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And, one more point...
It seems to me that these days, there are more politicians, on both sides of the aisle, who put Party before Country. And it sickens me.
It's led to a lot more bile and a lot of the inability to compromise that has frozen Washington and kept anything from being done.

What I see with Obama -- love him or hate him -- is the genuine desire to do what he thinks is best for the country and for the people of this country.
Whether you agree with what he thinks is right or not. He is country first.

There are a lot of Republicans who are, as well.

It's the loudmouth extremists (on both sides) who are causing the constipation.

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Oh, and Ray... I love you.
I love your passion and I hope that you take the time to consider all facts (and not just talking points) before forming your opinions.
You may very well, and I can respect that. I am just having a hard time seeing it. So, we may just be far apart.
Let's hope that we can find some middle ground, as can our leaders. So that something can get done.

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Well Todd,
I have no idea what repressing or not repressing certain people has to do with weather Ronald Reagan could be a songwriter.
However you do have a U.S. Congressman,
Two U.S. Senators,
At least one State Representive,
The Local News Paper, all you can write to and express your opinions on any number of things.
And while you're at it Todd tell em for me, To Balance the Friggin' Budget!
Yes there are certain elected reps that are more about themselves than the country, BUT, that is a whole 'nother subject!

And I have been lazy. It's been a while since I writ my paper!


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Not sure if Ronnie could've been a songwriter, but he sure could get the point across in his presentation. Don't really know about his sense of melody, you know.
wink

And balancing the budget... I would like to see that done, without a doubt. Folks down there just gotta learn to get along.


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I don't get how anyone who has listened to George W Bush and Barack Obama speak, in a press conference for instance, doesn't instantly understand that one has a command of language and the other doesn't. That fact alone doesn't make one man better than the other but if politics so bias us that we can't see or hear the obvious, then what chance is there of the necessary cooperation that is necessary to solve our problems? I vow to have no "they" in my vocabulary. "They" may wrong, but the ones who decide who "they" are- are dangerous.

John Lennon, where are you when we need you? Imagine no politics- it's easy if you try.


"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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Wow... has this thread turned political.

Todd, I agree with you regarding the lack of real Statesmen in our national legislature. I'm guessing that you and I generally have differing perspectives about government, freedom, minority groups, and the alleged right of homosexuals to "marry."

I don't intend to attempt to sway your thinking or imply that you are either right or wrong. Thank God we live in a country where we both have the right to speak our minds and to believe as we choose. We certainly agree about the need for a balanced budget. I can't run my household the way our government seems to think they can run our country fiscally. Nothing comes without a degree of cost attached to it.

As a country, we need to reign-in the big banks and their credit policies. Interest rates should be reduced to a maximum of 10% and credit should only be available to those who qualify. The government needs to close and/or privatize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They are the quagmire that bogged us down in the first place.

As previously stated, it is your right to believe so... but I hold the exact opposite opinion of our current President's intentions for this country. I believe he is anti-Christian, pro-Muslim, a believer in redistribution of wealth and thus, a quasi-communist. I will do everything legally possible within my limited sphere of influence to see that he is defeated in the next election.

I'm not implying that the previous administration(s) were much better but I believe they had better intentions for our nation.

One more thing... our judicial system pretty well sets up our judges for life... and this must stop. We endure entirely too much legislation from the bench and the will of the people has been trampled on by liberal judges. I would favor the existing appointment system for judges with congressional approval... and then allow judges to work no more than 20 years... plus having them stand for confirmation by the electorate after their fourth year on the bench. They must be held accountable. If this means that our constitution must be modified... so be it.

I'd like to see "earmarks" disappear. Make our legislators vote on one issue at a time. No more pork or pet projects for constituents or voting blocs.

Only time will tell which of us is correct. Meanwhile, I'm glad I had the opportunity to serve our country and do my limited part to defend the freedoms that you and I enjoy.

My best to you, fellow citizen. Vote often.

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Ah, Ha!,
It is really Al Capp that you need. Google Al Capp. There is, of all things, an interveiw of Al Capp and John Lennon.

Ask and ye shall receive!

Last edited by Ray E. Strode; 08/16/11 11:28 PM.

