what you said mackie, not making much money, i'm sooo familiar with that situation,i'll feel right at home lol, if i can eventually even make a supplimental income via music, well, i would feel like i hit the big time! my real goal is to be able to play,write and perform exclusively without a day job sapping my strength. wow would that be a gas. being mostly under-employed now,spending most of my spare time fooling with music, hey, i'm almost there, maybe i'm a success and don't know it!just kidding. but money, never loved the stuff, i'm content to get by, i'm just pass'n thru. i just want art to be my ride, i'll work hard though, no worries there. a guy that hosted an open mic i attended the other week was asking me, are you married, no, any family commiments, no, kids are grown, just me and my two dogs. well he says, don't let anything stop you. man did a light bulb go on in my noggin. i have nothing and no one stopping me but me. so if i don't do something with the talents i have, such as they are, i have no one to blame but me. i'm at perfect stage in life to try to make something of this. little goals, day at a time, step at a time. thats my motto, and i'll add your advice to it.. "have fun"!

cheers, david

David,

The key to music is "finding your niche." I know many people that have carved out their own territories. They play bars, happy hours, retirements homes, do children's festivals, etc. There are a lot of different avenues for music and you have to find the one you fit into.

The one thing I would caution you on would be the "I just want to play music and not have a day job." That is the hard one.

I have continually talked about a phenomnen I noticed when I first moved to Nashville, that of hit writers with multiple businesses. Almost no one derives their entire income from music alone. They own rental houses, plumbing businesses, are partners in resturants and bars, are producers for other people, session musicians, involved in pyramid schemes. The weird thing for me was ever finding anyone who was SOLEY getting their income from music.

I have sat in writer's appointments with people with 15 platinum records facing back at me, and having to stop the writing session in order for them to go fix a plumbing problem on their rental house. I have had writing and show cancelations due to have to go back to their home town to check on their house that they are trying to sell. I get continuous emails, phone calls asking me to come to some meeting that will "Change my life" only to get in a room with a dozen former "Writers of the year" and listen to some pyramid pitch from a sales company about how to multiply your income by bundeling cable and satallite services.

Even one of the writers I work with who currently has one of the few publishing deals in Nashville with one of the biggest stars out there. She is paid to write, and come to Nashville each month. But the beginning deals are not a panacea. They are not enough to raise a family on. That comes after you start selling product. So she has taken to being a costume and set designer for bands. And reality is that she will probably make more money from that than she ever will from songwriting.

In the clubs, there is nothing like doing a show where Nobody shows up and the club owner complaining about the lawsuits against him, the new regulations and oh by the way, "we didn't make enough money to pay you tonight. Sorry."

This is why for the most part music is for the young. When you don't have family and bills on you, you can do this, make very little money, live in your car, eat raman noodles and be happy because you have never had the other stuff. You don't know what you're missing. But you also don't have a wife constantly complaining that she is going to leave if you don't quit what you are doing. She wants a new couch. So don't even THINK about using that money on demos.

People go into it thinking they are going to sell fifty CD's a night, get paid for what they do and everyone will be happy. Then you find out reaity is selling one CD for a reduced price because everyone is "tapped out."

I want you to get out there. Perform as much as you can. Enjoy yourself. Record your music and get it on the Net. Do your CD's and be proud of what you do.

But I would keep the expectations reasonable. That old expression "Don't Quite your Day Job" is quite appropriate. You work your day job and then music as a "Second business" until it takes over being able to pay all your bills. But not until that happens. I have seen too many "Midlife crises, sell the house, buy the RV, get out to "see America and perform MY MUSIC" only to find out that the house buyers backed out, trashed the house, the RV breaks down and they can't find gigs that are not taken by some 20 year old college kid who will bring his 30 Fraternity brothers in to play for free beer.

The job market in music has expanded in ways and shrunk in others. There is more music and artists out there and more listeners. But getting them to pay for it in a buyers market is another thing altogether.

Retirement homes are a wonderful thing. I have done a few but always afraid they'll try to keep me in as one of the residents. After the years I have been doing this, they are more and more my age bracket. Insurance companies won't let me play because they are afraid I'll fall and break my hip. Bu du du dump!!!! LOL!

In reality, you are doing fine. Check out things around you. Be methodical. Look at areas within a 100 mile range. See what the opportunties are. Don't expect to make money at first. Build up to it. It could take a while so be prepared for that. You might find driving four hours, setting up a pa, performing four hours, taking down and driving back for money that barely covers gas, might not feed your soul as much as you thought it would. The gig might last a little while but the backaches last for weeks. LOL!

