At this one, it's more like a social scene gathering. Yak, yak, yak. I don't know if there is anything that can be done about that. Maybe the owners could write up a flyer or a sign or something.

And this has happened about five times now... this certain woman, daughter of one of the writers, she brings this toddler every time. Last night did me in. The show was the toddler. Heck, what two year old ISN'T cute? Yeah, but an open mic is no place to have a toddler walking right up to the performer and waving and dancing and just being a toddler.

I was lucky, she only ruined one song for me but it was during a song that was being recorded and the kid squealed with delight at some bug or something. Blew that demo.

The people after me really suffered. The kid was really putting on a show.

If it was my place, it would be no small children allowed. Seems reasonable to me. I love kids, but heck, this ain't the place. It's a great venue, I'd like to see it improved but I don't own it.

Now that I think about it... some friends or family will come to hear their friend or kid or niece or whatever... but they yak while others are playing. I don't know a solution.

Since there's only one open mike where I live, I keep coming back--and after the first time, people knew who I was and wanted to hear what I'd written this time--so I kinda had rapt attention. Since I've just moved, I'm going to have to try this in a new place, and I'll get to see if this was a one-time fluke or a trend I can count on.

Lots of luck.

Joe

www.soundclick.com/bands/7/joewrabekmusic.htm

Bars are not a place for kids period. Coffee houses are different. I think people who have kids go there to hear new music and end up taking their kids with because there is no place they can go but a place like that. This has happened at our shows. We just make it part of the show. We just start dancing with them and eventually they head back out. It's tougher of course if your doing a single.

Parents do need to be respectful of performers and be ready to reel in the little ones. The parents of this little one obviously weren't paying attention to that. You can't compete with a two year old no matter who you are. The only choice you're left with sometimes is, to join them. Or, be the "Oger".

As far as the crowd goes. I am very particular as to where I or my band play. If a venue wasn't conducive to our show, we simply did not book there again or at all. Some musicians are ok about being "Musak" to a big get together. I'm not. Nothing ticks me off more than a bar with T.V.s on while your playing.

It sounds to me as though you know enough is enough. Skip that venue for awhile. I know you said it's a great venue but hey, it's like that song; "She aint pretty, she just looks that way". More pain than it's worth.

One last thing. A question. Is the lighting brite, or dark? If it's bright. See if you can drop the lighting down quite a bite. When you go into a theatre, you are focused on the show because it's dark. I find the best shows happen when it's a lowly lit venue.

Good luck.

Kris Karr

If you're really trying to get folks to pay attention at an open mic, do something completely different from the other acts. If everyone before you has gotten up with an acoustic guitar and sang solo, bring up a backing choir and a kazoo or a ukelele.

Last week I saw an artist come up and play a backing track on a cheap hand held tape player while doing a wonderful vocal and folks loved it. Another got folks attention by introducing his song spelling out the title one letter at a time as if at a spelling bee, including stopping midway and asking the MC for country of origin and definition.

And if you have kids at a show - don't fight it. You won't win anyone over by being an ogre. Best thing is to play something that the kid will pay attention to - and then everyone paying attention to the kid hears the music as well. Then thank the kid for their help on that tune and use a joke to embarass mom and pop to get his butt away from the stage. If its a two year old a dirty diaper reference might do the trick.

And when you find a place where folks really listen - go back there!

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Marty listen here

Reread your initial post and noticed the kid belongs to one of the other performers. In this case, if other folks are also annoyed and that other performer isn't a huge draw or the Owner's best friend, it should be easy to get some help from the Owner on this one.

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Marty listen here

If you want people to notice you, you can't be as good as everyone else. You have to be super exceptional. People want to be entertained, and they need something that stands out from the rest to get their attention. Otherwise, you are just background ambience.

quote:

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Originally posted by Andy K:
I also noticed that most audiences at open mics aren't very attentive. But I also noticed that when a very good performer or some one with exceptionally good songs gets up there, almost everyone shuts up and pays attention. I've seen this happen repeatedly. This indicates the problem is not with the audience, but with the performers. If people aren't paying attention to your performance, maybe you should accept reality that your songs and/or performances (and mine, for that matter) leave something to be desired.

If you want people to notice you, you can't be as good as everyone else. You have to be super exceptional. People want to be entertained, and they need something that stands out from the rest to get their attention. Otherwise, you are just background ambience.

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Yes, it would!

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Chris

I've been at it for a while now musically and I wouldn't be here today if not for the support at the open mics I started out at.

