JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum TAXI

If you can't get out of the like of Broadjam (or similar) or even GarageBand (or similar) with having been kissed a couple times....Taxi is probably not a good investment

good point

thankfully you can be a Geek who has learned to make commercially viable music... and still get placements in film/tv ...

hee hee

I am new to this group. Just now coming over from CD baby. Like many others here I have been mulling over the $300 Taxi membership. The more I read the more I am convinced that $300 at Taxi will do more for my music than that Tascam field recorder I have been drooling over. I'll see you all at Road Rally next time around. I'll be the new guy.

Nice way to put it, Ronnie!

Welcome to JPF and good luck with TAXI.

Very cool Ronnie. Please hook up with me before the Rally & we'll arrange to meet in LA!

Mark,

Great thread you have started here. I'll try not to let my two cents worth turn into a buck and a half.

I have been writing and being published since the early 70's with a few indy cuts but no money makers YET. TAXI is just one of the "vehicles" I have used to get my material out there. You have to recognize that it is nothing more than a time and money saving filter for your songs to pass through. Getting permission to submit to various publishers, record label A&R reps, and individual artists is a time consuming and costly process when you start calculating all the hours, postage, long distance phone calls, etc. TAXI eliminates a huge chunk of that and allows you to focus time on spacific ears that you may want to zero in on.

I simply check their listings for ears that match up with what I have in the can and go from there. My first purchase of TAXI was a painful bite in my wallet but I have never regretted it.

BTW, I have never had a forward from TAXI but that has not diminished my personal sense of the value of their service.

Wayne

Seeing how many members here are with TAXI, some big organization, or were with some big somebody, I think that is a pretty good indication in itself where you will fare at TAXI without even spending the money.
I have done recordings, placed myself on sites to get rated, got opinions from both paid musicians and non-musicians where I live, and just about everywhere else I have at least some tunes where people liked that composition.
And I make certain that it is'nt out of chin stoking and that people will give honest remarks.
Look, with even the best intentions, some are going to get blackballed and it will not matter where that song could go.
Some don't usually stick it out on a site that long if the members don't come along to what they do.
That is why sites to where the claim is where they are pro and have been involved in hits should be sought out.
Yet with a lot of caution.
I have had everything from a written up record contract by email to someone here at one time trying to hustle me for a thousand dollar a month internet lessons.
But then there are other things like ratings systems, scoring high on the charts at more professional level sites, not least of which, getting placed on stations.
It definately ought to say something to a publisher.
It don't matter to me about the blackballing and the posing game for reputation stuff.
It is what that one publisher may see and not go with what one box agency says.

Until than, a good publishing company would serve you just as well.
Such as ASCAP.

But many of these places are already pre-determined and have members from other places, like TAXI does.
I don't mind there being members from other places, I would like a publisher to suit what I am out to do.
And I know I have the ability to.
This is far from the only place I have been to.

Matt,

I am not really understanding what you're trying to say. But I will let you know that ASCAP is not a publisher. I think reading a copy of John Braheny's The Craft and Business of Songwriting, might be a big help to you to get the fundamentals of how things work down. For the record, ASCAP is a Performance Rights Organization. In the US there are 3: BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. Publishers and Songwriters receive their income in part from these PRO's after airplay or public performance of songs in their catalog.

Brian

I've started to look into TAXI and found this thread. Very helpful. JPF is such a great resource.

Based on what I've read TAXI is about getting your music in front of industry folks who are looking for material. Basically it's about turning you from an unsolicted submission to a solicited submission - assuming your material is the right match and of highest quality. It's also about providng objective critiques to help you improve. Sounds good for folks with the money to invest and quality material, but no industry connections.

My question: Has TAXI helped anyone build connections, even if it didn't lead to a deal? I'm imagining perhaps you submit something good enough to get forwarded, it doesn't make the cut, but maybe it's good enough to develop a connection with the requester - an inside connection who might want to hear more of your work, or give you some advice on how to improve things for the next round.