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Left and Right, Liberal and Conservative- is all just words that are like burned out shells of things that use to have meaning. EveryBODY is right, and that is why everyTHING is wrong.

The polarization is sharp in the "Right to Life and the "Right to Choose" debate. The "Right to Life" people on the extreme would tell me that if my 26 year old daughter with Down Syndrome were brutally raped, impregnated, and that going to term would be traumatic, or could even kill her; AND her baby would be born disfigured and without a brain- neither she or I has a right to terminate the pregnancy! Crazy? Yes, but many many believe that. But wait there is more! The extreme "Right to Choose" folks tell me that they have every right to abort baby as long as it is not "technically" out of the uterus. This is the same "fetus" that if were killed by a gunshot through the mother's womb would result in a murder conviction for the guy who pulled the trigger! Yes there are babies who have been aborted in the 9th month. To me it is obvious that at the extreme belief of any dogma, there is something like insanity. I want to keep my head thank you.


"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein
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http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_obamaessay.html

It was hard to find any writings of either Bush or Obama written during the college days. I did find the news article above written by Obama in 1983- I guess he was 22 and a senior at Columbia. You can decide for yourself if he can write. It is an actual image of the student newspaper so not fake and if he had a ghost writer back then..... well, that's what conspiracies are made of.

If anyone can find a sample of George Bush's writing during his college years, I would be interested in reading it. I also would like to see a sample of Clinton's writing, George Bush Sr and any of the potential candidates running next Novemb..... I mean November after next. Weird- Presidents run for 30% or more of the them they serve.


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Originally Posted by Samuel Harris
Left and Right, Liberal and Conservative- is all just words that are like burned out shells of things that use to have meaning. EveryBODY is right, and that is why everyTHING is wrong.

The polarization is sharp in the "Right to Life and the "Right to Choose" debate. The "Right to Life" people on the extreme would tell me that if my 26 year old daughter with Down Syndrome were brutally raped, impregnated, and that going to term would be traumatic, or could even kill her; AND her baby would be born disfigured and without a brain- neither she or I has a right to terminate the pregnancy! Crazy? Yes, but many many believe that. But wait there is more! The extreme "Right to Choose" folks tell me that they have every right to abort baby as long as it is not "technically" out of the uterus. This is the same "fetus" that if were killed by a gunshot through the mother's womb would result in a murder conviction for the guy who pulled the trigger! Yes there are babies who have been aborted in the 9th month. To me it is obvious that at the extreme belief of any dogma, there is something like insanity. I want to keep my head thank you.


Man, I hear you, Joe.

I think many gravitate towards extremes because it's more comfortable. They talk about slippery slopes - if we give an inch on this, who knows what will happen?

I want to say to them, "Yeah, well guess what? - Life is a slippery slope. Get the f*#k used to it!" Anybody that doesn't compromise in their personal life numerous times each day (often on something mundane and possibly not even really noticed) is a pariah or a hermit. Compromise is the grease of life.

Yet many admire politicians who refuse to compromise. The whole idea of having a two party system is that compromise is employed to arrive at a solution that everyone can live with. You can still compromise and be tough, like Tip O'Neil.

Sadly, that era has gone by the wayside. It's lack of will to negotiate tough but compromise that is killing us - not the fact that we need a third party.

Scott

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Morning Scott,
True from time to time you need to compromise. At present the U.S. Senate won't bring up bills that have been passed by the house so they, or more to the point Harry Reid refuses to compromise.

Because of the huge nearly 15 Trillion Dollar Federal debt the Republicians and Conservatives ar refusing to raise Taxes. They, and I know that once you get something passed, It never ends, hence more big government. The problem is sooner or later it will all collapse and the people it was meant to help will still be in the same boat.

SO, we need to begin to sing Reagan's song and make it a hit again!

Samuel,
Not every President will or can make great profound speeches. In fact when they try they sound kind of screwy. Abraham Lincoln mada a great speech or two. You don't have to make great speeches to be a good president.


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Ray, The Siren Song of Reagan beguiles many with its soothing blend of patriotism and capitalist anti-tax, anti-government balm. The results of Reaganism have been more than he could have hoped for: a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest Americans. Not since the Gilded Age of the Robber Barons have the top 2 percent owned as much of the nation's wealth as they do today.

