JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Kiev - Does anyone care?

I know our country is torn about wars we always seem to enter with no plan or desire to win... and I'm certainly not suggesting that we send troops or spies into the Ukraine. Its very sad to see the will of the majority of people over there wanting to align with the rest of Europe and not with the former Soviet Bloc.

Care to share any ideas as to what songwriters and artists in the "free world" can do to help the protestors in Kiev without interfering? It is a shame Mr. Putin cannot find a way to resolve this conflict and peacefully join the rest of the world in free, honest and open trade.

The U.S. Government needs to let the Russians know this is not the way to resolve this problem. I am not anti-Russian but I distrust their present government almost as much as I have begun to distrust our own corrupt government. (IRS, FBI, NSA, Supreme Court... and most of the other branches.) Whatever happened to democratic principles?

Sad!

Hey Dave,

I'm a song writer. A commentator. A reflection of what is. I'm above politics.

cheers, niteshift

Let them deal with it themselves. We've got enough problems here on this side of the pond as it is.

I know that sounds heartless, but being that I've seen first hand what war can do to people (myself included), I don't wish it on anyone, but interfering will only cause more problems than solutions.

The U.S. is already viewed as bullies by many in Europe. If we go in there policing them, they'll hate us more.

Yeah, let them clean up their own messes for a change. As for Mr. Putin. You think he isn't smart enough to figure out a way to resolve that conflict over there? The fact of the matter is, he is a very smart man. The problem is, he doesn't care about the same things we do. His M.O. serves him and his lackeys. If the conflict in the Ukraine leads to the overthrow of Putin, then at least something good might come out of it.

Hey Dave, I'm with Greg. We have too much on the plate, and in my opinion, a weak President to boot.

Putin has an image problem. Ever since President GW Bush (who had a habit of calling people by nicknames) started calling him "Pootie-Poot", he's been on a PR campaign to show the rest of the world that he is a "manly man" by releasing photo's of him shirtless and engaging in macho type activities. The phoniness shows as he neglects to do his real job. The American media eats it up. At least he's not a Saddam or a Stalin.

Dave, Kiev is but one spot where turmoil and trouble is afoot. Venezuela, Thailand, Greece, Egypt, Syria, the Sudan and much of the rest of Africa is torn by war and uprisings against despotic or corrupt governments and corporations. And that's not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan and places like North Korea. You can feel sorry for the people living in those places but there's not a darn thing the USA can do about it. As for your believing that the Russian government is more trustworthy than ours, we part company there.

Hi Gang:

So far, responses are about what I expected. I understand where all of you are coming from. It's still a shame that people are forced to risk everything to resist what used to be (may still be deep within the mind of Putin... ex KGB) the Soviet Union.

Dan: I'm not sure you read my original statement about the U.S. and Russian Governments. I served my country in Naval Aviation many years ago. The Soviets were our enemies then and could become enemies again if they continue their same path. Regardless, I still trust our creepy Government more than the Russians... but not much since Obama arrived on the scene.

I am more than aware of all the trouble spots in the world. You failed to mention Cuba and others... but I get your drift.

Thanks for all your replies. My prayers go out to all the Ukranian people struggling to maintain a semblance of freedom.

I do care. Many US citizens care for many societies, not just the Ukraine, that yearn for the same freedoms and privileges that many country's have. I think we need to diplomatically support and use our political influence to aid their cause--but as we've learned over the past 50 years, we cannot police this world or extend "force" or even our "will" unless our national security, or our strong ally's national security's are at real risk.

Part of the strategy of our "disguised" and undisguised enemies is trying to draw in USA involvement -- with the hope that we spread ourselves out "thin" all over this world to weaken our own economic and patriotic infrastructure. Unless we have an "appropriate leverage" over Russia, it is really more the responsibility for the European countries to politically leverage their Russian neighbor, not us--the Cold War is over, but it could start again if the other countries of the world choose not to exercise any clout whatsoever.