I've read the success stories but I'm just calculating the odds of submitting that perfect song that gets a deal just via TAXI submission. Seems almost more valuable to gain industry connections.

..ant

Hey Folks, here's a paragraph I am running in the next newsletter:

People always seem to question whether or not TAXI members get deals, and if so, how many or how often. It's amazing that with just minimal research they could get the anwer to that and many more questions regarding TAXI. Click this link to see how effective TAXI is at helping its members get deals.
http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=success

You are quite correct about the differences in opportunity between the country and rock/pop markets. Whether you should join or not depends on your goals. If you don't write country, you will have a very difficult time getting songs cut for albums. if you examine the listings, the typical country add (posted mainly by A&R people or music publishers) is looking for cuts for artists for upcoming albums. The bar is set ultra high on these so the song has to per perfect. It is incredibly competitive. It amazes me how much talent country music writers have.

In the pop/rock listings, they are usually looking for bands and the adds tend to be posted by management companies looking to work with the next Fall Out Boy. The only real song opportunities are music libraries that place songs to TV and film projects. Read Michael's article this month. He talks about how to make great money by focusing on the TV/film/video market.

Brian,
If we had something like a "knowledge base" resource area, then we could simply give people a quick intro plus a link where they could learn more.

Of course a lot of this info can be Googled up and found on sites like Wikipedia.com, but it would be nice if we could eventually have our own "in-house" knowledge resource to cover the most common facts & info relating to the music industry.

Food for thought, but probably the services/tools listing and "Good Houskeeping Seal Of Approval" could cover many of these kinds of basic questions.

Michael

Hi! Forgive me if this sounds redundant but I saw Hummingbird's mssg and was prompted to reply. This is not promoting Sonicbids, just sharing a lesson I learned through 4 years of Sonicbids membership. And that is, you can save a ton of $$$ on memberships by doing some research. Between my affiliations with BMI, GRAMMY foundation, OASIS cd manufacture and sites like CD Baby my Sonicbids membership is virtually free. I got an entire year free when OASIS duplicated my first album - Discmakers also sponsors Sonicbids so they must have a similar program. I honestly don't remember which orgs give me free months, but my current membership doesn't expire until September 2009 and I haven't paid more than $30 in membership fees in 4 years.

Also, Sonicbids often prints promo codes like "free 3-months" in trade publications and a lot of the submissions have their own codes, like "submit to this gig and get 2 months free.". I've even received free months of membership just for attending various conferences and conventions. There is no limit to the amount of codes you can use. I have no idea if TAXI works in a similar fashion, but I seem to recall Discmakers advertising a TAXI membership package. I would not be suprised if my BMI or GRAMMY affiliation granted me a discounted TAXI membership.

I've read a lot of talk about TAXI and the learning curve ... Sonicbids, along with many other webs (like my personal favorite, Starpolish) has super-informative Forums and articles. Sonicbids members are also privy to free music lessons at BerkleeMusic.com - the Berklee College of Music's online courses. Starpolish is/was completely free but I think it may have shut down. Last time I checked it seemed out of date. Well I've gone on long enough, hope this helps! ~Nick

Wayne, you are right-on about saving time with TAXI. If an artist does not value themselves, nobody else will either. So many musicians, to my dismay, fail to value their time. I hear friends say things like "oh, I'd rather spend 2 weeks lining up that interview then $20 submitting online." Honestly, one hour of my time is worth a lot more than $20. And I pray that other songwriters share that sentiment.

Even worse is the comment, "oh I'd rather play that 4-hour roadhouse gig for $150 then not have any gig at all." As a Blues artist in Atlanta, I see this ALL THE TIME. It makes my job even harder. Those same folks are dumbfounded when I tell them I convinced a college, who has never heard of me, to pay my band over $1k to perform for 90 minutes - and did I mention that gig includes meals and lodging? So much of succeeding in Music depends on placing a value on your "goods or services" be they performing or songwriting, or both.

FYI Nick.. I responded to your question on the other post on the industry forum.

Nick!

