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Brian:

Since you brought it up... are there plans to have another JPF Album Judging event? I know you have a great deal on your plate now but it's been awhile and I believe it would "advance the cause" of JPF a great deal. I would still prefer to see it limited to two or three songs per album (selected by the artist) for the judges to review. That would really speed up the process.

That last contest convinced me that being an A&R person would not work for me... LOL! Sorry to "hi-jack" your thread but this has been mentioned to me a few times recently.

Before I forget my manners:

Holly:

Welcome to JPF. May you find the material and support here to help you achieve your goals in the music world.

I hope everyone is having a great weekend. Looks like "spring has sprung" down here in Texas.

Dave

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When I post a song I do it so I can get feedback. Sometimes I include in my intro to the post "Be brutal Keep it honest" even if I forget to include that disclaimer I always mean it. I have had comments and suggestions ranging from good job to its not working. I resonpd to all of them even the ones I dont understand or dont agree with, thanking the person that commented. I do my best to be hard to offend and easy to entertain.

I dont have a lot of confidence in my songwriting at this point so I dont comment as much as others, but its only because Im so new to songwriting that I dont know the proper language to suggest structure change, so most of my comments are more praise then crit.

Maybe two MP3 sections would guard the sensitive ego, one section for brutal thruth and one for the pat on the back seekers, myself I wouldnt change it, but if it will cause more involvement I say do whatever works.

Cheers
Paul


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so now that I have read through this thread I have a good idea of what is going on.

if we were to use a "list" from any of the many song writing song books out there or sites that offer the same then a critique could be more then the "pat on the back."

but even those are "opinions" of what makes a good or great song.

granted there are some songs that really need work and I for one relish the critiques/suggestions I have received but IMO the bottom line is this.

if you post a lyric here and you want the "too the point review" then ask fo it and take it for what it is worth. "An opinion."

KOS is an expression used often and that is what is up to you.

from what I have seen/read and learned from those in the know here is that for the most part no one really has a chance making it as a song writer. we are here as a community. if something actually comes out of this "passion" of ours then great but the reality, again with those in the know, is we are barking up the wrong tree.

talent is rampant here IMO but what I would like to see is those in the know taking the time and taking a lyric now and then and going to town with it.

that would be a learning experience we could all learn from.

douglas





"Is this a practice? They are all practices." John Denver

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"Since you brought it up... are there plans to have another JPF Album Judging event? I know you have a great deal on your plate now but it's been awhile and I believe it would "advance the cause" of JPF a great deal. I would still prefer to see it limited to two or three songs per album (selected by the artist) for the judges to review. That would really speed up the process.

That last contest convinced me that being an A&R person would not work for me... LOL! Sorry to "hi-jack" your thread but this has been mentioned to me a few times recently."

To Respond:

The music awards are both the greatest and hardest thing we do. It costs a LOT of money (usually 100% of sponsor money, plus a lot of money out of our family income, since I take zero dollars in pay from JPF and have never made a dime from any of it) and it takes a LOT of volunteer input to judge. Last time around, I spent 17 months working with a company to create, from scratch, a perfect judging interface. Sadly, we have no access to that software and so we need to figure out a way to judge more music than anyone ever has in world history again.

Now, let's say we find a way to move forward (something I think about A LOT every single day) we have learned a great deal about how to judge music as well as the best way to find great music like needles in a haystack (more like drops of orange juice in a sea of salt water). Artists and Songwriters are the worst judges of their own music. If we leave it to them to choose the songs they want considered, 50% of the time, people who eventually get nominated would NOT have chosen those songs as their top 3. And probably 75-80% of the time they would have not chosen the eventual nominated song as their best song. But listeners, (a mix of peers, fans and industry) are able to find the best of their work `100% of the time (since it they who eventually choose 100% of the nominees). So it's not that we refuse the artist's choices, we include ALL their work and often the results are a big surprise to many. In many cases it does reinforce what some artists thought, because there are some songs which are no brainers to everyone and there are some artists who actually do know what their best songs are. I am not willing to do all this work and miss 50% of the best songs. Our mission is to find the best stuff, period.

I thought the experience of judging masses amounts of music (and keep in mind by the time many of you got involved past the first round, the bottom 50% was already gone) would offer a reality check about just how much great (and not so great) music is being created year after year and for the most part, being heard by almost no one. It enforced the idea of pleasing yourself and making music to help your own life through expression, then if the talent is evident, learn where the bar is truly set and see if you can lift your output to that level. If you can't rise above the masses, then it may just not be in the cards for you. But making music is about the quality of your life first and making music is essential to most and something you can't stop doing and there's no reason to stop regardless of your potential. But do it on your own terms because otherwise you've wasted the chance to express the real you in music.