As for a little kid ruining a performance, I suggest building it into your act. Don't try and ignore someone interfering, but rather embrace them in some way. If a little kid is winning over the crowd, align yourself with the little kid. Include them in your banter. Play to the little kid to evoke more reaction from him/her. Most of the pro live artists that I respect the most which I've met over the year would have taken that same situation and milked it for laughs, applause and won the audience over in a big way. Don't view it as a disruption, but rather a temporary gimmick that you can use to your advantage. The same goes for drunk people dancing obnoxiously to your music. An example? I was at a giant music festival near Pittsburgh a few years ago and Moby was performing. Some drunk guy from the outdoor stadium crowd got past security and made it all the way up to the stage and started dancing to Moby's performance. The police quickly moved in to subdue the guy and hauled him off the stage quite forcefully. Moby, seizing the moment to win the crowd, stopped playing and demanded that the drunk fan be allowed BACK into the stadium and on to the stage to dance. He said the security was supposed to be there to protect him and he didn't want them rough handling the guy and wanted him to feel free to dance. In stunned disbelieve everyone paused to see if he was serious and he was. So they escorted the drunk guy back into the stadium and back up on the stage and the crowd erupted in one of the loudest ovations I've heard in recent years at a major show. The drunk guy continued to dance around like an idiot but Moby had totally won the battle with everyone and looked like a hero.

I've seen smart artists take the nastiest heckler and turn the table to get not only the heckler but the entire audience on their side. It doesn't always work, but learning to positively handle these types of unexpected events is what makes a professional a professional. I suggest using open mics to help learn by experiment how to best handle these situations and turn them into your allies. I am sure there are a lot of folks who could think of ways to positively deal with a toddler and turn it all into a funny and positive episode which might get folks to not only listen to you more closely but like you enough to want to see you again because they remember you're the guy who had all that fun with the little toddler last week.

Open mics are a great way to get your music out there. Recently, I was attending an open mic, and was appalled at the rudeness of some of the performers in the audience...some of them were handing out flyers while another artist was performing...another one was walking around, trying to get people to sign up on her mailing list...a third one was talking loudly to the owner about the sound system-
as if there was no music on stage...EEK!

When you are the performer, you really notice the talking when you are on stage, and it is insulting, as well as distracting.

I think being a good audience that doesn't have to talk through everything is..well...a lost art.

Yes and No. While it would be great if we could expect the entire audience to sit silently and really listen - like you had to at those classical music recitals in school - I don't expect it to happen in a bar or coffee house. A lot of folks would avoid a venue completely and find some place without music to sit, have a drink and talk if socializing were "forbidden". If the room is empty then it's plenty quiet but that doesn't help get your music heard or get practice in front of an audience.

There are plenty of times that I've seen an otherwise noisy room go silent when a performer does something that is so special that everyone in the room turns their focus on the performance - its something worth trying to acheive. Its a magical feeling when you're playing and at a rest in a soft passage you realize you could hear a pin drop in a room full of people. Almost better than the applause at the end.

For newbies, open mics are a good place to develop a thick skin. You have to remember that if they haven't actually booed you off the stage or thrown things at you, you're doing OK.

I do think inattentive behaviour from other artists at an open mic is far less acceptable than socializing on the part of the general public. The performers ought to be held to a higher standard. Maintaining that standard is somewhat the responsibility of the host. If someone can't show respect for the other performers, they don't deserve to be given a spot on stage. The host can either not allow them to appear, or give them a shorter or less desirable time slot.

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Marty listen here

Very well stated

I'm sure it was one of my finer moments! LOL

First - a sincere positive introduction by the host; i.e. "next up is one of my favorite ..." from a host that doesn't say this for every performer.

Second - plug in and play, no on stage tuning and "check, check" into the mic. And now that I've got a higher quality pickup in a good guitar, it makes a huge difference in controlling the quality of the sound. When the audience can clearly hear what your playing, subtleties matter and they'll listen more intently.

Third - a song that is different. Just One More" is not just a basic strum the chords intro.

Fourth - something they can identify with - late night in a bar its a heartbreak drinking song

After the first song was very well received and lots of applause, keeping the room was relatively easy. Reintroduce yourself, tell them you wrote the song they just heard, then give a few details behind writing the next song. "Ice" being a very appropriate song for a snow/sleet New England night.

Next - tell them about the progress on your latest recording and play the title track "Reflections on a Bottle".

