JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Taylor Swift Alternative

I hate to call you out like this, Marc...but everybody in Nashville knows Liz Rose wrote that song and her whole first album with (and more likely for) her.
I was at the CMA awards (you probably were, too) when she received the Horizon (or whatever it is they call their "promising newcomer") Award. She was a senior in high school then, and had obviously already garnered some success, but it was "manufactured". She wears it well, and it was great investment on her father's part.

Kurt,

We are going to have to dissagree because that is not what Liz told me personally in the past at an ASCAP party, or what she said last Wed, when she was asked that exact question at Third and Lindsley. And it is also not what Troy Tomlinson, the head of Sony music, who signed her to her deal at Sony, or what Scott Borchetta has said both privately to people and publiclly.It is also not what my friend Danny Wells who wrote with her before, nor two other writers who wrote with her before her success. And Liz wrote seven songs on her first album not all of them.

So we all have our sources. Mine dissagree with yours. And mine appear to be a lot closer to the source than either you or I.

As far as the investment for her Dad, yes it did work out well. Unlike thousands of other similar deals that have gone down since I have been here with everyone who thinks they can throw money at something and achieve certain results.

There are two camps on this. The people that think everything is manufactured and those that seem to find "devine inspiration" and that somethings just plain happen.

I only go on things people I trust actually tell me. They could be fooling me, of course, I was not there past meeting her when she first moved to town. I was not in the studio, was not in the writing session, I missed my chance. It doesn't matter to me one way or another, I recieve nothing from anyone on any of this.
MAB

My sentiments, exactly.
Liz is credited with co-writing that song.
I don't trust the business enough to assume that people aren't being paid off to perpetuate myths, and I know that non-disclosure clauses proliferate.
But, like you said, I don't have a pony in this race.
More power to her, but I still haven't heard one song from her that has made me want to listen again, and I have heard several that have made me turn them off. Not my cup of tea...but that's allowed.
I hope you're well.

Charlie, you can help her do that. You can help publicize her. Send out things to your friends, direct links to her web site. find out if she is performing in your area, tell people about her shows. Contact her personally through her web site. Buy her CD's and encourage other people to do that. Join her contact list on her site.

This is what we all can do when we find someone we like. Publicize them. That is what Viral Marketing is all about. One person tells someone else who tells someone else, who passes information to ten others and so forth and so on. You don't have to wait on anything.

You have started it here. Because you were interested in this girl, others here have heard about her. Now maybe they will get into what she does, and they will pass it on.

That is about all we can do in anything. We can write it, record it, tell people about it, build teams, network, repeat, repeat repeat. When we find people we like, we pass that on.

I hope she does well, I really do. I am not here to debate Taylor Swift or anybody. Just provide a different point of view from people I have heard it from. The bottom line is that there are a lot of people who deserve more than they get. Hopefully this girl will get a boost from you.

About all you can do.

MAB

Kurt,

You know I'm the same as you. I never said I loved Taylor's stuff. Just respect what she does and go on mine and other people's observations. I just don't think you can fool all the people all the time. If you can she is doing it.

I don't know if you noticed but I started a thread using you as a subject in it. My entire point was to demonstrate the RELATIONSHIP factor in this town. The friendships we build, the people that help us and vice versa. I turned you into Jamey Johnson, but really just to illustrate a point.

I wish all these people on these threads could come to town, go to one of those third Sunday parties or some of the cool writers nights, guitar pulls, or interesting hang out events, hear some songs, meet some writers and see the Nashville we have both experienced. And to see some of the things that happen that are not so good as well. We have all seen all of those.

Good to hear from you and hope you are well as well. Stay off of those big towers when bad weather comes up.

MAB

Carley Rae Jepsen won third place on Canadian Idol season 5 but didn't really have much success on the radio with her first release. Bieber and Selena Gomez were in Ontario visiting family and they heard Call Me Maybe on the radio which wasn't gaining much traction in Canada. Didn't even chart at the time in the US. They loved it so they tweeted about it. Few weeks later it's the biggest song in the world. A song that her team was about to give up on became the song that you don't wanna hear anymore. Haha. I like that story. It's one of the most extreme underdog stories out there and who knows how often that happens. You just never know who is hearing your song and can make a difference and change your life.