MAB

hi marc, great advice all around, and i have experianced that lovely situation you mentioned. i'll never forget my 3 hr gig at the "soulful cup" in corning new york, 3 hr round trip in a sleet storm , no one showed up and the guy hands me 15 bucks. i thot the bit about the day job was probably not a good thing to mention. i am in fact working on an income stratigy to compensate me. actually the past five years i've been getting by as a house painter/finisher. thing is i have a messed up knee that prevents me from doing a full time gig in those fields and i had to quit the aid work as well, so i'm in the midst of a play for disability, never thot i'd do that but i got to. so if that happens then i should be good,adding part-time jobs and maybe some money from music. believe me, i hear what you are saying, i do. when i start walking in wonderland my own inner voice starts speaking , like, hey dave, wake up up buddy. i know at my age i'm not going too far in music. thing that scares me is my voice goes out on me far easier than it ever did. but man i got to try to make something happen.i just don't want to go down without a fight. i like the hundred miles radius idea.
the reason i poped in at this time was to say i may not get back here for awhile, my computer is really giving me problems. took me almost an hour to get on line. so if you don't hear from me for awhile thats why. i have no clue how to fix this thing, i think i let something in the other day when i clicked on this update thing that came on the screen. it's been acting up ever since then . maybe it will resolve itself. i just wanted to inform anyone who may drop by hear that if i don't respond, that's why. thanx for the advice marc, i'm hearing you. take care.

shalom, david

I learn the hard way about short runs. Before I produced my first Cd lots of people always said what a great voice I have, and if I had music even on some trips I made. When the Cds finally got here (1000) many of them disappeared. I still have 500 with me. I give away a lot when I do live shows.

Luckily, I had some companies sponsor parts of the project so most of the cost didn't come out of my pocket.

Currently, I am recording again and just releasing singles. my next project will be 2012 and 8-10 tracks maximum. Doing only 200 copies.

I still like to read inserts, with lyrics but that's my personal opinion and will do so for my projects, I think it adds to the quality of the product.

All the best...

Hold on to them Stephen. In 50 years they may become collector items like our band the "Vestells" : http://northeastbeast.blogspot.com/2011/03/vestells-wont-you-tell-me.html

The original 45's are selling for $60- $80. Of course, we're not making any money from it. I have 12 copies left. I'll hold on to them for another 50 years. Maybe then they'll be selling for $100.

John

I think the harsh reality that Brian posted is what we artists don't want to hear. Even if our deluded minds don't see that we are never going to make a worthy pound we still want to live the dream. It's what gets us through our day jobs. Making music is the one thing that I and many others live for. Do we want our hopes & dreams dashed in one post? Of course not. Should we get real, yeah of course we should. We just don't like to hear it.
I live every day single day with 'The Dream' and 'The Plan' in my mind. I come from a belief system that the more I focus the more the universe will provide. And it's true.

Just this year my co-writer & I have written 8 new great songs on the cuff of a belief pattern that we CAN succeed. I work as a Police officer in London and of all the places that I could imagine to raise my profile I did not ever think that at work could be one of them.

Two months ago I joined a new team. When I got there I found out that they liked to do fundraising events for charity. To cut a long story short I offered to donate sales of one of my songs to the event and now things are flying. We're going to be in a charity video, we're going to have a massive campaign to get us in the charts etc etc. What made me join that Police team at that time?

It's so exciting and I'm really trying to keep level headed but my LOVE of music and absolute desire to succeed are driving me more than ever. But if I hadn't told you any of that you might just think i'm another wannabee and in actual fact I am. I haven't made it yet, It's quite conceivable that I won't ever make it but the place that I am in my mind is the most amazing place that I have been in so far and I will do anything to keep that going. Would I want a reality check right now?

My point is, even if we sometimes need a reality check, we also don't want to be shot down. I remember giving David Kissinger a bad critique a few months back. I don't think he liked it from memory and I felt bad for doing it. His next song I actually really liked so I felt happy to give him praise but it's consistency that I feel we all lack here on this site.

The MP3 boards are full of lots of very average tracks IMO. Do we really tell people the harsh truth or do we just lend them some ideas to direct them to a better direction? Mostly we're all nice because when it comes to the time when we want feedback we want good things said about our own work.
I've said it before & I still believe it. For a site like this to truly be the musicians friend it should have an A&R type section where the truth gets spelled out, where the harsh reality exists where the critiques comes only from a chosen select few who have nothing to lose.

My overall point is aimed at Brian's first post. Yes reality checks are needed and your point is very valid but if feel sorry for David a little because he got it full in the face. Realistically he just wanted some advice about recording a CD and putting it out there to maybe get a CD sale here and there. A sense of achievement. I don't think he said "I wanna be a mega rich rockstar" If he had done then I would have expected your post but I think you could have created a new post and highlighted the same points.