I can understand why the rich and the elite still revere Reagan as if he were an American Moses. But I can't figure out why so many folks like you do.

Last edited by Dan Sullivan; 08/17/11 12:52 PM.

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Dan,
Now I like you but I don't think you understand Economics 101. Reagan cut Taxes so how does that result in transferring all the middle class "Wealth" to the rich? When Carter was President if you wanted to buy a house the interest rate was 16 percent! I know, we waited until it was only 12 percent! Then after Reagan got elected it went down to 9 Percent!

There is 2 schools of thought out there.
A. Send all your money to the Government and let them send it where they think it should go. The Soviet Model.
B. Keep more of your money and spend it as you see fit.

So Dan, are you closer to the Nanny State or Individual Freedom?
I think the Union's we/they are closer to the Nanny State. Witness the argument in Wisconsin and the Public Unions. At one time the worst unemployment figures was in your state, Michigan. What caused that Dan? Individual Freedom or the Nanny State?
Keep on trucking Dan. There are no more Robber Barons, if there ever were.

Actually it was great Entrepreneurs that built this country. Now some people want to tear them down.

When you go anywhere to buy something, food, gas, gorceries, clothes, autos, tools, computers. etc, etc, etc, it is right there in good supply. Thank a Robber Barron Dan.


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It's not as simple as either of you paint it out to be.
And, I am not going to pretend to understand the whole of the economic workings of any system, but I DO understand, that it's not quite that simple.

Look at Canada. Look at the UK. Look at Germany (the most-prosperous of the European countries). Would you call any of those countries Socialist? Purely Capitalist?

No.
It's clear that a good mix of elements of both systems are needed, but the magic formula seems to be pretty elusive.

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Originally Posted by PopTodd
It's clear that a good mix of elements of both systems are needed, but the magic formula seems to be pretty elusive.


Yep.

Pure socialism does not work. Pure capitalism is unstable. I think the reason our country has been so successful is that it has used some socialistic elements to moderate capitalism. This is what allowed the creation of a large middle class.

The problem now is that people can't even seem to agree on which side the pendulum is swinging to. I happen to believe that the capitalistic nature of our country has become unconstrained. Yet others think we are moving to a socialist status. We won't be able to find the right balance until people agree on where we are...

Scott

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With me it is not as much how strong or controversial the ideologies. I definitely have mine. It is that those ideologies are looked at more as talking points in to win that politicians base. I like some of these conservatives in their campaigne that speak without a teleprompter or political handlers advice with everything.
As much as they might contradict themselves it does seem to say something about leadership. A heartfelt song would also be nice though.

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Whatever happened to politicians doing what their constituents asked for them to do when they were elected? In the case of the budget battle, the "tea party" Reps were elected by citizens who were fed up with out of control spending, at least citizens with that mind set showed up at the ballot box in larger numbers. Ask Arlen Specter about that. Their loyalty lies with the majority of the electorate. Not in compromise. It used to be called Democracy. Now it's called "playing politics". Go figure.

In my opinion, to compromise is the epitome of "playing politics", and not doing what the majority of voters asked you to do when you were elected.

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Originally Posted by ben willis
Their loyalty lies with the majority of the electorate. Not in compromise.


What happens when the other side has the same attitude? Particularly when the two houses of Congress are split?

Never mind, I already know the answer. Or, rather, my retirement portfolio does. Good thing I'm not old enough to retire right now. smile

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Originally Posted by Scott Campbell
Originally Posted by ben willis
Their loyalty lies with the majority of the electorate. Not in compromise.


What happens when the other side has the same attitude? Particularly when the two houses of Congress are split?
Scott


I would be perfectly happy with that. The less that Congress does, the less intrusive they on our lives.

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Originally Posted by Ray E. Strode
Well Pop Todd,
I have been seeing a Depression coming long before it started getting mentioned in the news. And Pogo was right. We have met the Enemy, and he is.....