When the Cold War ended, R Reagan knew it was important to have reasonable "quasi-capitalistic" growth within Russia, and with a pledge that "we would help them achieve that." This needed to happen to give strength to private business enterprise and the common people--so that they could enjoy those fruits that come with that economic system in general; I'm not sure that it has happened to the extent needed or fast enough--and without that success, the Russian government will be more depended upon to maintain the Russian economy, giving them again too much power which always leads to wanting even more. Look at the history of Russia--deja vu. Ironically, maybe if the USA invested more in Russia after the "wall" came down, we may not have the current instability in E. Europe and a better ally in Russia. (I don't know this for sure, nor does anyone) I am only speculating from a historical perspective as well as seeing circumstances unfold. Let's hope that the Ukraine can align itself with Europe--they should be able to choose freely, but I'm not sure we can stop corruption without creating bigger problems which we do not need.

Let us hope that enough international political leverage can be surmounted to give the Ukraine their rightly and "just" independence that their people deserve.

steady-eddie.

Perhaps not so much in the Ukraine, but I look at a lot of internal problems in third world countries as growing pains much like the US and most European countries had at one time when we had our own civil wars, wars between the states, etc. There was little if any outside influence when the US went through that. Countries like Iraq and Afghanistan have to sort themselves out. Perhaps the Ukraine has to do it to because it is not that long since the USSR was dissolved. I don't think the Ukraine is a threat to the US so we should probably limit our involvement to encouraging them to sort it out and line up with Europe.

Sometimes our system of government is not right for another country. Democracy sounds good but if the average person in some godforsaken African state only has a first grade education, should he be voting and determining the direction of the country.....I think not.

Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom.Not much man can do to stop it.

The media is constantly trying to stir up trouble between the U.S. and Russia. They need stories.

Chicken Kiev is good. I just can't pound it right so that the butter doesn't ooze out while it's cooking.

Well, Ben, someone had to say it:-)

But I would be curious to hear what our Alek says about it.

I have a on-line friend in Egypt, and his "take" on the troubles there are much more interesting than what I hear on the news.

Midnite

Midnite

Thanks, Bob, Ben and fellow thread responders:

Yeah, I've wondered about Alek... and it's difficult to think of the problems he and his countrymen are facing. Theoretically, the Ukranian Situation has no connection to the Arab Spring but we can hope that eventually, something good will come from all of this conflict. (Hopefully, without our direct involvement.)

Speaking of Spring... we've enjoyed some unusually warm weather here in Texas lately (that will change next week) but we sure need rain. Most of our reservoirs have lost anywhere from six to ten feet and I'm guessing our water-table acquifers are suffering similarly. If any of you have influence with Mother Nature, please explain our problem.

Regards,

Dave

The Ukraine is basically two countries split East and West. This conflict is really about whether the banks in Frankfurt or the government in Moscow will control the Ukraine. The ultimate losers will be the Ukrainian people no matter how it turns out.

Most likely the country will be divided and the East will become a Russian satellite and the West will end up in the same position as Greece.

Hi Sue:

Good points. With today's news (impeachment of the Ukraine's Trouble Making President... or whatever they call him) it looks like what you have stated may be about to happen. I would rather see them divide into two countries than drag those who want freedom back into the Russian sphere of influence.

One impeachment down... and one to go for the Liar of the Year!

Have a great weekend, everyone.

I wonder what price freedom. The EU is a fragile grouping that benefits Germany banking. That's why I said Frankfurt. The reason I say fragile is that the Netherlands, one of the original members of the World bank is in better financial state than Germany and would no doubt leave the EU before their country had to suffer and that would collapse the EU.

I'm not sure Western Ukraine would have much freedom once the German banks start making their demands in a few years. Just ask Greece, Spain, Ireland. They have had to surrender some of their sovereignty to please the banks.

Hi Dave,

Here's my songwriting contribution!

Obama sat in his sitting room
He wore his peacekeeper's hat
He took upon himself the very big task
Of mediating the Ukrainian spat

A desperate rebel came to visit
His dusty cap in his hand
The rebel bowing low, said you are the man
The one with the power to save our fine land

Obama cast his most thoughtful look
He said sir you know I've got drones
When you pick up the phone from the battle zone
I promise to treat you as I would my own

CHORUS
The rebel went to his people
He rang the bells from the steeple
Countrymen, he cried, please don't be afraid
Obama has promised the rebels will be saved

Obama sat in his sitting room
He wore his peacekeeper's hat
He took upon himself the very big task
Of mediating the Ukrainian spat

The Ukraine leader puffed up with pride
Said right to Obama's eyes
I heard you met with the other side
It is the rebels or us, you must decide

Obama cast his most thoughtful look
He said sir you know I've got drones
When they pick up the phone from the battle zone
I promised to treat them as I would my own

CHORUS (w/ change)
The leader went to his people
He rang the bells from the steeple
Countrymen, he cried please don't be afraid
Obama has promised the rebels won't be saved

Ending
The moral of this story is
Go looking for the news
If you snoozed through Benghazi
You're bound to lose

(c) 2014, Lisa Gundling

Hi Lisa:

What a gem of a lyric! If I had been blindfolded and someone had read it to me... I would have sworn that it came from the pen of Lynn Orloff... and that is a very high compliment.