James

I've only just read this last page. oops. Well DMK has changed his plans now.

Just read Marc's last post. I'm going to take a reality check now. LOL

God it's going to be hard.

It sounds like you have a good idea of where you are going....

Tom

The biggest things artits suffer from are overreaching and unrealistic expectations. They think that just because they have recorded some songs and put them on a web site that people are just going to "show up." Nope. That takes being out there and live performing so people meet you face to face. There is some people discovering you online, but with thirty million artists and one billion songs a month on the net, that is not very likely.

So doing everything from local charity events, social gatherings,
building one fan at a time is what you do. When you sell a CD do you thank them, get to know them a little, make sure you have their internet information, drop them an email, thanking them? Well you need to get into that habit of that. The point of social networking is to make personal contact with your fans. When they get something personal from you, it makes them more willing to tell other people about you. To show up at the next show. To tell other people, so forth and so on.

This is what you have to do all the time. The days of "well do a show and they'll show up.." are done. Now artists are spending hours on line with Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, and every other new service that comes up. They are on CD Baby, Reverb Nation, etc. They are out in the public every few days. It is a full time job. And if you have another full time job, you have to find a way to share the time.

Now you know why most music is for the young and unnattached.

None of this is easy and there is a LOT OF COMPETITION. But often, like Golf, you are mostly competiting with yourselves. Did you sell two CD's today? Sell four tomorrow. Did 25 people come to your last show? You have to have 50 the next time.

Do that over and over EVERY SINGLE day and you have a career. Try to skip through to the "what will we wear on the television show?" and you are destined to fail.

That is why the definition of "Making it" is very subjective. "Making it" for most people are continuing to move forward, making money at what they love or at least not losing money. Building fan base, making friends for life.

Other people can never be satisfied. It is part of my contention that the problems with someone like Amy Winehouse is never being satisfied with any level they get to. And why I have very little patience for those kinds of "tragic ends" stories. You had your opportunties, you reached the stars, you blew it. End of story. I don't have any compassion.

My personal definition of success for myself is being able to give out this type of information, which might not be what everyone wants to hear, but is the truth. And for the most part I am paid for it. If it helps one person sharpen their focus, then I have "made it."

Always stay at it, move forward.
Never let your highs be too high, or lows be too low.
Probably for anything that you do, you ARE "MAKING IT" in someone else's eyes. Never take that for granted.
With talent comes responsibilities. Touch other people's lives positively and you will do fine. Get self absorbed and you are in trouble.

Try not to suck.

MAB

James makes an interesting point about critiques....I kinda agree.....I adopt the attitude that it is nice to be nice but nicer in the long run to be truthful and nice. Whilst some people want back patting and wonderful things said it is better to learn what is wrong so it can be fixed. Yes say what is good but do not forget to bring out the negs...in a nice way.

There are different types of critiques. There are peer to peer, professional, solicited and unsolicited, etc. Some can come from places like this, online, some come from other writers, the general public. The best critique is when the general public says "Where can I get that record?" That is truely the best form of critique.

There should be some "back patting." Lord knows we get enough of the kicking. So telling someone they are doing a good job,staying focused, working at it, is important. But it is also important to balance that with the truth. If you can point out the negatives and the positives in songs and approach, thereby giving the truth with a "spoonful of sugar" always can help to correct some things without breaking spirit.

MAB

I've learned that too. I actually desire the harsh critiques. I know when if have an ordinary song people usually say "It's nice, it's a nice song". For me that word "nice" is the giveaway that the song is ordinary and a hint that it needs more work.

I have reconstructed my entire plan back down to earth where I am aware of my weakness and strength. Where I know that I'm not going to be that mega star. There are a few people I will go to that cut through all the crap and give it to me. My lecturers, fellow more experienced musicians and a couple friends who really care about music.

You're right Marc speak the truth in Love always builds the spirit instead of breaking it.