No depression without consent. Take a lesson from Quantum Physics. At the most elemental level, the electron isn't there if we aren't looking at it. And the depression isn't there unless you stare at the hole too long. We will get what we are looking for. FDR was more correct than he even knew when he said "All we have to fear is fear itself". It doesn't take a Quantum physicist to figure out that Wall street runs of public perception. Except for the fact that we are using up our natural resources and that we are in fact damaging our environment, there isn't anything about our economic situation that isn't entirely a mental construction and our own perceptions.

The economy is nothing more than human activity. Fear kills it. Government policy doesn't really kill it. The first mistake we make is to think that money not sent to Afghanistan or Somalia is money that can pay down the US debt. Quite the contrary. Every time we put something into action, be it launch a rocket to Mars or build a school in Afghanistan, we are making the economy work. The government can actually spend it's way to a recovery- and I know half of you reading this think I am off my rocker.

But if you understand that the economy is nothing more than human beings in action, it is easy to "get it". If you design a rocket- you get paid- the contract goes out- Boeing gets paid- the rocket fuel guy gets paid, the titanium fabricator gets paid and buys a $4.00 Starbuck. He gives a tip to the college student who handed it to him. She pays her tuition etc. etc. The government taxes all this activity and it get paid. It is very simple. World War 2 brought the US out of the depression because we ramped up everything. It's not Rocket Science.

You can make the economy run on anything- even a vice just look at Los Vegas NV. The key thing to watch is: Are people in motion or are they sitting on their asses.


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Post removed.....

Last edited by Scott Campbell; 08/18/11 01:05 AM.
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Scott,
For your information, Albert Einstein never quite believe Quantum Physics. You've probably heard the quote of his: "God doesn't play dice with the Universe"? He was challenging Quantum Physics and he died doubting it. There isn't a physicist alive today that doubts the correctness or the implications of Quantum physics. In fact, they are designing the next generation of computers using that science. The point I was making was with a metaphysical metaphor because once you understand that everything is mental, then you have to watch not only what you say but what you think.


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That wasn't fair Scott. Now what I just wrote has no reference argument.


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Well guess what folks. Our wonderful President will give his 12th jobs speech (revised I guess) as soon as he returns from his vacation in Martha's Vineyard. Just like a man of the people.

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Samuel, Thanks for the lesson in Keynsian economics. Let's get the jobless off their couches. There's plenty of work to be done in the country. As Ed Schultz say, "Lets get to work."


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Ben, Relax. You've got nothing to worry about. The Republicans will do everything they can to make sure not one job gets created until after next year's election.


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Dan, who is Ed Schultz?
Please enlighten us on this wonderful mind.

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Ben, He's the leftwing host of the Ed Schultz show on MSNBC every night at 10 p.m. A salt of the earth, beer drinking, outdoorsman type who sticks up for the middle class. I don't think you'll like him.


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Originally Posted by Jen Warner
Originally Posted by Samuel Harris


And this IS hilarious... how do you find this stuff?!


O M G... that might the funniest and most apropos post of the century!

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Originally Posted by Samuel Harris
That wasn't fair Scott. Now what I just wrote has no reference argument.


LOL - I removed mine because it didn't make any sense after you edited yours. smile

I was just making a joke - imagine your post with nothing but the quote box with Ray's quote and then the tag in your signature. That's all that was visible when I typed my post.

Actually I agree with you regarding spending our way out of a recession. History is on your side too.

Scott

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What I find truly funny is we have a President who tells people exactly what they want to hear and promises them everything they always wanted and does it with beautifully written speeches he reads off a teleprompter...
And has accomplished absolutely nothing, has not delivered on a single promise in almost three years except raise our debt, grow our government, and piss off our allies.
And these people still support him.
Now that is funny.

Or on second thought maybe it's sad.


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When the two sides agree on something that seems to be the time to most worry.
Stonewalling can be a great incentive for the locals to try and whip themselves in shape.

There is not that coffee shop politician anymore unfortunately.

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Aw Humm,
THE ELECTRON ISN'T THERE UNLESS YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT.Was that the quote? I guess you have never got in a car, in dead of winter slid across the seat and got the *hit shocked out of you. OK, maybe it was just my imagination. I can see I've got to get more real! I see the Annointed one's popularity is down to about 29 percent. BUT, he probably won't feel a thing when he slides across that seat!