There are MANY Songs that could get millions of fans IF millions could hear the song once....HE Helped her for free.

Very true Barry David. I just need Someone famous to tweet my song. Lol.

People have been trying to turn me into Jamey Johnson for a while. You're the first who has succeeded.

Hey Aaron I'll put one of yours on my facebook page if you want....lol....Of course I'm only famous and a legend in my own mind but what the hell If I'm not my own biggest fan I ought to just quit.

I was thinkig of taking her out for dinner. A musician can never have enough free dinners.

I actually meant, Id be happy with her career, she seems to be doing fine. But I did download some of her songs.

And i did indeed mention her here. Im sure she cant keep track of her itunes downloads now...

One time if the song was rediculously catchy. 5, 10 listens and you might like it enough to steal it!

I think tweets and mentions are so overrated. Look at American Idols. These kids are on every night for months if they last on the show, and once the show ends, the vast majority cant sell.

They might have an edge on a regular indie, being somewhat famous for a while, but like i mentioned, until we fix the income problem, we can have an industry full of famous people who make nothing.

You can be on American Idol and not be all that special. I have watched most of the seasons and I can hardly remember 90% of the contestants. It's just a tv show to most people. They don't go out and buy their music on itunes after they are eliminated. There is no bigger picture to the American Idol audience. Unless you're in the top 5, you're not gonna be remembered but there are exceptions.

I know, but even the winners dont do all that well. A few have had huge careers but only a handful.

it may very well be that people are not blown away by modern music, and that if artists were making full length albums as good as Hotel Calfornia, Bat Out Of Hell, Dark Side Of The Moon, they would buy it.

Maybe we need to bring back vinyl, so that people have a product to hold in their hand, and dont mind buying it.

or maybe the cat is so far out of the bag, the music biz as we knew it is dead

I've listened to all or parts of a number of Jess Penner's songs.

She's OK and if it speaks to you that's fantastic. I suppose I can see how she might be getting this material placed in ads and TV shows where it would be more background atmosphere. But it's not hit music and it doesn't compare to Taylor Swift at all in that department.

You don't hear where these songs are different from something like "You Belong With Me" ? I mean, I'd probably choose Penner to listen to ahead of Swift if those were the only two options but it's pretty obvious why Swift is on the radio.

Hype is the main ingredient in success. If you can get that bandwagon rolling, success will follow. If enough people say someone or something is great, then most people will listen and try that product, then it picks up speed and propagates on its own, anyone that says it is nothing special will feel out of the loop and not with it, and nobody wants that, especially young people. They want to be IN and popular, peer pressure makes young people do things and say things they may not want to do or believe in. That is why companies spend so much money on advertising, they try to make you believe their product is the best and if you are not using it, then there must be something wrong with you.

What makes someone's hype work better than someone else's hype, I don't know. If they realize that they've been HAD by hype, most people will not admit to that and will continue backing that person or product just to save face. People are funny and complex creatures, if you can get them to like you, you have it made, but if they don't like you, forget about it, no matter how good you are, you are done. I guess first impressions are very important for people in the public eye, so a good personality is very important for performers, Taylor Swift knows this, smart girl, and she works it to her advantage. Garth Brooks also used that to his advantage. Never come off as being high and mighty and better than your fans, a swollen ego will be seen quickly by people and become a great turn off. Talent is just a starting point to success, many other ingredients come into play, let one of those ingredients be missing and the fabric will start to unravel.

Well said, Everett:

Hype! Just another name for the power of big money. I've enjoyed reading the comments on this thread. Who knows which direction "The Biz" will take. jay23 is right about the resurgence of vinyl and many are now collectors of old albums and their unique "artsy" covers. Somehow, buying an MP3 Memory Stick leaves me a little cold. Sure, it is an efficient method of delivery but I can remember spending hours listening to a record and reading the "hype" on the back of the cover. LOL!

Have a great week, guys and gals.