hi, seems this has taken on a life of it's own, cool! james thanx for the kind and understanding words they are appreciated. hey that sounds great , having heard your singing/songs, if anyone should have sucess in this field, well it's a sin if you don't have it. well my computer problems seem to be with comcast(the provider) and it effects not just my computer but the tv and my cousins computer to . sometimes i can get on line, sometimes not. so i managed to get on line this morning and thot i'd drop by to check this post. about marc's and everyones else's advice, it served the purpose and i am now glad for it. i have my first gig in six months at this coffee house where i have been doing the open mic. 2nd week of sept. as far as success goes, i agree with marc 100 percent, ya can't eat the horns. when i used to bow hunt(i was always a meat hunter) i concidered meat on the table to represent a sucessful hunt, rather than a set of horns on the wall. this little gig will represents "making it" at the level i belong to and no doubt will remain at but if i don't give up but forge ahead and accept what providence provides then i've made it and count it a career. that may be laughable to some, but that's they're problem, i relish any chance, any open door. when i used to make my living handcrafting custom archery gear i never made alot of money, but i know to live with-in my means. but i was doing what i loved to do and it brought something to my life that money alone could never give me. freedom to be my own man doing something that gave me alot of joy and happyness. if thru music i can gain my liberty then that, and not the money or any glory(greatly over rated stuff)will represent making it. if i can get this nursing home thing up and going then ,hey, it is concievable that i could actually make a decent income from it and you don't have to worry at all about and audiance showing up. so my goals are more sane but in my opinion do_able, day at time step at a time, and hey i'm excited about the potential this area i'm in has. one final bit of info to share. my poor old taylor guitar has had a broken truss rod for about two years and i have playing these cheap guitars which are ok but now i want something much better. turns out it's only going to cost me$180.00 to get the neck re-fitted with 2 carbon fiber rods. plus 6 new frets to replace the worn ones. i share purely out of ,how can i say it, exuberance! i thot it would cost me a fortune. i'm really happy to get my best ax back in service.

cheers to all,

david

David, Congratulations on getting the gigs. Especially the nursing home gigs. They're an appreciative audience. Sounds like you're on a roll.

hi dan, thanx, man, i just did a blues open mic in mechanicsburg ,pa tonite. made some good contacts, got to be the "lead player" and hooked up with a really good bass player who may set in with me on my little gig at the coffee house in sept. hope so, this guy is hot and he'll draw a bigger crowd than i would. i really want to post some of my new stuff soon. been getting into towns van zandt and steve earl alot lately, will cover some of their stuff, what great song writers..adios.

david

I was thinking of doing the same thing, make money with my music off the internet, but my stroy is differnet. I'm raising a family and had almost abandoned my dreams long ago of "making it" in the business. I was looking for nothing big, just a chance to share my music and hopefully make a living from it. Lots of sites let you post your music and videos and I have mine on a few, including my own, but because of money issues, my progress has been slow. I havne't put my heart into it enough I realize, but that'll change. There are sites that let you raise money through your fan base like Pledgemusic and Kickstarter. and it's free to start a campaign. I've thought of doing this to raise money.
David, good luck to you and your hope you find the success you're looking for!

Olivia,

The current state of the music industry could best be described as "trying to sell buckets of sea water while adrift in a boat in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean." Everybody has so much to begin with. Those of us who are professionals in this industry saw this coming a long time back and have been dealing with it for many years as we saw ilegal downloading simply erase our way of life.

What we have now is adaptation. But it is quite the same as it always has been. Music is mostly a face to face personal experience. The problem with so much of the Internet is that there are SO many people out there doing the same thing. Everyone is online, everyone has web sites, everyone is on You Tube. And the problem with people such as yourself, artists I work with, and even myself, who have created a "niche" around myself with teaching and consulting people in the industry, is "how do you get people to pay for anything with a glut of "free product out there?"

But there is help with the Internet. You can research what other people in similar situations have done and try to emulate them. In your niche, New Age ,maybe a smaller audience but more compact. Check out places where people go to relax or get therapy of some kind.

The personal touch with live fans is what is the difference, and the Internet can only go so far to doing that. It is a buisness that no matter what level you are at, you have to "get out of the living room." You can build it with the net, but with over one billion songs a month uploaded and over 30 million artists out there, it is virtually impossible that people will just stumble upon you in random searches. That is what people are saying when "you have to have something to drive people to your site."

Sites like "Kickstart" and other sites, can be good if you have a beginning following, but you really have to start there. Find out where the music you are interested in exists already, find your way into the marketplace and have quality product whenever you are seen or heard.

MAB

This is a great thread. Lots of great advice in here

I will say that most of the successful musicians I've met have worked a minimum of day jobs over their lives or no day job at all. The reason being that the competition is so strong out there that is requires many years of practicing 6-7 hours a day to get that good on an instrument. This of course requires tremendous sacrifice. And then there are all the gigs where you come home at 3am with $20 in your pocket and needing to get up in the morning to practice and get better

It may be a lot different for people who are strictly songwriters. Again I'm speaking from the standpoint of a musician

Dmk,
Sounds like things are getting better! That's great! Congrats!

Marc,
What you say makes sense. Though the internet can bring people together, if everyone is doing the same thing, then that creates a problem. I admit what I've posted isn't the best video or recordings. I just really wanted to push myself to get my name out there because I know it can take years to create a following. Though I also have to face the fact that WHAT I put out should be good quality too, otherwise people won't take me serious and my chance is blown. Thank you for your advice. Very much appreciated!