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What might be President Obama's fatal flaw is that he's tried to negotiate with people who are out to destroy him and are willing to do great harm to the economy and the American people to accomplish their goal.

The way to handle cutthroats is to follow the example of the citizens of Ohio, who put over a million signatures on a recall petition to overturn an anti-union bill rammed through the legislature and quickly signed by a Tea Party governor. Polls show an overwhelming majority will vote to overturn that legislation this November, only months after it was passed.

Now that's how democracy should work in a Republic. President Obama needs to take a cue from the citizens of Ohio and stand up to the Boehners, McConnells and Cantors in Congress, not try to reason with them.


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Dan,
The Elections in New Jersey, Wisconsin, Ohio and other places were and are about bloated Pension Funds and the money running out, and then there will be none. You have heard the story of the Golden Goose. If not Google it and read it. Aesop was pretty sharp. And, the people in Ohio vote wrong from time to time, but they usually fix it in the next election.

And Dan, Governor Kasich was a Union Democrat at one time. He saw the handwriting on the wall, why can't you see it? That Reagan song is beginning to rise up the Charts once again. Today unemployment went up again. BUT, the Anointed one has a Plan. To be revealed in September!


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Below is the an excerpt from an interview of Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz by Piers Morgan last night on CNN. Listen to his sense of reason in our present crisis. You will see that the answer is confidence and benevolence on the part of government and business.

Fixing this economy is perfectly achievable. All is not lost. We don't have to dive into a depression that will require WW3 to get us out. Fearful,shameful spiteful, childish minds occupy Washington right now. Fearful, greedy, short sighted mind occupy too many CEO offices in business. We vote and we buy so we are the only thing that keeps them in power- so we are not powerless.

It is really interesting times we are living in so everybody please think constructively.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuoJzt9UoR8


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Originally Posted by Scott Campbell
Originally Posted by Samuel Harris
That wasn't fair Scott. Now what I just wrote has no reference argument.


LOL - I removed mine because it didn't make any sense after you edited yours. smile

I was just making a joke - imagine your post with nothing but the quote box with Ray's quote and then the tag in your signature. That's all that was visible when I typed my post.

Actually I agree with you regarding spending our way out of a recession. History is on your side too.

Scott

I get it Scott. I usually have to edit something after I read because of grammar or spelling. I may have added something. But I forgot that I actually have a quote by A. Einstein in my quote box.

A note about A.E. Next to Mark Twain, he is my favorite biographical character. I've read many books about him and my favorite is "The Universe and Dr. Einstein" by Lincoln Kinnear Barnett. It is short and clear. I read the English translation of Einstein's papers on Special and General Relativity (originally written in German). He writes more clearly than most of the people who try to explain the theory. To be honest, I don't follow some the math (when he get into space/time matrices) but most of the math is not extremely difficult. You can follow with just a little patience and knowledge of Algebra 2. He didn't particularly like math. His genius was his burning curiosity and his ability to imagine the unseen world using "though experiments". He hated formal education and who can blame him, and it hasn't changed much in 132 years since he was born.

If you ever wondered how he drew this conclusion: E=MC2, and especially how light (C in mc2) figured into it , you can actually follow it without being a mathematician.


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Ray, The Goose that laid the Golden Eggs is a good metaphor for these economic and political times. Just remember that it was the Middle Class that produced all those Golden Eggs the owner got rich off. And it was Greed that caused him to destroy the very source of his wealth.


The Goose With the
Golden Eggs
One day a countryman going to the nest of his Goose
found there an egg all yellow and glittering. When he
picked it up it was as heavy as lead and he was going to
throw it away because he thought a trick had been played
upon him. But he took it home on second thought, and
soon found to his delight that it was an egg of pure gold.
Every morning the same thing occurred, and he soon
became rich by selling his eggs. As he grew rich he grew
greedy; and thinking to get at once all the gold the
Goose could give, he killed it and opened it, only to find
nothing.


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Ha, Ha,
Well you got it wrong Dan. But play it your way. About 42 States are in the Red with their Budgets so something has to be done to keep the faith with the populus, hence adjusting the Pensions.