Finally - thank everyone for paying attention, reintroduce yourself, thank the host, and make sure the sound is off before pulling the plug on the guitar. Grab a beer and go talk to people - they all want to pad your ego and tell you how great you were while the next guy is farting around with tuning and mic positions ....

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Marty listen here

Is there a setting on the digital delay that will allow me to think before I speak?

Thanks for the fine example of a 'set' in your last post. That is helpful.

quote:

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Originally posted by Emily Sanders:
Thanks for the clarification, Marty!

Very well stated

Emily

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I read a blog entry from a friend that is related to this topic. An excerpt:

"And yet one Saturday night in December 2004, I became conscious of a new awareness. All of a sudden, while playing the fourth song in the set, I sensed people in the back of the room were beginning to tune our band out. We may have had these peoples’ attention for the first few songs but now it was time for them to talk to the other folks at their table, see to ordering more drinks, check their cell phones, etc. Somehow, a heretofore undetected level of consciousness made this apparent to me, whereupon I positioned myself onstage directly behind our lead singer for no other reason than it was an odd thing to do."

In the blog entry Tony talks about how becoming a teacher has made him more aware of the audience. I've heard from folks who were there that night that the little schtick he did standing behind his bandmate and then jumping out when it was time to do solos and harmonies was very effective in recapturing the room. You can find the whole entry at School for the Dead's Living Rockumentary Scroll down to the Dec. 24th entry by "ant wes".

Sometimes we're so absorbed in performing a song well that we focus only on ourselves and the song and forget about making a connection with the audience.

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Marty my new home

It may be cold out but you heart doesn't need to be. Make somebody smile today.

[This message has been edited by Marty Helly (edited 12-29-2004).]

Henning here from the band School for the Dead, which Marty just mentioned.

I found this thread by tracking my website stats. Thanks for the plug, Marty. The direct link to Tony's great piece about how teaching has helped him develop his performance skills is here.

I have many, many thoughts on open mics and I hope to get a chance to write more here soon.

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Henning Ohlenbusch (edited 12-29-2004).]

I read the article on teaching. Now there's an education in handling a tough audience. I teach the Beginning 2 Music class in our homeschool co op (14 students), that has been interesting...
Good points in this thread.

T. O. S

TIME ON STAGE

When all is said and done and a musician has his or her CD’s, press packs, good photo’s, good plain on advertisements, and is ready to hit the road. The one of the most important of all of it is how you deliver your music on stage. One can have all the pops and whistles but at the end of the day its how you come across with your music to the audience. And you have give or take about 30 seconds. That’s right, right off the bat you have to deliver.
This is a lession I have learned time and time again from some damn good acts and have sat back and watched what they do. From Bruce Springsteen to John Hammond to Pete Seeger, they all come out of the shoot and do not give the audience a second.
With Pete, he use to ask me sometime if I could drive him to a gig, so he could get some rest. Even if I was driving 13 hours there was no way I would say no. If it was 5,000 people or 50 right away Pete would make contact. Now you may be wondering out there how Pete gets people to sing in a language that they don’t speak? The one thing I always seem to notice he does not give the audience a break. This goes back to my 30 seconds. And the audience gets it and jumps right on in. Pete does not let go until he leaves the stage
. With Bruce, at a Clearwater festival we were lucky to have him come and play a few tunes. I was doing my set and noticed some guy setting up about 20 guitars on the stage. I finished doing my set and was back stage with Bruce as he was getting ready. Now keep in mind this is not a real big festival but that did not matter to Bruce. He acted like this was his first gig and you can tell he not only wanted to do his best, he wanted to give his 100% and more. And boy, did he deliver! This was the first time he sang “My city in ruin”. The point is Bruce did not wait for the 30 seconds.
Now with John Hammond, I opened up for him once and have seen him before perform. And John also goes right for it and does not hold back to warm up the audience. He also comes right out of the shoot and gives the audience one help of a ride, right from the get-go.
So you may be saying to yourself,” well these are all famous people and that is why they the audience is reacting”. There is a sense of truth in that but that does not last long. And after that the act has to give the goods to the audience.
“So, how am I an unknown act to learn this Bill?” Well there is only one way and that is play as much as you can out there and I mean a lot. In your area there is an open mike. http://www.openmikes.org/
Well, go to them as much as you can. Now you may be thinking, “Hell, Bill I have been to a few of theses and it’s a bunch of drunks. I can’t hear what I am doing”. Well I hear you on that but always do your 100% no matter what because you never know who is listening. I have been to Italy on tour 2 times and have had two money people wanting to help me with my music because of open mikes. So like I have said you never know, so always be ready to give it your best. Another words, be not complacence! No matter now big a fish you are in your pond.
Now as with the audience you may be thinking how do I keep their attention? Well one way is what I call, “working the room” Another words make sure to make eye contact with each and every person. And I mean every person, from left to right and back again. Keep in mind at the end of the day you are really singing to that one person. So make eye contact and sing to them. Make sure you are clear in what you are saying and believe me you will see their eyes open up.
Now all this being said there are no set rules in this but in a way we are all learning a trade. And the best way to learn a trade is get your hands dirty.