Awesome to see you here.


~ Juliana

thanks, likewise!

I've joined, already submitted four songs. The folks are helpful, the listings are very easy to understand and the upload system is as easy as any I've seen. $300 is not going to break me, and $5 per song is like buying a coffee drink at Starbucks, just enough to stop me from submitting everything I've ever recorded

I'm there to learn, improve, work, and succeed.

All the Best,
Mike

Don't know if it's been mentioned again or not, but the critiques that they give on the listing that have a "Y" and not an "N" are also pretty valuable, and are no extra charge.

Midnite

Taxi Taxi every time,

They will not pitch your songs if they are not ready,
Well worth the fee, They linked my co writer and myself up to a film company. and we wrote some songs for them to slot into the Soundtrack, of a film , this led to other Pro work, and eventually to writing for certain solo acts.

I cant praise them enough, They can help on so many directions, if you are willing to improve and learn they are the people to work with.

They never pitch average material and Producers plus A and R People know the songs pitched by them will be well above the average.

I'm glad I found this thread- it's very interesting. I've been pondering whether or not to plunk down the $300.00 on membership - my husband and I would really like to fly to LA and go to the Road Rally in November.

I've seen a lot of opinions that go both ways on this- but it seems I've read more good than I have bad. I think it's something to seriously think about.

Amy,

The value of TAXI dramatically increases if you attend the Road Rally. It's the best music event from a learning and networking point of view of any that exist. And members and their guests get to go free. If you go out there this year, I'll probably be there. I missed the last 2 unfortunately because I was on the road (in Europe). I think I will be in the US this time around.

Brian

Hi gang..Have not posted in a long time. Been busy with a few projects, some music, my book needed some last minute updates before it goes to press. etc.and my own consulting company biz. and etc.

Im a screener at Taxi. They are the real deal.
No, I wont give you my sceener number
A few pointers if I may.

Study the listing and what it really is saying!
Today for example, a listing was asking for uptempo hits. And for a specific genre.
I got ballads! I got pop, not what they were looking for.. I got everything except what was being asked for.
I ask " whatzamatteryou?

I had some "Y" listings today also . Out of 70 some odd songs, the listing asked for uptempo, more than half were not what was asked for, instant pass.. The second the song plays and it is not uptempo, or whatever is being asked for, and it isnt, say, uptempo, it is a pass. Dont waste your bucks like that. If you do not have a song that fits the listing , then just dont pitch your song.

Look over the listing and make sure you understand it. Then pitch your song.
Another tip. Always , no matter what you think, include the lyric. Im amazed how many do not do this. You may know what the song is saying, but we sure dont manytimes. Also most of the companies want a lyric. It is very hard to to do an in depth critique without the lyric for referrence.

It seems to me that some writers just use the shotgun method and pitch no matter what the listing is asking for.
Again, not smart.
The listing is there for a reason. It is direct from the company that Taxi is doing the A&R for.

Someone here said, that up until now they have not been forwarded.
Many songs are very close. You are not hearing what I call your "unheard" competition.
Remember you are playing with the big dogs now. This is the competition against the top of the food chain.
Many many professional writers are using Taxi.

Those of you who have used my consulting services just might recognise my style when I critique songs.Oh oh.

Brian, if you make to the rally, I will be glad to shake your hand..
I will be doing a class and doing some critques.

Sorry I have not been here. I just do not have enough time to be everywhere.

Dude

http://songconsultant.com

Hey Dude,
It's always good to hear whats going on in the music industry. Of late I have been going thru the "Front Door" of a few major artists/producers from listings in a Tip Sheet. I called the record companies before I sent any songs to see if I could submit. Most but not all gave me the green light to submit material. A lot of artists have songs on myspace so I can listen befor sending anything. Writng a good song is STILL hard. Keep writing.

Dude,

Excellent advice from someone with an insider's perspective. Thanks much.

Good luck on your book, let us know when it's out. If I recall correctly, you were writing on wilderness and survival. I worked as a canoe guide in Quetico, Canada, and would love to read it.