Clever, my friend. Naturally, I enjoyed it so much that I read it twice.

Regards,

Dave

So uh, Ben, uh, you blaming Bush like Obama does?

From the moment you opened with the above comment, I agreed with your whole post, Dave, . I don't think we really wanted to win a conflict since WWII.

I just had a weird thought. Today I read about UFO reports through the years in the state of Georgia. What if we have been contacted by and told by aliens what we can and can't do? What if they said we can get into battles but we cannot win them? Maybe THAT'S why!

Hi "Linkster:"

Good to hear from you. Hopefully, we will pick and choose our wars very carefully from now on. Before we forget, the War on Terror, declared on us by Radical Muslims, is still going on. It appears to be a very broad front and not only aimed at the United States. I believe I would fight that war somewhat differently because of the cowardly enemy we are forced to fight.

In conventional wars, we have the Geneva Accords but this one really has no civilized rules of engagement. Sad we can't step back and simply leave each other alone... but these people are hell-bent to take over the religious world and impose Sharia law on all of us.

The UFO thing is interesting but probably tainted by some twisted journalist seeking fame... and fortune. We never seem to be able to gather absolute proof of "Alien" existence. (Just like the Sasquatch... LOL!) I don't doubt that they exist but I can't wrap my small brain around the concept yet. Maybe someday soon.

Regards,

Dave

Hi all,
well, but nobody here knows what is happening here in Ukraine...

some notes:
http://lb.ua/news/2014/02/23/256834_dom_pshonki_ustroili_ekskursiyu_.html

this is a video about a home of the former general prosecutor of Ukraine,
who escaped,
just look at this luxe and then think:
could a person who has a salary of the state employee to own this all?
Ok, but maybe, the country is so rich too?
No! Budget is empty, new government decleared cut of expenses,
cuz former stole almost everything they could.

And this is one of the reasons of MAIDAN (this is a special word
that means "square") and all the protests against a power of a gang ( yes, former power could be called this word).


But problems and participants are various...we even don't
know who's behind snipers who killed people on the MAIDAN just
with one shot (to the head or heart), I'm sure they weren't
Ukrainians, but the hired shooters from abroad.

Next, now Putin entered his troops into Crimea and everybody
afraid that big war could start there.

He (Putin) used a farcical reason to cover his agression:

"to protect Russian citizens"

looks like he didn't learn a history in his school...
if he did, he knew that Ukrainians are the best partisans of the
last centuries, like Sidor Kovpak whose army acted in the rear of
Hitler. And the problem is: Russians and Ukrainians looking alike
and speak the same language, so, in the day partisans could be
civil, but in the night - rebels, right in Moscow!

just phrase: sow the wind, reap the whirlwind

there are many sides of the conflict in Ukraine, some are
inside and some are outside( and those are not just Putin alone...),
one word: geopolitics...that means this:


if you look as a food, you'll be swallowed up sooner or later

well, the Russian border is just 50 miles to Kharkov and their tanks could get my city in 2 hours, so,
I even thought, maybe, we had better to emigrate?
My son lives in Australia 8 years, but this affair is too expensive for me to get something like a citizenship or other thing there.

Hi Alek:

I'm hoping you and yours are safe. It appears that the Crimea is Russia's objective but at this point, nobody knows for sure. Please keep us informed when and if you have time. You and your countrymen are in my prayers. May freedom prevail for you.

Dave

My well wishes go to Alec and all the innocent people caught up in this mess. From my limited knowledge (far less than Alec�s) the Ukraine is already split within itself between East & West political ambitions. Also the fact that this was at one time all part of the Soviet Union renders this in the realm of a civil war. The USA should have learned lessons in the past to stay out of these complicated situations. I don�t have any remedies, just observations.