The Goose that laid the Golden Egg is the Companies, that did all the hard work so people had a place to work and prosper. Now if all the work to build a company wasn't done there would be no place for people to work. But, the Unions, demanded more than was feasable and so Killed the Goose to get all the Profits. Since the companies couldn't pay any more the Goose is now dead.
But have it your way. Ride that horse right into the ground.And when your company moves to China, or India, don't wonder why. You killed the Golden Goose.


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My question is why, what, when, where, and how was the goose killed? And who killed it.

There is certainly a lot of blame to go around but the one who designed the guillotine was David X. Li, a mathematician who developed the Gaussian copula function, a program to manage highly complex risk in stock, bond and real estate markets. He was up for a Nobel prize.

All the big banks and investment house used his model algorithms to model their investment risk, whether they understood the system or not.

In 2008, the complexity of the market created by the use of the Gaussian copula function out ran the ability of it to accommodate the (shocking) data. The function couldn't address it and system collapsed.

Li thought his Gaussian copula function program was helping run a smooth economy but the greedy people who used it were doing so because they could take greater and greater risk- not just manage risk.

It is a story a lot like Dr.Joseph Guillotin, the French surgeon who thought the various brutal sloppy execution were too gruesome. So he designed a quicker, surer way to do it. He didn't know it would be used to do more executions and become the epitome of gruesome. Li didn't know his function would be used to bring down the world economy.

To Einstein's credit, he was a scientist that did understand his discoveries could bring down, not only the world economy, but all of mankind.


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Ray, We'll just have to agree to disagree. You'll defend the owners and I'll defend the geese. But I'll have to say you remind me of the kid who murders his parents and then pleads for mercy from the court because he's an orphan.


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Aw, yes,
I remenmber it well. Yousmite got a third grade education, went to work, joined the **** and then wanted to tell the company how to run it's business.

Clermite, went to college learned how to build a sucessful business, borrowed the money and opened a small business. He had a few partners as well. After some time the business began to get on it's feet and began to prosper. The workers were getting a fair but small wage.

Then Yousmite and the other third graders demanded better wages. But the company operating on a thin edge as was didn't have the extra dough to dole out to the workers. So Yousmite and his fellow workers went on strike. Finally the business closed it's doors because they couldn't pay anymore.

A buddy of mine went on strike at the place he worked, for better wages. He was out 6 months. I asked him what he got out of it. He said about 600 dollars was all. There was a lot of anamosity in that town as it wasn't a union town. He got a lot of flack for his efforts.

Today, 18 Aug, 2011 the Stock Market went down over 400 points because of fear and ucertainty out there. And unemployment went up again. It isn't me disagreeing Dan, It's the whole world.


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Hi fellow students of political science and the national economy:

I promised myself to walk away from this thread but it's gotten very interesting... so, old dumb-*** is gonna enter the conversation one more time.

I have no doubt that my words will not change the minds of those of you on the opposite side of the great divide... LOL!

Many years ago, when I managed an automation firm in Arlington, Texas... I attended a business seminar at TCU in Ft. Worth. One evening, the professor went into great lengths about how GM (General Motors) was the backbone of the American economy and would be the most solid investment an individual could ever make.

All the while, our legislators in Washington kept passing laws favoring unions, pensions, organization and just about anything in the kitchen sink to guarantee votes from the Teamsters and UAW for the Democratic Party. Bloated retirement funds began to make all automakers very top heavy and non-competitive. To stir the mix even more, these same lawmakers began to invite the Japanese Auto Industry to establish factories here. Most settled in "right to work" states and avoided unions for a sufficient time to allow them to gain a foothold and begin to beat the sox out of our auto makers.

You know the rest of the story. Sure, it took about 50 years but we just went through a bail-out caused by government in a multitude of ways. (Anyone ever heard of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?) These two towers of stupidity began to hand out mortgages to unqualified potential voters knowing full well that a significant number would end up in a real mess. More proof of the ineptitude of our government.

What about the national "do not call law and program" established a few years ago. I signed up and it helped for a little while. Lately, we get at least 4 calls per day from telemarketers and politicians (of both parties) ignoring the law and irritating the absolute hell out of me.