All the Best,
Mike

Hi Dude,

I am not as yet a member of TAXI, but if the time comes I will take seriously what counsel you have offered. Thanks for weighing in here and best endeavors with your new book.

Best,
Lynn

Thankyou ...Ray and Lynn...

Mike , this book is not the outdoor book. This book is called " The Songwriters Survival Guide To Success"
I pull out and reveal every trick I used over my career to get songs in front of those who make the decisions. It is very different from other books about "pitching songs" . It is the only book written for songwriters from a music publishers point of view. And I only deal with the "song pitch" No BS about contracts, ASCSAP,BMI, etc. Thats all been done before.
I only deal with the song, Some of the prep, and point out the direction for the writer to build a career.
Everything in the book is true.These are all methods that really work and still work today. Most of them you , the collective you have never heard of.
As a very active publisher I would be willing to bet that I pitched more sonbgs in a week than many writers do in year. But how are you doing it? Im very excited about the book. My publisher is mean to me, and keeps pushing me to change a few things, everytime I think Im done some little thing comes up.

Mike, you may have been confused, because, Im a writer for "Wilderness Way " magazine, Im also a field editor, the mag is about primitve skills and self reliance.
Im preparing a book about the "skills" and working on a DVD series. I recall that you told me in the past that you had been a canoe guide. In the future I may have a few questions for you. I know zip about canoes. White water rafting , Im in. Done a ton of that.

See ya in a minute...Dude.

http;//songconsultant.com

two songs Dale and I have written together Even the Candles Cried and Long Tall Steeples were just forwarded through Taxi to a listing in Nashville...fingers crossed...ya neva know and 'least we're tryin'...keep ya'll posted...one of them has a publisher so it's getting worked from both ends...i'm lucky to have Dale as a co-writer...and you guys as friends...Dude, i forwarded this to her...sometimes we writers who are not living in the major markets wonder what the hell is worth it and what's a waste of time and money, ya know...i've met Michael Laskow a couple times and with your recent post it feels like another good spot for us to have pitches going...thx...mj

Moker,

Even if nothing happens with the forward, it means you are definitely locking in on the right track.. that is valuable info you should use to keep writing and morphing your stuff towards what is currently in commercial demand.

Brian

HIDee Brother Mark/Lyle!

Back when I had more Luck & Loot, I joined TAXI. Then found I rarely HAD the $5-per-Song-to-Submit...but DID get one "Sent On" thru them...but Zero Contract. So..I joined for Year Two...(It's $200 to renew)...hardly sent in a song, due to meager spare cash.
Year 3, I was out in L.A. for JPF's first Awards Show I'd attended (Their Second-Ever, I believe) & Brian'd timed it so when-finished, it was JUST at the Start of TAXI's Road Rally. I attended it "As a Guest" of a Producer-Buddy in Tampa I'd Co-Written With...&, before leaving, RE-Joined TAXI a Third Year..just because the RALLY was SO Fantastic/& The People-Involved are totally Great.

Alas...I STILL never seem to get a $5 ahead...& my Membership's lapsed again. BUT, it WILL save you Lots of Time/Effort at Getting Your Songs to a SERIOUS Audience of "Buyers". (I've also placed a Song with a Movie Editor, on my own, who requested we pen 'em a Credit Roll Song, too. But Neither of Those made "The Final Cut"...politics, perhaps.) The latter only cost a few Emails & Postage & another Evening of Recording. The Former..while it's momentarily A Chunk, CAN return a LOT IF ya have enough Loot to Spare to keep feeding-in Potential Cuts.

And...$300 is Lots LESS than an Air Trip to L.A...Hotels...Restaurants..& many a trek to get to know the Right People. &..ya never know...it might lead to gettin' all that stuff Covered, should ya send in The Right Song.

Life's an Expensive Gamble. IF I had some spare Loot...I'd both Re-Join TAXI...AND head West for the Next Road Rally. They're Good Folks/Worth The Loot. Just one Ol' Guy's Opinion, of course.

