JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Your Thoughts On Recording Conventions

I was going to post this in BM Bland's interesting topic (pointers).
I thought I went too far off topic, yet I have questions I would like to pose to those in the music industry or anyone for that matter that would like to share their insights.

It started off as a question to BM Bland and ended up to what the industries expectations are for quality.
I know this is a more traditional, professional forum.

But if somone wanted to market a recording through complete crap for equipment, which has been done, is anyone still doing that?

Not that I ever intend on marketing anything like that.
I want to eventually make the most nice to the ears recordings I can.
But I wonder how many have that basement mentality with technology, or lack of better playing for that matter and have stuck by it?

Here's my original points and questions-------------------------

"BM Bland:

I read through and noticed that you deal in the rock genre too.
I don't know if anything I am doing would conform to any type of genre outside of some type of alt, pop rock.
And also if someone could do a home production off of a cubase or MIDI or even non-conventional means could be adequate.
I know with state of the art mixing consoles that a sub-standard recording can be very messy. .

All I recall from the me generation and the time of the old mp3.com, is that no matter how one thinks their relative skils stink, they had to say the other guy stinks when told they do, stand behind what they do, and pretend that something from them is grand even if it's the lousiest recording. That's experience to some.
Unfortunately, the arrogant more often gets noteriety than the humble that is honest of their shortcomings.
Especially with racous music.

Music in many ways over the last 40 years has had more to do with schtick and attitude than talent.
It's hard to believe what some consider marketable.
I heard a foul song on a site not long ago. Played over a rythmn sample and 2 notes, with gutteral language sungspoke.
And there were people that seemed to love it.
I used to be a natural with that. Except I tried to do lyrics in a more intellectual, MC5 type vein.
The entire version of quality seems to have been sub-standardized.
I think people use the net as a convienient catalyst for the diminished quality.
I could definately handle the first Iggy & The Stooges album and MC5. And now that anyone can put noise to a sound card, there would seem to be a case for blaming the computer for diminished quality.
But just like with what disco did for rock, it made those rockers try harder to be legitimate.
And there are tons of musicians on the net that can come out with outstanding recordings through their own conventions.
I would like to be a realist and learn how to record and play instead of pretend or use shock and obscenities.
I have been trying to learn to develop by playing the instrument through a sound card off and on for the last 3 years and just purchased a TASCAM. And am looking to master cubase and MIDI before I get to a marketable, LP lengthed production.

But I don't know why plush, consumate recordings are looked for so much.
The only groundbreakers are the ones that the consumates and A & R people never would have given a chance to.
Even alt rock was'nt accepted by the majors until the music was accepted finally by more than a cult audience.

I have copywritten my recordings.
My goal is to do orchastral type music on synth and guitar based on a concept.
Much like film music meets Pink Floyd (They can be rather synomonous, at least to me).

When I learn more about playing and songwriting, and get the proper recording equipment for that production, what steps then would I have to take?
I don't know about the publishing end yet, but from your posts it sounds like the recordings don't have to be studio made but adequate.

Thanks for your informative thread."

Matt

Matt:

You pose an interesting topic. I'm not sure if I'm even capable of responding. In the final analysis... to my way of thinking... it boils down to 1. personal taste; 2. personal talent and 3. personal wealth. (Recording equipment.) There is a fourth dimension and that is tenacity... a willingness to practice and hone one's skills.

I further believe that you don't actually require top of the line recording gear if you possess the other elements... but it sure would help. Thanks goodness they make "Fords and Chevies" and the same could be said for all the different styles/types/genres of music. It's all about personal choice.

Thanks for posing such an interesting and complicated question.

All my best,

Dave Rice

Thanks for your insights Dave!

Honestly, I have been the type that has in the past tried to build up my lack of talent as something new and fresh!
Much seems like noise.
But some like finger paint, others like great Italian artisists of the past.
Music in a big way has been a vehicle for me to keep motivated and out of trouble.
There was a time from where I have read up on history to where a great deal of time went into ones spirituality before they did an artistic work.
But all the same there was a method in getting there.
Now it seems to be, the hell with the method and time.
I'm trying to take the time and do things legitimately before I can say someone might want to spend 2 bits on what I do.
And I would like to make something for everyone and at the same time not compromise.
Being a reader of music publications, what is offensive or controversial seems to sell.
So far, lyrically, I try to make strong points that people for the most part can agree on.
But then I have a side that does'nt want to be compromising either.

I would like to be all things and yet still be myself.

But music and the persuit of trying to be creative has sure been a great motivator and has given me a spritual foundation.

I probably would not be alive if I had not looked at music as an outlet.