Guys and gals, we don't need more government. We don't need more taxes. Who was the idiot that decided to tax the profits I may have made investing in the stock market? Naturally, if I lose, they don't let me have credit on my income tax. Mark my words, the water we drink and the air we breathe will be taxed not long after I have been planted in the nearest skull orchard. (They will probably figure out a way to tax us for dying... and will assure that old folks like me die quickly in the "unread Obamacare Bill" that was never opened to fair discussion between Democrats and Republicans.)

Curse the tea party all you want. Call them racists and trouble makers. I can imagine what the Occupying British Government thought of the folks who wrote the declaration of independence... but we need a third party 'cause the two we are saddled with are crooked to the core. It's just that the dumb damn democrats are the most crooked in my humble opinion. The inept republicans at least mean well.

The "battle cry" for the next election will be "anyone but Obama!"

Finally... what's wrong with being rich? Isn't that the ultimate American dream? Why should a rich person pay a larger percentage of taxes than a less fortunate citizen? We should all pay the same percentage regardless of our income. (If we must have an income tax at all.) It was not what our founding fathers envisioned.

Don't get me wrong... I'm far from rich... but I have done my best to save 10% of every dollar I ever made. If ya never set goals... ya never meet them. Unfortunately, due to the market plunges artificially caused by our illustrious government, most of my savings in my 401k took a quick turn south.

Sure, the loopholes should be eliminated. The IRS should be decimated and a cleaner plan would be to tax at the cash register when a purchase is made. (Eliminate the stinkin' income tax.) Wouldn't this encourage saving on a broad front?

What we have here in my humble opinion... is Taxation without Representation! Does that sound familiar? Where's my flintlock?

Sorry for the rant... but some things need to be said.

Dave

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Would you be willing to remove the cap on the Payroll tax? The very poorest of the poor still pay that even if they don't earn enough to pay income tax. Yet the very rich all the way up to the filthy rich stop paying it after $106,000. I call the 15% payroll tax (7.5% employee and 7.5% employer) a tax on the poor because most of the money the rich make isn't taxed. Maybe that correction alone would keep SS solvent. I don't know for sure because I haven't done then numbers. And you are exactly right about the bad deal we have with IRA's and 401 k's. When you withdraw the money you will pay taxes big time yet the very government that is responsible for the devaluation of the fund will not recalculate for your losses.

If you want a tip for investment you might try this, which being in Glen Rose, you probably already know. I live in Tarrant county (and work at TCU by the way), right on top of the Barnette shale. I make about $600 a month royalties on my one acre homestead. The natural gas under us is estimated to be plentiful enough to last from 40 to 80 years. Now they discover oil below the Barnette Shale. That is why all the speculators are offering to buy your mineral rights recently. If you have them, don't sell them. If you can buy a foreclosure with the mineral rights buy it. And you could probably not go wrong buying stock in Chesapeake, Caruso or even Exxon, whose profits were obscene recently.


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Originally Posted by Samuel Harris
Would you be willing to remove the cap on the Payroll tax? The very poorest of the poor still pay that even if they don't earn enough to pay income tax. Yet the very rich all the way up to the filthy rich stop paying it after $106,000. I call the 15% payroll tax (7.5% employee and 7.5% employer) a tax on the poor because most of the money the rich make isn't taxed. Maybe that correction alone would keep SS solvent. I don't know for sure because I haven't done then numbers. And you are exactly right about the bad deal we have with IRA's and 401 k's. When you withdraw the money you will pay taxes big time yet the very government that is responsible for the devaluation of the fund will not recalculate for your losses.

If you want a tip for investment you might try this, which being in Glen Rose, you probably already know. I live in Tarrant county (and work at TCU by the way), right on top of the Barnette shale. I make about $600 a month royalties on my one acre homestead. The natural gas under us is estimated to be plentiful enough to last from 40 to 80 years. Now they discover oil below the Barnette Shale. That is why all the speculators are offering to buy your mineral rights recently. If you have them, don't sell them. If you can buy a foreclosure with the mineral rights buy it. And you could probably not go wrong buying stock in Chesapeake, Caruso or even Exxon, whose profits were obscene recently.