Good Luck, Amigo!
Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

Brian, thanks much for the comment....i spend a fair amount of time trying to listen to not only what is getting airplay but what pluggers and other writers i know of are getting action, holds, and upcoming cuts with, i feel like that's my best chance to write on the front edge of market trends...thanks again...moker

I received advertisements from TAXI where different musicians are shown that benefited from their services.
One included a 45 year old man that is not into the band thing but wanted to kick something out of his home.
I want to at the most do that.

My purpose was to create some kind of musical portfolio to show a perspective to a potential publisher.
Admittingly, I have tried different styles and ldea's I have not tried, it is off prose, yet I like doing stuff like that.
What I did in a more formative time was more of a harder edged, punk type of influence, but I want to expand and I for the life of me can not learn about theory.
Although over the last half century, there have been musicians that have known as much or less and have sored to great heights.

How much is individual music portfolios figured into what the heads at TAXI judge in recordings?

I have seen in the last 4 years on the net no preponderence of who is liked more, judging from comments and listens between beginners, rank amateurs, and professionals, regardless of given skill or prose.

Is copping a style and joining contests looked at more?
Some go through a process of years to gain an opinion and to grab a opinion from professionals and non-musicians alike.
Some are experimenting more than they are out for a particuliaur style.

Does conforming and belonging to a genre considered more than the method of slogging it out with given musical portfolios, and do the recordings have to have the highest sound standards?

I know there are professional critics that get paid to determine a professional sounding recording.
Yet there are garage acts or bands that had little to record on that revolutionized the music scene.
So if slogging it out and garnishing listenership's does not matter, than that may have an effect on indie musicians and put people in the same rut of not having a choice in what to listen to or for the musician to do musically as it did before.

Maybe I am over analyzing it.
But I have slogged what I have done out enough to be at least a rank amateur.
Anyone can use borrowed samples and assimilate themselves.
I have done everything by hand and with little to record on and believe that I know what I am better or worse at.
Now at least I can multi track with Audacity.
Is my 4 years going to account for anything, and would there be the publisher to take a serious look at it?
Because there are many like me that might join that have their own experience, but not in the more standard way.

These are the type of questions I have before I would join an organization like TAXI.

There is far more a chance of a publisher getting struck by lighting than discovering the next Billy Joel, and it appears to be more a matter of agents getting as much money as they can out of musicians that wish to climb out of their local venues.

Most of the acts that "revolutionized" something STILL had major label backing which included promotion and distribution. I haven't see any acts become famous and make all their money and get all their sustained attention via the net so far. Even if they do something that catches mass attention on YouTube or something, usually they end up signing with a major label to keep that going.

As for TAXI, they can only pitch what their clients (the libraries, publishers, labels, music supervisors) are asking for. It's not their job to change the desires and interests of the industry, but to give them what they want. So if you want to use their service, it's definitely about writing and creating what THEY want.. not what YOU want.

If that's not your thing, cool. You can still do it the old fashion way with years of work and finding a way to get noticed. If it works, then a label or someone else with resources might come around and help you break through. Or you might be the first act to TRULY break through and sustain success outside the system.

For me, the better approach is to find 5000 fans yourself and make a living by getting them to give you $20 dollars a year for your creative output. If you can't generate 5000 real fans, the labels aren't likely going to be able to make you famous or help you earn more money than you would on your own.

Brian

I agree, makes a lot of sense!

For example, $20/year x 1000 fans is already $20,000. Nice part-time living, but best keep your day job. But at 5000 fans, that would be $100,000 per year, so that's the start of building a potentially full-time sustainable business.

This could be just one CD sale per fan, per year plus some live shows and maybe some video or other merch sales, etc. Obvioulsy it could also include download sales from digital distribution. If you can include publishing to the equation, you could probably double or triple your sales revenues via various commercial licensing deals, either on your own or through services like Taxi and PumpAudio, etc. That could bring your revenues up into the $200k "ball park" per year. Again, this is assuming a solid fan base of 5,000 people with a mix of CD, concert, merchandise and licensing sales.