Dave

A hit song, is a song that has been heard millions of times.

Getting material placed in ads and on TV is next to impossible as well, at least where it makes money. Alomost as hard as having a song placed.

Its obvious why Taylor Swift is on the radio? Ya think? If you were on the radio yesterday, you have a great chance of being on the radio today. if you werent, you dont.

it is absoutely hit song material. Same catchy hooks, same uplifting subjects, well produced bubble gum pop. there is just not enough time in a day or ears around to listen to everybody who has a great track.

Remember. Taylor Swift wasnt always on the radio, the only thing obvious about it is that she is the most familiar name in the music business.

There is a thing in psychology called "social proof"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof

People still do this, when one person finds something good, another one does, when more start to like it, even more reciprocate.

The music business has always used this to their advantage. Boy Bands... They make videos of a boy band where women are screaming, or chasing them down the street or crying at a concert, before this band is even signed!

Then it makes all the girls think..Oh they must be great. everybody is going nuts for them.

I mean you cant have millions and millions of fans before anybody has heard your music or seen you play CAN YOU?

Hey cool. This is where I first saw her, I thought perfect woman for me, yeah she looks at least 30 here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9P2JYBjBCs

If you go by spotify listens, her most popular song would be "life is Rosy" coming in at 2,725,951 whereas the one I posted on top was 9,000 only.

Personally I like the first one better, this is kinda like a motown throwback. but I could easily hear this girl on the radio, then I could start to hate her! LOL

There is even a karaoke version of this lol. Im guessing this song was in a movie somewhere, but I dont know for sure.

What do you think? a modern Diana Ross?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIyeZDeci7c

I think I want some of what you're smoking!

uhmm "its obviius why she has 2 million 7 hundred listens."

How many do you have again?

At thi point I think you're just trolling. It was a good attempt. I give you a 6/10.

Im a fan, I think she is an excellent writer and singer.

Jay is simply coming back, he is angry that I dont agree with his breakdowns.

Sorry I meant trolling by throwing out a name like young Diana Ross to try to make some kind of point.

Hey, if I had said Taylor Swift is a modern Dolly Parton, you wouldnt object, because she is rich and famous, and you would cite her numbers as some proof.

It doesnt make it any more true, because somebody is a wealthy singer.

Calling this girl a modern Diana Ross is a bit hyperbole, and not intended to be takin literally.

But if u want to argue music, and you dont hear motown and a Diana Ross influence, well....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ7uXX9K7Sk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIyeZDeci7c

NO, NOTHING like it. Even sweetness like Diana Is diana better? Of course.

Not angry at all! I just found it humorous that you would put that gal anywhere in the ballpark with Diana Ross. But I see you're saying you weren't serious so it's all good. It's all good anyway on my end!:)

I don't waste my time comparing anyone to anyone. No point.

Well its an unfortuante consequence of only having 12 notes to work with. Everything is everything.

Unless we are talking indian or arabic music.

its all good. But people get compared all the time, its not really fair to either artist, but people do make comparisons.

She should pitch this one to Ms Swift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx7bJ6dHYLY

Charley,

If you want to see one of the singers I have worked with, watch THE VOICE tonight on NBC.Meghan Linsey is from New Orleans and actually had a deal with the duo STEEL MAGNOLIA on BIG MACHINE (Taylor Swift's) label.

She is down the the final few I guess. I really don't watch these shows but will do it for support tonight. I guess I'll even vote.

MAB

Well hopefully your girl comes on before the college finals starts in about 10 minutes.

I had 4 brackets, 3 were busted when kentucky lost, but I have one where I have both Duke and Wisconsin in the finals.

I need Duke to win.

Yeah. This show is about to bore me to death. A glorified karaoke night. So much about this business I don't like.

All tied at halftime. I like my chances, Momma needs need a bass guitar!

I did see her, sounds great. I dont think shell win, but that dont really matter

I agree, nothing more annoying than overrated pop stars bloveating about who they think is "better"

I get a chuckle out of the mentoring segments, yeah like those little tidbits put the singer ver the top. No, they are designed to make the judges seem like they are earning their money!