quote:

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Originally posted by DukeWill:
How do you do this? There is a venue that I go to that is just an outstanding place to play. Except the audience is not listening as well as you'd like. I've only played at one other open mic in another city. But at that one, people truly listened. Not just for me... for any writer... you should just be courteous and listen to their song.

At this one, it's more like a social scene gathering. Yak, yak, yak. I don't know if there is anything that can be done about that. Maybe the owners could write up a flyer or a sign or something.

And this has happened about five times now... this certain woman, daughter of one of the writers, she brings this toddler every time. Last night did me in. The show was the toddler. Heck, what two year old ISN'T cute? Yeah, but an open mic is no place to have a toddler walking right up to the performer and waving and dancing and just being a toddler.

I was lucky, she only ruined one song for me but it was during a song that was being recorded and the kid squealed with delight at some bug or something. Blew that demo.

The people after me really suffered. The kid was really putting on a show.

If it was my place, it would be no small children allowed. Seems reasonable to me. I love kids, but heck, this ain't the place. It's a great venue, I'd like to see it improved but I don't own it.

Now that I think about it... some friends or family will come to hear their friend or kid or niece or whatever... but they yak while others are playing. I don't know a solution.

I've gone to "in the round" type things where people paid rapt attention to all of the singers. That's really nice.

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There is always a battle to fight in this art of war..keep on keepn on....I never worry about how others act

quote:

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Originally posted by DukeWill:
And this has happened about five times now... this certain woman, daughter of one of the writers, she brings this toddler every time. Last night did me in. The show was the toddler. Heck, what two year old ISN'T cute?

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Had it just happened once, I wouldn't recommend this, but since this is an ongoing thing, it might be worth the investment.

Have you considered writing a song voicing your feelings about this? Seems like the PERFECT opportunity to win over an audience.

Focus on the positive, fun frustrations of the situation. Or specifically cite an event that audience members will have recalled this kid doing in the audience. Maybe cite the ruined demo recording, or the interesting bug the kid found, or a dozen other things.

Maybe a title of "You're So Cute Nobody's Noticed Me."

The more humor and good-natured joy the better. Make it one the parents will be unashamed of pointing to and saying "That's MY kid he's talking about." Make it one the audience will say, "Oh, geez, he's SO right."

Then perform it at the same venue--preferably after this toddler has opened his show. If you can sing to him, even better.

If you make this a "hang my head and cry" with a bit of self-deprecating humor and without actually complaining (<grin> good luck with that part!) you have a chance at making a couple of hundred new friends.

I bet as soon as it was apparent what you were doing, people couldn't not listen if they tried. And mom just might take the hint. Maybe.

Are you familiar with Mary Chapin Carpenter's appearance on the 1990 CMA Awards? She was an all-but-unknown opening the ceremonies with her song, "You Don't Know Me...I'm The Opening Act." Brought the house down.

Good luck with this!

That sounds like a damn good recipe for lemonade.

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Marty my new home

quote:

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Originally posted by Marty Helly:
Ross - That sounds like a damn good recipe for lemonade.

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You make one great point and one that's off the mark completely.

The point isn't that other people should raise their kids right. The performer on stage can't control that. You can't make all parents raise their kids right so that if one brings a kid to your show, that won't happen. The point here is to learn how to deal with whatever a gig throws at you. React on your feet. Use experience and wisdom to deal with the unexpected and turn it into your favor at a gig.

Your great point is stopping someone who is leaving early and saying hi. More often than not it WILL stop them in their tracks and it might enlighten them a bit to what they were about to do without being negative or confrontational.

BTW, I once saw a songwriter at an open-mic, did three songs and didn't say anything to anyone before during or after his set. He finished his last song, got up and walked off stage and straight for the door. Everyone's thinking, this guy's a real jerk. Turns out he was outside vomiting, He said he was fine singing but was afraid to open his mouth and talk to the audience for fear he would vomit right there.

