JPF Home Page Forums Musician Gear and Techniques Music Theory and Education When is a minor third not a minor third?

A to C. It's a minor third, n'est pas? But put a G# in front of it and a Db after it.
What is it? Why? Who cares? Why?

All the Best,
Mike

------------------
Mike Dunbar Music

Hey !

This one I know !

But I'm gonna let somebody else get it..

Unless there's a prize !

Then, I want halvesies !

Bob

I don't know what a minor third is Mike, so not sure what the question is.
???????
I do know playing them four notes as a chord was goodness me so awful though.
I do know C is the third note of A minor scale.
Beyond that I am stymed.
???????????
Graham

------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

Graham,

Aha, you've helped me come up with another thread. I'll put one together on intervals soon.

Thanks,
Mike

------------------
Mike Dunbar Music

Just think 3 frets on the guitar Cobber..

A to C is a minor third..

If you play A, B, C...you're playing whole step, half step..
Continue with that and you're playing a diminished scale..
If you just play minor thirds up or down..thats a diminished arpeggio..

And..if you do either one nude standing on one foot balancing a Salmon on your nose singing Gilbert and Sullivan in German with your mouth and farting Swanee River.....

That's a full-time job with the Circus !

Bob Young

Thanks Bob. I'll work on the multi tasking thing Cobber.
Currently looking at just the G# and C# thing, leaving out the A and C, I make that a fourth, but nothing combining the four notes has come forth so far.
And all of them together still sound like you know what.
Talking Salmon Cobber.
I keep forgeting to mention.
In your Turn It Up Louder, you give the impression Salmon Gums is a bit of a wonder to you, so I will mention while in the education forum.
Salmon Gums is a variety of Eucalyptus tree.
Named so because of it's salmon pink coloured bark.
MY age, ya gotta say it while ya still remember it.
Graham

------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

[This message has been edited by Graham (edited 12-08-2003).]

Here's another clue.

The passage I spelled out for you was, according to the sounds, not the note names, part of a harmonic minor scale.

Generally speaking, one note to the next in a scale is the interval of some type of second.

Mike

------------------
Mike Dunbar Music

are we talking tone and semitone here Mike?
Totally lost me otherwise.
I do understand English is a second language to musicians in a lot of cases though.
Graham

------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/grahamhendersonmusic.htm

A tone is a whole step, a semitone is a half step. A Major second is a whole step, a minor second is a half step. A minor third is a Whole step and a half step...but...and here's the answer I'm getting at...there's another name for it, rather than minor third.

The question? What is that name?

Bob's got it, I'll bet someone else can come up with it.

Mike.

------------------
Mike Dunbar Music

Augmented 2nd?

------------------
John

http://www.nowhereradio.com/johnscott/singles

Bingo.

One half step larger than major or perfect is augmented. One half step smaller than minor or perfect is diminished.

The only diminished or augmented interval that occurs in a normal diatonic scale (do re me etc. without any accidentals) is the diminished fifth which is also the augmented fourth.

Augmented seconds occur in the harmonic minor scale.

Mike


------------------
Mike Dunbar Music

[This message has been edited by Mike Dunbar (edited 12-08-2003).]

Very good John !

I can see why some folks get scared of theory...
I know I still do....

I have never (that I can recall) heard the phrase "augmented second" used except in conversations like this.

When I'm arranging something, or explaining a part to another musician, I always say "up (or down) a minor third".

Now, Mike is much more educated than I am...and can give several reasons why both terms have their place.

Les Paul used minor thirds in alot of his overdubbing..he would refer to it as (that diminished sounding stuff)
He wasn't really playing in a diminished mode..just playing the same part up (or down) a minor third.

In other words, he'd play a run in A...then overdub exactly the same run in C or F#...or both !

If you've got a way to overdub parts at home, try it...
It's cool.

Bob

And here I thought the "augmented second" was the guy who stood up for you in a duel--if he had a weapon, too... Learn somethin' new ev'ry day. Thanks, folks.

Joe

Bob,

I agree. The only time I've ever heard a step and a half called an augmented second is when referring to middle eastern music, certain exotic scales (or psychedelic scales, such as used by the Grateful Dead), or in a harmonic minor scale.

The reason it's called an augmented second instead of a minor third is that since it is, in any of the above cases, the very next note in the scale, it has to be some kind of second...it's the second note played...if it were a third, there'd have to be a note from the scale in between. Since it must be the second note played, it must be the augmented second.

My memory is fuzzy, but I believe in the Japanese modes such as Pelog, Kumoi, and Hirajoshi, there are scalar intervals of a major third. If this were analyzed by the western style of music theory, these would be called doubly augmented seconds. (Ouch, my head hurts.) Maybe some of our members are familiar with the Japanese modes and can shed light through paper wall? In Japan, one does not "play" the banjo. Meri Karimasamu (I hope I got that right!)

All the Best,
Mike

------------------
Mike Dunbar Music

Mike...

You and your Japanese music stuff...what a freakin' show off !
All I know about Japanese music is what my first wife would sing out at certain times (if you know what I mean)

She was a very beautiful Japanese girl and we had 15 very happy years together.
(unfortunately, we were married 25 years)

Any way...regarding your Christmas wish..

My first wife was not a posessor of great wit, but I remember one year we were Christmas shopping and a couple stopped us and said to her, "Excuse us, but we have some Japanese neighbors and we wonder if you could tell us how to say Merry Christmas in a way they will understand ?"
Judy, without dropping a beat, looked back and said, slowly and succinctly, "Yes...Melly Klistmas"..and off we went !

Happy Holidaze Mike..see you in Chicago in Feb. !

lol @ Bob

bob,

I'm an old incorrigible show off. I'm currently typing this with my toes while playing Eruption on my strat.


My best to you and yours. I'm looking forward to seeing you in February.

All the Best,
Mike


------------------
Mike Dunbar Music