College Sports, none of that Bullchit!

See lots of singers on the voice on reverbnation and twitter having a tough time using their exposure on national tv to their advantage. Reality shows just aren't the springboard they used to be at the start.

The DUKIES do it for me!!!

ironically I hate Duke, too glorified and heralded of a program, but i was a fan tonight.

I think im sharing with a few other people, but it beats ripping up the sheet!

Cause exposure doesnt translate to money, in a world where people dont buy music. Live Shows are still where you can make some.

But I think when we say they "dont make it" we mean on the grand scale. i think the exposure can help you get gigs, "come see so and so of American idol at Larry's Bar And Grill friday night, dollar beers and chicken wings till midnight!

I wouldnt mind that, regular gigs with a decent pay, How long could you keep the gigs coming though?

hmmm...

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Ibanez-SR300-Bass-Guitar-104811674-i1392771.gc

http://www.wsj.com/articles/itunes-music-sales-down-more-than-13-this-year-1414166672

Factoring in CD sales, which have been plunging for well over a decade, overall music sales in most of the world held steady last year. Japan was an exception, with steep drops in physical and digital sales alike. World-wide revenue from recorded music totaled $15 billion in 2013. In the U.S., recorded music sales are nearly 50% below their peak in 2000, though they’ve been essentially flat for the past few years.

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15 billion dollars. People are still buying music. It is a cop out whenever someone parrots that POV that people aren't buying music. What Marc is gloomy about is the slots for pro songwriters are shrinking. Those filler spots on a recording artists albums are now being filled by songs written by the artist instead of one of Marcs friends/acquaintences.

The music industry is not in trouble. The songwriters who made a living off of writing fillers, their career is in trouble because I don't have to buy their song. And why would I buy it if I don't like it? Therefore they don't make as much money like they would have if I had bought the whole album which is what you had to do before. That's why there was more money for songwriters and more slots available. It's not because of "illegally downloading or the evil streaming services"

15 billion worldwide is not a number to sneeze at.

Me personally I have spent at least 1500 over the years buying music on iTunes. And probably another grand more on CDs over the course of my 29 years.

How much have you made from I take this beer?

The huge pop stars will probably sell singles, and Im guessing the huge stars are fudging the numbers.

think about yourself for a minute. Do you buy music? The only time I have bought music was to support a fellow musician, not because I need another song!

I buy my favorites regardless, but I even admit to not buying, when i can hear everything free.

Why would I be any different than others?

I heard an interview with Billy Joel from a year or two ago, he was saying nobody is selling music any more, and that's Billy Joel

I think itunes helped a bit but they got greedy and started chargin 1.25, and then free streaming killed them.

I can see why it's a big deal to Marc and all other songwriters trying to make their dreams come true but let's not make this out to be the end of the world. The music industry is not going to die off because non performing professional songwriters are being replaced by the recording artists they used to write for. Music will always be around. Always. and people will pay money. Always.

What I have made is none of your business and it will never be your business.

All you have against my point is the recording artists are probably fudging their numbers. If you have nothing to say to back up your claims you probably shouldn't say anything at all.

youre missing the point.

RECORDED music is not making money. People with enough fans will have no problem making money when they can rent an arena to play in. or even smaller club venues.

But songwriters, and people who help make a record come into being dont. Neither do artists who have limited live shows

If CD baby had to rely on the income the music they distribute alone, they would have sunk along time ago, but they were smart, they make you pay to release your music.

I realize this is an unpopular view on a songwriting website but songwriters are being held to some god like status. Like any industry there are ebbs and flows and good times and bad times. Songwriters are no different. Most of them make no money. Some make good money. Few make great money. There never was a time where songwriters made out like bandits. It's always been a rags to riches kind of story. They've always been a poor bunch. I have no clue why songwriters being poor is being blamed on my generation when they've always been poor. [naughty word removed]. People will always look for a fall guy or someone to blame.

Yes. As I have already said. People don't need to buy albums anymore. Albums that are full of filler songs are no longer desirable. We buy whatever songs we want and leave out the rest. As it should be.