Matt

Matt:

Thanks for your perspective on this subject. I hope you won't spend alot of time anuguishing over what is past. It's the future that counts. Keep plugging away. Practice make perfect and it takes awhile for songwriters/singers to find themselves, musically. (Sometimes just to find themselves, LOL!)

You have a sensitive soul and that is a tremendous asset. Don't ever give up. Music can be a form of release even if it pleases no one but one's-self. You may be amazed at what a little time will do to your musical direction and accomplishments. Tenacity is the key if you have talent.

There are so many directions we can take in our musical adventures. Try the one that is most attractive to you and, if that doesn't work, take the next available path that looks like it might lead you somewhere. Don't believe for one instant that you cant work in multiple genres. I find it most satisfying even though it has not brought me wealth or fame.

You mentioned the "attitude" thing displayed by lots of artists. It may work for awhile but I don't believe it is an enduring thing spread over time. I suppose that's one of the reasons I admire Hoagy Carmichael's work so much. It is everlasting.

All my best,

Dave Rice

Just to add to what Dave has already said. Hoagy Carmichael is one of my mothers favourite all time artists. Yep he had attitude and was considered unconventional. Yep he was experimental. Yep he did not have electronic technology. He had TALENT and ability by the shed load.
Some of the most talented guys just stand and play. No attitude or OTT showmanship. Whereas some of the worst players are just all mouth and show with no substance.
Smoke and mirrors do not hide lack of technical ability.
Never much cared for fingerpainting much after nursery school. By then I was able to pick up a paintbrush.

Thanks Dave for your words of encouragement.
So true about those attitude bands.

They are often fads.

Even the handful that made it doing that had to evolve around their shtick.

I always had a side that like songs with deep orchastral arrangements. Some of the early blue eyed soul acts.
Playing mostly by ear, I have been trying to get into that style more along with modern rock influences.

I have 2 recordings that I would like to do a rewrite and make a presetable recording on for a cd project I would like to eventually do.
Time has'nt been really on my side because of outside matters.
But I would like to get help with production and whatever players may be needed when that time comes.
Along with material I do myself.
And I believe in paying for services up front.

Although I prefer to be mellow with some shock influences, I used to play abrasive because I thought I had to.

But I have come to appreciate the history of all music.

Whatever turns up with my eventual project, it will be an interesting journey.

I have something of a direction that looks attractive, but then I have all these other influences from the past creeping in.
I don't know if blue eyed punk is that easy of a mergeance.
I think Billy Idol tried it.
But it's great having a goal and a dream to explore upon.
I learn things here I would never learn in a music class.

Big Jim, I see even before rock there were people that colored outside those lines.
The more I look into it the more I seem to find that did their own thing.
Before I read of your mothers favorite artist, I would have thought that Kraftwerk was the start of the electronic age.
Even a lot of the pre-rock musicians were doing what was thought of as an unorthodox style.
I read where Irving Berlin was notable for that.
I probably have heard people hum those tunes tons of times.

I appreciate all the tips you have given and thank you both for your insights.

Matt

Matt,
For two cents I'd tell you that some artists work in pastels, others in oils and acrylics and some others in stone. None surpasses the other in artistry simply because of the medium. The guy who draws pictures on a sidewalk with chalk can have all the talent(if not more) than the sculptor or oil painter. He's no less an artist because he can't afford canvas and paint. In fact, he's probably more driven by his muse. He continues to draw what's in his soul regardless of the "quality" of the medium. That is what art should be about, and I applaud the man who says...so what if I don't have the fancy tools. I need to get this image out of my head and out where people can see what I have to say. Those are generally the folks I want to hear from anyway.
Money is no substitute for talent. Art for art's sake is why we are here.

I agree 100%.Sometimes money gets little talent places that great talent gets shut out of.It shouln't be that way but that's the way it is.Money talks.

Thanks much for the input Everett and Pete.

I like those acts that have that canvas and then can have something unique.

I have looked at acts like Golden Earring as one of those acts.

Going from the sixties beat scene to hard rock and churning out something unique like "Radar Love" and "Twilight Zone".
Maybe known only for 2 major hits, but what they did built up into an influence that bands that cover them can never quite duplicate.

And getting into a lot of the early vocal and blue eyed soul groups more recently, I can hear their influence all over the rock medium.

Those Gods definately did'nt spring into being overnite.

For me though, I would like to do something fresh and at the same time not go overboard.
I used to like copping the few grab bags of riffs I knew and turn songs inside and out to create.
I find myself going back and am going to practice more like that.
I guess anyone interested in songwriting wants to do something special, or at least be unique in some way.

I guess it's a matter of growing and maturity.

Laying that messy graffiti on the canvas and see where it can lead.

Thank you much all!

Matt