JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum Lyric writing question??

Hey, Michael here,
Just read most of your posts. I just want to say, if you are drivin to write songs, that is a gift. If you choose to analylize it and break it down, to study a formula to get your butt a hit song, that is cool too. But, if you have the gift, you will have that hit song under your belt anyway. It WILL come to you. Study songwriting all you want. I say you already have the gift. Having said that... Let's look at the record buying public. All they know for the most part is what is at the record stores that they can buy from what they heard on record company owned radio stations. Yes, Gasp, it is all true. So, I say to you, that Record Companies Groom the market! They state by advertising power, What is the
next big thing and such. This is nothing new. Look at every Christmas. We have the must have toy of the year. I say unto you, as t********s, by jumping into the game of analyizing the best songwriter dudes that had hits, you are jumping on the bandwagon of the latest groom of the public spin.
We have so many alternative avenues now for the independent writer. Stay true to your vision. THAT IS WHAT MAKES YOU WHO YOU ARE.
Ok, that wore me out. I have to go finish a lyric. ha ha ha. I think not. I think I will just wait for Mister Inspiration to come and all will be fine. That is how I work anyway.
thanks for tuning in,
Michael H.

Hey,
Me again,
I had a block out on my last post. I said t********s. Is that not legal?
Michael

Hey again,
I can't believe this. Ok, let's play musician Jeopardy. T N E. S M I H.
Michael H.

I don't think every line needs to stand on its own. Some of them can be transitional or in context.

As to the "Remember When" phenomenon. My daughter loves the song. She's fourteen. She doesn't know the lines in the songs are cliches because she isn't old enough to have heard many others like them. Every generation gets to reinvent the wheel. Alan Jackson's performance sounds heartfelt, the lines, while predictable and unoriginal, are perfectly sound emotional expressions. It's a song that I wouldn't have brought to a publisher, but also one I would have been proud to have written.

Regarding workshops, seminars, books and the like. There is absolutely no connection between having one or several hits and being able to teach songwriting. The best, and most useful seminars and etc. teach songwriting. None of them can teach how to write a hit song, only how to structure a song like many hits have been structured.

Well, the power went out here, so I'm going to post this and save the laptop battery.

All the Best,
Mike



------------------
Mike Dunbar Music

Another couple cents (I think I already gave two cents before).

"Nashville" (and L.A., and wherever else we think of The Music Biz beijng located) is interested (in my opinion) in *selling records* (or whatever passes for records nowadays--CDs?). The market for those records appears (my opinion) to be more people like my teenaged daughter. Not me--I have yet to buy a single CD (though I've been given a couple). The other musicians I hang out with appear to be mostly the same way; if they buy anything, it's sheet music. More importantly, our audience appears to be the same way: they may be going out of their way to attend live performances, but they're not buying CDs.

In part, that's because there's nothing on CDs they want to hear, and the live performances are playing stuff they want to hear--but I don't think that's the whole reason (or all the reasons). I'm really not sure if Our Kind Of Music were available commercially that they would buy CDs anyway. Part of it is probably that the live performances are a social occasion, important for people in the country (it's a lot like the concerts I went to in college, with smaller amps and fewer illegal substances), and part of it is the experience of Real People Doing Creative Things--important, I think, in this largely spoon-fed, run-by-experts world.

If Nashville (or whoever) isn't going to make any money off selling CDs toi those people, why should it bother to cater to those people's tastes? People like my daughter, on the other hand, are Guaranteed Sales of the whatever-the-parents'-wallets-will-bear variety, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised or bothered that that's what The Music Biz is catering to.

I admit to being personally bothered that a lot of creativity (namely, mine) is being lost to a potentially wide audience because of this syndrome. In other words, I think I'm bothered by Nashville Missing The Boat primarily because I'm in it.

Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

Joe

testing

This is a mind-boggling comment. I find it hard to believe that a person could not find something they want to listen to. The music stores around here are enormous, with thousands of titles. I-Tunes boasts over 500,000 songs, and that's only a fraction of what is available. You and your friends must be VERY hard to please, or you are not looking very hard.

If you are using mainstream radio as your barometer for what is available, then I can understand your frustration. But to say that record companies are not offering anything that suits your fancy seems unreasonable and unbelievable.

And here's another thought: when you find something you DO like, BUY it and support the writer, artist, and the label that made it for you.

A little off-topic, but the word "lyrics" ranks higher in search engines than "music" (but quite as high as "Paris Hilton video").

Not sure what conclusion to make, but it's an interesting factoid I thought.



------------------
Michael Leahy
The Accidental Lyricist
http://michael-leahy.indiegroup.com

Music speaks straight to the heart and soul, you don't need a translator.

Lyrics are often mumbled, screamed, whispered, written as gibberish, or otherwise unintelligible.

People are probably trying to find out "what are the lyrics?" to that song they just heard. They don't need to find the music, because the music speaks to them on its own.

Obviously fodder for an entire new topic in what I wrote above.

Also, for full disclosure: Probably 90% of the songs I've written over the past couple of years have been instrumentals.

--- Ed


------------------
http://www.edperrone.com/music/index.shtml
http://edperrone.rideonmusic.com

One publisher who I sent some songs to wrote me back and gave me a critique (I didn't ask for one, nor wanted one). He went about ripping apart one my song, telling me what he thought was wrong with it and pointing out two lines he said were grammatically incorrect, one of which he said made no sense. At the same time telling me it was a great idea and melody but that the lyrics needed work. Ok, his opinion. I called my uncle who is a high school English teacher and asked him about the two lines, both he said were grammatically correct and made perfect sense, like I thought. This publisher is also a songwriter with a couple hits years ago and many cuts. The funny thing is you have a "pro" whose grasp on grammar is as such he corrects you when nothing is wrong. I searched some of his songs for the lyrics as well as the top 40 and more songs than not are full of little mistakes, such as, confusing past and present tense, talking in first and third person in the same songs etc., and it doesn't stop them from being hits. I really think some people have too much time on their hands. There's a song out now "Break Down Here", it goes from her talking "about him", to her talking "to him" from verse to verse. It is a good song but certainly a pro writer wouldn't make that mistake.. right?

Regardless of everyone's opinions about what makes a great song, it still boils down to opinions. In a lot of ways, that's a good thing. That means, there's pretty much something for everyone if you can write something that appeals to others. The hard part is finding the "others" who appreciate what you are trying to get across.

Just keep plugging away. If you write great songs, somebody will notice eventually. You just have to keep sending them out there...

Van

well it may or may not be literally true -- but it's certainly a good sentiment.

i took a lot of poetry workshops back in college - and they taught us that there shouldn't be a single word that didn't further the purpose of the poem. i think the same is true of lyrics.

personally i tend to excise lines that i think are weak -- but sometimes i just can't think of anything better. still - i strive to make sure that every *word* packs a punch. i think it's a good standard to hold yourself to, even if you can't always achieve it.

------------------
kit malone
http://www.kitmalone.com

[This message has been edited by kit (edited 04-08-2004).]

Then.....the professor emeritus from Harvard Literature Department said....."condense, condense, condense!"
I did say both were quotes, right!