John

I have a remedy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T81xsEyfl3c

Forgive my doubt that this group has anything positive to lend to the situation in the Ukraine. People there are about to lose everything... including freedom and possibly their lives. Perhaps I did not watch long enough... but, this is not my kind of music. Let's hope that they don't encounter the same situation as the Ukranians at some point in the future.

We are living in a world where leadership is severely lacking on our side of the ledger. Our administration is too busy attmpting to turn us into a socialist regime where honest voters are insignificant and freeloaders are the recipients of favors in order to garner their illegal votes.

November looms large in whether or not we are going to survive as the nation made great by our efforts to free the world during WWII... back when the tenets of decency and honor were our only reasons for fighting and winning that war. Then rebuilding Europe via the Marshall Plan.

Heaven help Ukraine and us, as well.

No, it was meant for the guy who said "remedy" made me think of this song. lol

You seem passionate about the issue, write about it!

I think most people are so immune to world problems, we have our own, and talking about it doesnt seem to do anything but cause fights.

At least, it's refreshing to read about real and different problems, large issues as opposed to reading news about the same people here every day.

I think songwriting sites, should be about songwriting, but a song about this issue will work. bang it out!

Mornin' Bugsey:

Thanks for not taking my "mini-rant" personally. You are 100% correct. I am passionate about this tragedy. The beauty of this songwriting site is that it has so many forums where almost any facet of music and all the facets related to it. The general message forum is slightly different.

I spend more time here at the general message forum and then the songwriting forum than most others. When I post something it is because I care or am concerned. I don't discuss things that are personal about me but certainly understand when someone who has a problem of that sort shares it with us.

During the more than ten years I've participated in songwriting, I've observed that songs about National Tragedies seldom chart... and if they do, they don't stay up there long. Folks are looking for songs about love, humor or some zany thing that distracts them from their hum-drum lives. This one won't work for me. It is too sad.

Thanks for your thoughts.

This planet would benefit more if the whole idea of going to war was scrapped and everything was settled over a cup of tea and a plate of biscuits. As for songs, John Denver wrote Let Us Begin (what are we making weapons for) and I'd recommend that song to anybody and everybody. Same with Last Night I Had The Strangest Dream, and many other songs, and in the writing department, could do with anti-war/protest songs (and I know that John and Pete would agree 100%)

There was another song writer named John, who, I Imagine, would agree with you.

Topical songs, detailing a specific incident, may have a short shelf-life(Although I still hear "Ohio" sung fairly often in coffee houses and street corners), but songs that are either deeply personal, or else universal, fare a bit better. Sticking strictly to anti-war songs, here is just a starter list that I've heard more than 30, 40 & 50 years after they were written.

Blowin' in the wind
With god on our side
Where have all the flowers gone
Universal soldier
War(What is it good for)
Born in the USA
Alice's Restaurant
For what it's worth

And that's just off the top of my head....As song writers, that ability to make it universal or deeply personal, would be our challenge.

Or, we can simply follow the guidance offered in Train's song, "Meet Virginia":

We just like to sit at home
and rip on the President.

Midnite

First official Putin's appearence after Crimea invasion

Putin on Ukraine: What he said, and what he meant

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-ukraine-said-meant-152900707.html

So, just two cents of mine:

Putin is a big liar!

who's interested, ask me why I do that statement

lol, A song not charting has little to do with songwriting. I mention write a song, cause it's a way to vent. Regardless if anybody hears it. Have you had to worry about a song charting yet? LOL

Write it and put it on youtube, if one person sees it, you made a connection.

Hi Bugsey:

To my way of thinking, charting is the primary reason I write. I don't mean to imply that any of my songs have charted. Several have come close. I did not begin this long-standing ordeal with the idea that songwriting would be a hobby. My partner was an accomplished singer and had several key roles in movies. He had connections with lots of performers through his father, a local radio personality who often hosted Eddie Arnold, Willie Nelson, Elvis and many others who would stop by on their way to or from Nashville. Many would spend the night and the jam sessions would go on for hours in their home.

Unfortunately, I've moved and his father has passed away so the contacts trail has "gone cold." When I worked in Nashville, it had nothing to do with music. Too bad my crystal ball did not inform me that songwriting would enter my life after retirement.