Is it any wonder that major labels may want to invest in your "act" once you get to that level? Of course not! If you get that far on your own and if they feel your act has further growth potential, they are likely to make an offer to sign you. The key is to make sure it will be a fair deal for yourself, not just for the next year or two, but for the next 5 - 10 years and maybe beyond!

Michael

I could get 5,000 people to hear me.
Not spend a dollar on it.
I would'nt expect anyone to buy me. Especially when there are so many giving away downloads.
I don't want to get famous. I would like to do maybe some ad jingles or pieces in a project, like a film, and then maybe kick out my own cd.

Most professionals are lucky if they can sell 3 cd's on the net.
There may be places to go if someone wants to do their own little thing with it and at the most modest financially.
Yet there is so much competition for that and often the companies seem to want a professional resume more.

Maybe it's a matter of breaking down and findng that publisher, which can cost much money.

I was thinking of going to nightclubs on karoake nights and passing out cd's.
That just is not for me though.
The one time I sung karaoke I had to get pretty loaded first (but to my advantage, so were the patrons).

I would like to do something a bit more planned out.

Becoming a signed songwriter is a blessing and a curse.
Getting the attention of a publisher and keeping his attention is not so easy.
You are not hearing your "unheard" competition!
In most cases you have to be in town all the time. You have to be able to see that publisher on a regular basis.
If he asks you for a a certain kind of song for a specific artist can you respond in less than 2 weeks? with a slap me around the room song? That fits the criteria. Can you do that 6 times in a row over 6 months? If you can you might have a shot at being a signed writer.
That is only one area. Getting along with the publisher is another one. They may like your songs and yet do not want to do biz with you.
Do you make a good general impression? It does count most of the time.
Being really pro helps a lot.
When I was at MCA and other companies I was getting 2 to 3 hundred songs a week.
You can get lost very fast in just the sheer numbers of songs.
How do you know the songs are what the publisher is looking for.
Showing a body of work is not really the answer, it may help but the publisher has no idea how long it took you to come up with that body of work and if it is so good why dont you have a cut yet?
Well we know part of the anwer to that, but it doesnt tell the whole story.
I signed writers because of their potential.
I signed writers who already had many cuts.
The success rate in both cases was about the same.
Sometimes the potential never bloomed. Sometimes the the writer who had had many cuts , number one songs, never got another cut, just didnt have the songs. Some writers just have so many songs in them. Some know that it takes work .
I think the word "creative" is really just another word meaning "work" after the first blush of creativity spills out of the writer.

Right now, well this past week there was an act that Taxi was looking for songs and just what they wanted was very defined. The act has a following. The listing said something about not being a typical Nashville act and spelled out the kind of song they were looking for. The casting of songs for this act was so off the listing as to be unbelievable.
I have said this for years and Brian just said it. It is not about what you WANT them to record , it is about what THEY want to record. The closer you can come to what is being asked for for any act , Taxi aside but including Taxi , the better your chances are at getting a cut.Sometimes an exception can work. Dont count on being the exception.
Most songs are okay, to just less than that , too be kind.
We can pick apart any song, any hit etc.
It is easy to be critical.
It is a commericial game, if you want to play that game then you have to know how to play the game.
Too be a pro boxer, a pro baseball player a lawyer, a teacher, an artist who paints, what do they all have in common? They go to a place to learn the "trade".
They go where the action is happening.
For a songwriter that means Nashville, New York, L.A. You may not like that.
But it takes a certain committment.
Exceptions do happen, but not many.
Second best is going to those places at least 4 times a year. Then you have tip sheets. And you have an outfit like Taxi.
I do not want to get into a position where Im defending Taxi or promoting Taxi, thats not my job.
But Taxi is a tool that is legit and in the long run pretty cheap. I firmly believe they are far better than any "tip" sheet.
Unless you have access to info right out of the record company. And guess what? Call the record company and ask them who is looking and who the producer is. Learn how to do that, and you will be ahead of 99% of the other songwriters.