I don't know much about investment and stuff but I really don't believe the SS trust fund is broke. or ever will be. IF the fed treated the trust fund they way it was set up. By law the trust money must be invested. It usually earned about 4%.
Many people who pay into the fund die before they ever collect anything. I know my Brother had paid in a couple hundred thousand and he never collected anything. He died.

if a person took that $31,800 ($106,000 X 2 X 15%) the "rich" pay in and invested it at 4% they would earn a hell of a lot more than Social Security will ever pay them when they retire.

I think a better idea would be if you are Rich you are not allowed to pay into Social Security. That way no one can complain when you collect your own money.

Just curious Sam. Do you home owners share that $600.00 a month with the less fortunate people who don't own real estate? smile
Or do they get paid as well?


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Sam:

The local gas and oil barons must be keeping your "revelation" a secret over here in Somervell County... LOL! Glad to hear there is a slim chance that my little two acres over near Chalk Mountain (western slope near Erath County) might actually have some oil beneath the gas pocket of the Barnette Shale.

So far, nobody's sharing or paying diddly to me. Those dirty rats are probably drilling sideways and robbing me of all that income. I could use $1200 per month. (My logic is that if 1 acre = $600 then 2 acres should net $1200... LOL!)

Let's see... golf dues for one year, new tile floor for the mansion, new diamond ring for Ellie and a Tyros 4 keyboard.
Golly, it's wonderful pretending to be rich... you've made my day for at least a minute or two.

Back to the subject we've hijacked from Tom Shea... LOL! Yes, I'd be willing to do away with payroll taxes all-together. Let's just have one National Sales Tax and force the feds to automatically deduct each state's share before they can get their hands on the money in Washington... or should I say la la land... LOL!

Thanks again for the "heads-up" on my little oil patch!

Best,

Dave

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Originally Posted by Bill Robinson

Just curious Sam. Do you home owners share that $600.00 a month with the less fortunate people who don't own real estate? smile
Or do they get paid as well?


Bill,
If you don't own property, and only rent you get nothing.

In Tarrant County Texas where the Barnette shale is the deepest, almost all homeowners own their mineral rights. When we were sent letters from several oil and gas companies offering us 23% of all the revenue generated by pumping gas from under our property, I couldn't believe that we even had the mineral rights. As it turn out, unless your deed specifically says you don't own the rights, and names the party that does, you own them. We have one acre and we are in a "pool" of three hundred other home owners. Some are very lucky. Our next door neighbors moved into a house they got for a steal (135K) built on 3 1/2 acres. They make more than their mortgage payments. Previously dirt poor farmers on 100 acres are now millionaires. The local airport and all the schools had a huge windfall. There is a lot of money floating around here.

Every couple of weeks we get offers to buy or rights. The highest one was about $40,000 but we get letters from gullibility crawlers who offer us as low as $2500. Because so many people own their mineral rights, it has turned out to be a nice distribution of wealth.

All I can say about your 2 acres Dave, or anyone anywhere who owns property, is hold on to your mineral rights if you have them, because you never know what they will find. 10 years ago it was not possible to recover the gas. Now because of fracturing the rock with high pressure water and drilling "sideways", billions of cubic feet are harvested. My only regret is that when we moved here in 2000, we didn't buy that 10 acres we considered before we bought this place.




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When I lived in Tulsa, I worked for a guy in Catoosa. His company sat on about 5 acres. He had a fleet of delivery trucks and a few cars. On this property, he had a crude oil pump and a tank. He also had a natural gas pump. All of his vehicles were converted to natural gas. The pump and filters were pretty expensive. But he could fill his vehicles up out of the ground, and he had to pay taxes on what he used, but it was still free gas. He said that he was paid about $3000 per year for the crude that his property produced. After the equipment and taxes are paid for, it's like growing your own gas.

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I know that the state I live in has the most progams and legilatures of any state. Michelle Bauchman is somehow screaming and kicking out of it.
Programs definitely can be a good thing. I may be a bit biased in that growing up in my childhood as part of Johnson's dream society.
Over 40 percent of American's rely on the goverment for some kind of assistance.
It shouldn't be a matter of big business vs. goverment programs as much as does the money really go to support the need for survival. I work in an assisted living unit for the elderly. It gulls me when they get cut off of something as violent criminals can walk in and get all the assistance there is.

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