Contacts in the Music Industry are almost as important as talent.

Sorry to stray from the thread I started. If you will notice, we've heard again from Alek, our member in the Ukraine. Things don't sound good there but we always have hope that this won't turn into a senseless war.

Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

The whole thing is disheartening.

John Kerry looks like a complete moron. He should sit down and shut up. He's making things worse. I understand that it's a difficult situation and the Obama administration may not, understandably, know what to do.

But, until you really know what you're doing, and until you really have a plan, there is nothing wrong with a little bit of silence and/or a few {intelligent sounding} words.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

Lisa

Well said, Lisa:

I'm not sure anyone in the current administration knows how to do anything except try to rob from the middle class while blaming everything on the rich. I wish John Kerry would go back to watching his wife's minions make ketchup.

I'd also feel better if Ronald Reagan was "holding the reins" in this situation... there would be no doubt about foreign policy and our economic direction.

Regards,

Dave

I have VERY strong feelings about all this as about as deep a knowledge level as a mere citizen can have with the data/info that is available.

Our military, though stronger than any other, is still too weak to do anything about this without all out war breaking out and total financial collapse occurring, meaning rich people will PROFIT from the crash since they always know what will happen before anyone else and can protect and grow their money even further, and retirees and anyone who has invested in retirement or in general will lose most or all they have saved. Meanwhile many kids will be massacred, much money will be made by the military complex which Eisenhower warned us about, and in the end, little or nothing will change. Most of these problems needed to be dealt with in the first year of Obama's term. Our agreements with Poland and the Czech Republic to place missiles in their countries would have prevented any rise from Russia.. Those missiles scared the hell out of Putin and when Obama gave them up and got nothing in return, the game was lost already. From that point on Putin could do what he wanted with little consequence. Obama's moronic opposition to Fracking and the Keystone pipeline also plays into Russia's ability to black mail the Germans and others in Europe to do his bidding. Putin could not have a more beneficial US President on his side if he had placed a puppet there himself.

But that's just my opinion, I could be right.

Brian

Well,
After maybe 6000 years of Civilation it appears the World is still a "Work in progress" Gee sorry Lisa I just broke Mark Twain's Cardinal Rule! I guess I'm 6000 years too late, or 6000 years too early! It looks like I have my work cut out for me!

I don�t know if I�d use the word �progress� Ray. Maybe a work in degeneration.

John

This story keeps on changing. Sounds as if Crimea is to be partitioned and "re-joined" to "Mother Russia." I don't understand the masked soldiers wearing uniforms with little or no identification. Does Putin believe anyone is being fooled?

No matter, if a major war is averted and the rest of Ukraine is able to determine its own future, I suppose this naked act of aggression will eventually work its way out.

We can certainly draw the conclusion that our "fearless leader" who never served his country in the military... is no leader of men or shrewd strategist. Hurry November... and pray we can regain control of both the Senate and hold on to the House. Then maybe we can keep spending under control, eliminate the need for the IRS and straighten out the Justice Department.

The one undeniable fact is that the Ukraine is broke. They needed to borrow money and had two offers, one from the EU and one from Russia. The EU offer was vague and came with a myriad of strings attached, including big reductions in what was paid to pensioners. The Russian offer was 15 billion, as long as they supported Russia. The president went with the Russian offer and received 3 billion immediately.

As soon as the Ukraine went with Russia instead of the EU there were protests in Kiev. It was also reported that literally bus loads of protest supporters came from EU countries to support these protestors. At that point the protests took on a violent turn.

You could say the EU took a cloaked action to get its way and the Russians took an overt way to get its way. Unfortunately the only real losers in this are the Ukrainian people.

In April the Ukrainian contract with Russia's petroleum companies ends and expect a large increase in costs to EU energy costs. It's not just heating energy but most of EU industry depends on relatively cheap energy costs now. The price is likely to double.

Much of the Ukraine industry is located in the East and in the Crimea. With the loss of this income the West is going to have an even bigger bill to support the Ukraine and there is a good chance that draconian cuts in benefits will be imposed on the Ukrainians.

It should also be pointed out that much of the London, German banking system has depended on a regular influx of Russian petro dollars to shore up their banking system and at this point Russian petro dollars may find their way East into the Asian banking system instead.