For those that rise to the top, it simply means you truly have the goods to appeal to a wide mix of listeners from a wide mix of listeners and it should give you the confidence that your art is up to the grade it needs to be at. Then you can focus on all the other parts of the "business" starting with understanding and finding who your real niche audience is. Our awards bring positive attention to music that otherwise might be overlooked by the commercial music scene, but which deserves a nod and the encouragement to take it up a notch. And to those who hear it, it will open their eyes and ears to great music the "industrial complex" doesn't really want you to hear.

Thanks for the encouragement to continue our tradition! My health forced me to skip the 2010-2011 awards cycle. I hope we can restart for the 2012-2013 cycle.

Brian


Brian Austin Whitney
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"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney

"It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney

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I am a member of the Muses Muse and I go there because it is where I was born two years ago and where I was taught and when I went out into the world, I came here.

I learned more and met more folks, but what dream came true here was collaborations. The ability to work WITH people and that is made possible by growing trusting friendships on JPF.

Every person here is different. Different personalities, life experiences, ages and talents. Each person acts and comments that best suits who they are and here they are free to do that.

I think it is allowing folks to be who they are, comment as is comfortable to them and actiing the way it suits them best that not only keeps them here, but builds the community.

If there is someone who wants something else than what is offered, I am sure a trial run of another thread might show whether it is needed or not, but the more complicated things become, the more difficult it makes it on overly busy people like myself.

I have heard of other threads/opportunities on this site, but I just don't have the time to even learn of it, not to disrespect Brian or his efforts in any way.

Also, I can't imagine that Facebook is in any way a good substitute for JPF...My friends and family don't listen to my songs there, I find it more productive and fun to be here.

I see us as artists (most don't think the way I do) We are just so lucky to experience one another in such a way, we almost know each other, having never met and we inspire each other to create more.

I lost a freind on the Muses Muse, someone I never met, but who was the most caring commenter who inspired others and shared his wonderful talent. My world was a better place because he was in it, because he was himself and did his own thing, said what he wanted to say and just having the opportunity to know him, my world is better. I am sure we all can apply that to each other here, this is where we can be ourselves and get that fantastic lryic review from Donna and Dottie, we KNOW them, they are amazing wonderful, talented women, I have never MET them, but on JPF, I KNOW them, from many comments and I have learned from them because I listen and I WANT to learn.

It is all up to the individual, but I love the freedom that JPF offers in its current state and the ability to be a part of a diverse and friendly (most of the time..LOL!) community.

Tammy


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https://soundcloud.com/tamsnumber4
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1038504

Words are, in my not-so-humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic. Capable of both inflicting injury, and remedying it...
Professor Albus Dumbledore




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Brian - You've identified one of JPF's problems as losing market share to facebook. There's a lot of ways that general websites probably can't compete. But with a little help (maybe even somefolks here?) you might develop a JPF smartphone app. IMO you might also consider exploring ways that folks can personalize their presence here. Adding blogs or expanding what can get done inside the member profile might help.

Just random thoughts.

Peace,

Ian


Soundclick http://www.soundclick.com/ianferrin
Soundclick2 http://www.soundclick.com/ianferrininstrumentals

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Thanks for your explanation, Brian:

You provided tons of "food for thought." You may be right about singers, songwriters and musicians not recognizing their own best works... but, it's alot like submitting songs to publishers, producers and labels... you send your best three and you take your chances. I'm only thinking about reducing the mountain of material your judges must wade through. After awhile, the listening judge must employ the much touted A&R rule... "If it doesn't grab you in the first twenty seconds, it's toast."

Each album contains an average number of ten songs. (Some even more!) If you reduced it to three songs... the pile of songs would be reduced by 70%. That would allow judges to listen more carefully to determine some of those critical elements which make a song memorable. (One that "moves you.")

I feel badly that you/we no longer have access to the software developed for this purpose. I can understand your reluctance to open that "door" again. No matter what, it was a good experience for me... and I took away more positives than negatives after having done my bit (one out of many) for that gargantuan task.

We owe you a great deal, Brian. I wish I'd "hit the bigtime" with a song or two... so I could endow JPF with permanent income.

Thanks for all you do for us.

Dave

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Hmmm. Very interesting thread.

It sounds a lot like Taxi with anonymous critiques. Not sure that's what is needed here.

I think the idea of a scoring template is a good one. NSAI workshops give out what to look for when critiquing. It could be very helpful.

Everyone is capable of some sort of critiquing. Some JPF'ers just have better ears then others....:)

Good Luck.

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