Hope that helps at least one person...This Too long, sorry.

Dude..

http://www.songconsultant.com

No, I like all the information I can get.

I guess it could not just be a matter of slapping down a 3 song demo and expect to get automatically placed.
I would like to do something without going the publishing route because I just want to do my own small thing. And honestly, I don't have it in me to conduct my creative synapses around having to do a certain recording to someone's snap.Yet I see advantages of going the route of BMI or TAXI.
I thought of publishing myself, but that costs hundreds upon thousands of dollars.

I don't question the validity in TAXI.
Except that many are small timers just kicking something out of their home with their day jobs.
And even after all the labor and time is spent trying to find a publisher, even with the most amiable musician, as you pointed to, they will not have all the time to go through all that and may not even like it when they hear it, or the musicians personality.

The musician to publisher ratio is clearly outmatched.
Must be about 10,000 to 1.

Anyways, appreciate the insights.

Matt...With all due respect you have a lot of wrong info based on what you just posted.

Perhaps a few insights might help you with your problem of not really undertanding the whole picture.I hope it helps in a positive manner.

After I left MCA I started my own publishing company on unemployent checks. Within one year I was making 6 figures. I had maybe 20 songs in my so called little catalog. I went up against the monster publishing companies. They had millions sometimes less but way big bucks, I had a few 100 bucks.I got songs cut with Ray Charles, Johnny Mathis, Stephanie Mills,etc.Then ended up repping ABBA owned publishing co in the U.S. .These acts were still very viable at that time.

You can publish yourself for a few bucks. But that does not really make you a publisher, only in name. You have to know how to do it , and collect your money . It isnt all automatic. But there is no money to collect if you are not selling anything. hmmm...

BMI is not a publisher.They are a performing rights org. If you happen to get any airplay it is how you get paid.

You always respond to someone elses "snap" even if it is your own. You cannot do a gig, or sell your own CDs without other people. Doing the biz, Is that "snap"? You want to do jingles and film...Wow that is a world of "SNAP" and right now...Way big "snap".I have done plenty of both
Lets address the "small timers" your words, who have other jobs. Guess what , where do you think most of those songwriters come from? Every artist and writer Ive known had a real job,before they were able to make a living in the biz..
I was working with an act as they had a song racing up the charts and were finishing up painting a house, thats what they did until they hit. that song went number one. and they never looked back
I will relate something here . When I went to work for Dawnbreaker music , a Seals And Crofts owned company at the time, they paid me a whopping 100 bucks a week . that was 1972. In 72 that was no money. I was married, had 3 kids owned my own home etc. I took the gig.
Daytime I had a little office and saw writers and pitched songs all over the place, did demos etc.Conducted biz .
At night I went to work on the docks and loaded freight for Yellow Truck lines. At the time almost no one knew I was doing this, cuz I was a bigshot publisher, yeah right!
I would get home at 3 am, sleep and then be in the office at 9am, and do it all over again.
I did that for a year, until I started getting cuts and they paid me a lot more money.

So "little" people all have jobs , I dont see what is wrong with that. And it is not just about finding a publisher. Taxi for instance pitches directly to the act, most of the time. Right to the producer. The publishing is "open", so you could end up with a cut and still have your publishing.
Sometimes the listing is for a "publisher" but the other pitches far outway that situation.

This part of the biz is all on "spec", publishers do not get paid until the CD sells, gets airplay, it happens or not etc....Im not going to go into it all here.

The other side of the coin is doing your own "small thing." There is nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with writing and playing songs just for your friends or small groups. If that is what one wishes to do, then you do not need a Taxi or this forum because none of it applies to you.