Overall this is chest beating match between the EU and Russia. Neither side is blameless but the US involvement should be minimal unless it just wants to join in the chest thumping. The EU pulled off a coup just like they did in Libya except they didn't think that Russia would react so overtly. Like Libya they are doing their best to draw the US into their folly.

edit: I just read this AM that one of the EU restrictions is reducing pensions by 50%.

All that part of the world is like a tinder box which will explode sooner or later.Each little war could be the fuse that ignites it.Israel is in the sights of most nations in that area,including Russia, for many reasons.It is all told in the bible what will happen and what countries will be involved.The only thing not told is the exact date it will happen.But from all signs,it will be soon.

Thanks, Sue:

Very informative reading... and it sure helps explain why we should stay in the background, doing what we can to alleviate the problem. I still feel so badly for the people of the Ukraine. They have endured horrors during WWII at the hands of the Nazis and Stalin, as well.

We have so much to be grateful about here in the free world.

Everett:

Let's hope the Sacred Texts were thinking about a few years "down the road." Unlike you, (more than 2000 songs) I have a few more songs I need to write and record before having to atone for my many sins.

All the best,

Dave

Maybe a few years but not all that many. Your sins are already paid for,you just have to believe and accept.

Hi Everett:

I know you are right... but I have this cloud that keeps on hanging around because of all the tacky names I've given Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and old big ears, I'm afraid God might be a Democrat... LOL!

Well Dave,
If you get really depressed you can go listen to my song AROUND THE HORN at
http://www.geocities.ws/fiverosesmusicgroup/ under Ray's Music.

I'm not sure but I think the Russians went into the Ukraine to stableize it. No doubt it is a mess as are we here. Yes living here in the U.S. is a great place to live! I remember the Boxer Mohammed Ali after his bout in Zaire saying thank God his Ancesters got on that boat. It's hard to believe how bad some paces still are in the world.

Hi Ray:

Thanks for the listen. The vocalist did a top notch job for you. I always enjoy a good traditional style country song and this one did not disappoint.

During all my travels... I always enjoyed setting foot back on free American soil. Many places I've been were very nice but a few certainly made me happy my ancestors sailed to Virginia during the 1600's.

Ray, I will give the link to that story from a top independent on-the-ground investigative journalist for foreign affairs, (Daniel McAdams), after the interview I just edited for Robert Wenzel is published Sunday, 7AM EST.

McAdams has unique info of actual happenings and reasons that are NOT published on mainstream media, (for obvious reasons). I suggested to the show's executive producer, Chris Rossini, (my son in law), that McAdams and Wenzel record an update info interview for a few minutes today (they agreed on a 4PM EST update recording time), so I can insert that most current info for tomorrow morning's publishing on Wenzel's "Economic Policy Journal"'s website. ("The Robert Wenzel Show" Podcast with Daniel McAdams).

It's weird how I know some info that is not known by most yet! When I hear the one sided news reports of either party, as they all are, of course, (ask Ben Swann and Daniel McAdams in email sometime), I shake my head and feel sorry for the masses that think they are getting all of the stories. Then, they either support their party leader, or crucify them. ("They know not what they do"). Misinformed people base everything on either CNN or Fox News for their knowledge. YIKES! (And similar ones of course).

For Ben Swann's inside take on media, listen to his interview I also edited, (for Marc Clair on his Lions Of Liberty site). Ben Swann is also one of those true investigative journalists, who are not NOW part of either of the two partied controlled media. (Being they censor, or ignore, (as Ben Swann personally knows from before working for a major network).

Stay Tuned! McAdams will give his insightful info starting tomorrow at 7AM EST on: http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/

Of course, it will be able to be played anytime after 7AM Sunday EST, and will also be on Youtube. Enjoy!

Well, Dave Johnny,
The unoffical word out there is Putin wants to re-invigrate the Soviet Union. Someone wrote that you can't go home again. So Putin has a enormous task on his hands to accomplish that. But what do I know? Lots of people in the old Soviet Union want the old ways, others don't.

When the Soviet Union fell I said at that time there would be problems down the road. Not only did the Russians lose their position but the US financial people p'd on their parade so much that they took away their dignity too.

You can pretty much get away taking everything from a person but your asking for trouble once you take away their dignity.

People like Putin don't want the old Soviet system... they just want to get their dignity back and that's even more dangerous to fool with.