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Marty my new home

I try to prepare for mistakes, too. Friday, I was going to try out the latest new song on 'em, so I thanked 'em in advance for being a great audience -"just in case", and warned 'em this song had never been flubbed in front of a live audience before. When I did forget a line, I just stopped, smiled at 'em to remind 'em what I'd said, and we all had a good laugh over the private joke, and I finished the song, and they liked it. Not a problem. *Could* have been a problem if I hadn't have warned them, or if I had gotten flustered over my mistake.

For those that are just starting out doing the Open Mike thing, it's important, I think, to keep in mind that everybody started out at some point. Watch other people perform a lot; watch how the audience reacts; imitate what's good. And keep at it. Remember Winston Churchill's advice on how to win World War II: "Never, never, never, never, NEVER give up."

Good Stuff,
Mike

The point of open mike shows for most people is to learn to perform. If you're confident and self assured, the people who are inclined to listen anyway will listen to you. Don't spend energy worrying about things you can't control. If you get flummoxed by a kid crying, THAT'S what they're listening to, not your performance.

A couple of thoughts:
Don't sweat the small stuff.
It's all small stuff.

Something else to think about;
Though you may have put your heart and soul into a song, it's a great song, has lots of feeling and many people are affected by it, some won't be. You can't let that bother you, at least outwardly.
Smile, BS the crowd and keep the ones listening in the palm of your hand.

Another observation about eye contact. I do try to make eye contact with the crowd but I won't go overboard to make that eye contact with those who may be much more interested in their conversations. That's all fine, it leaves me more time to concentrate on those whom I have within my hold. With fewer people to talk and sing to it seems to make things easier. Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic to have a whole room listening to every word of every song as well as the BS between, it just doesn't happen all that often and it's not worth getting steamed up about.

Open mics or showcases with just the average joe out there are fairly easy for me. The ones that always have me shivering and shaking are the ones with fellow performers as the major part of the audience. THAT scares the hell out of me.

If you're playing cover songs in a bar environment, you'll probably get attention easier than if you play originals - unless your originals are very strong, unique, feature killer instrumental parts and harmonies, and have a familiar ring to the audience. Outrageousness works also - to a point - whether in your appearance, your lyrics or what you say between songs. But, it all boils down to the quality and consistency of your music and your performance.

The wisdom of our fearless leader, Brian, shows in all his posts and particularly in this one. Thinking on your feet - every time you're on stage - is the way to assure that more people will listen the next time you're behind the mic.

Some advice - nurture a relationship with the hosts and the sound guy. They really want you to sound good so you'll please the audience and, ultimately, the proprietor - the person who keeps the lights on and the beer flowing. Be consistently courteous to patrons and performers, and always - ALWAYS - put out your best energy.

I see Bill Hudson perform at open mics a lot. Some folks like his stuff, and some folks don't, but his wizened stage ways always capture the audience. He manages to network between sets, but you'll most often find him listening to whoever is performing, and in that, there is a lesson. It's called the Golden Rule.

I'll add two thoughts. Stage presence has components you can develop. Pay attention to anything you're doing that takes your energy away from the audience - perhaps to focus on a particularly tricky guitar part, perhaps because the material you're doing is so new your energy is going into getting the song right rather than going out to the listeners. In most listening situations, the audience really does want to like you. If you're struggling, they'll have a hard time getting past your struggle and they may not get your music.

And a quick word about bars. I've played in a lot of bars and I've run a live music series in a bar. A few wonderful bars are very song-oriented. Most other bars, including some great music venues, are full of people who came to drink, be entertained and have a good time. With this in mind if your music is acoustic, introspective, quiet, mid-to-slow tempo, full of subtle imagery and lots of words without much repetition, you will have a hard time connecting with most people who are drinking. Their attention spans are not favorably aligned with what you're doing. Save yourself some heartache and go find some good listening rooms to play in.

[I remember the light bulb going off one night: to succeed at the club scene you have to play music drunk people can get! This of course pertains particularly to booked gigs, where your ability to draw an audience is what gets you the return gig, so being able to convert talkers and non-listeners to fans is essential...]

Great thread, everyone. I'm looking forward to going out and trying some of these ideas.

Kelly

At one place I "yelled" a countoff (ONE! TWO!) and blasted the opening line with playing the acoustic guitar loud. They all turned their heads my way and I sang TO them mostly.

John Daubert

So ya never know, do your best & have fun with it.

Rick