Sometimes writers would come into my office and tell me he didnt write "commercial songs" I would stand up and say " this meeting is over". I need commercial songs. All it really means is that more peeps( a million say) like your song over 10 peeeps in a club.
In the so called "mainstream" it is a different competition. Many writers shy away from it because you are putting your ass on the line in the bigtime world of the music biz, and everyone will know if you fail.
Some just cannot do it. So they chose another route.
Failing? thats okay because you tried. Without trying you will never know.
I have two clients right now who are older men. One is 65 and one is 79. They are both excellent writers. They were afraid to try for years, and gave every excuse for not doing so. They are now both on the way to a major cuts. The cool thing about being a writer or a publisher is no cares how old you are.

I signed writers songs in the past who were all just guys trying to get a recording , they knew no one. Some of them ended up with great careers.

Using the term "musician" to "publisher" ratio", what ever number you want to punch in , means what? I do not follow what you are getting at, as it makes no sense in the world of music publishing, or getting a song recorded.

I kind of rambled a bit here but I hope it makes some sensr to you. And helps a bit.

Dude

http://www.songconsultant.com

Dude:

Point well taken.

Good your efforts paid off.

I grew up musically during the start of the alternative boom where there have been musicians that excelled with little money and even less to record on.
You obviously have really been involved in doing this to know as much.
There are small timers that have got there with a lot of effort and fate obviously.
I can never be on the net enough to do that.
I did not even think I would be here this much and put up upwards of 30 mp3's through the internet.

I just have this funny feeling that the internet has gone more to a conglomeracy that what started out with the days of Beck with something more independent and a coming together.
Even more then when I first came on.

Of all people, Kenny Loggins and other mainstream pop acts wrote this book for TAXI.
Now the major companies that have turned more to the net. Illegal downloading definately did not help matters, but also the medium turning more exclusively toward the net.
This has made it much harder fore those that may not have big aspirations yet would like to take it beyond just a hobby.

I would be interested in TAXI to keep up on what is happening, yet even at their membership costs, as reasonable as that may be for a company like that, that is still a lot of money to a lot of people.
Practically a year of health insurance to most.

But no, I have not kept up on the companies like you pointed out in a post.
I don't have the type of material ready for that yet.
I figure what gets mailed to them gets thrown in a trash can.

But it could'nt hurt to keep up on what they are doing.
I would like to read some of TAXI's publications and keep up on them without being a full fledged member.
If there is a better way that don't cost much that would be great to check out.

You certainly encouraged me to want to keep up on it more.

You can sign up and get on TAXI's email list for free. I suggest doing that to see what it's all about.

Brian

Matt , glad you made some sense out of my post.

I have a question? How do you relate that Loggins wrote the book for Taxi?
Loggins came from Lggins and Messina, Jim Messina came out of the group Bufflao Springfield, who had hits. Logins was a known enity as a player etc. They had an "in" with the record companies and had major management.

Anyway as Brian just posted you can check out Taxi.

You seem like a smart guy with some savvy, good luck

Dude

http://www.songconsultant.com

Thanks Brian, I'll check that out!

Dude: Any little good that has come my way have been blessed with those much smarter!
Thanks much! Look forward to seeing more of your contributions here.

I'm surprised more people don't know that Taxi also has a forum. I won't link it out of respect, cause I've never posted with JPF. I've been a Taxi member for 2 years. Absolutely the best stepping out of my comfort zone ever. I've had about 50 forwards so far. One decent sized placement on an ABC FAMILY show, but I expect a ton more. Not because I'm a dreamer but because I've researched forward rates enough to know the odds, and I'm doing just fine. Hummingbird has become a pretty good friend of mine, too.

I joined Taxi because I've got a couple decades worth of tunes, and I really had to figure where I fit in. I joined their forum to meet people, & find more co-writers and it's been awesome. I went to my first Rally last year, and it was mind-blowing.

If you're serious about placing songs, or getting them cut, join their forum for awhile and see if people think your tunes'll make the cut. You don't havta spend the dough just to figure out if your songs have a chance, the forum members will be pretty clear about evaluating your tunes, per Taxi's standards. There's always a leap of faith, but you CAN minimize your RI$K.

Google Taxi forum, it'll show up. It's a nice place, most of the time. Every once in a while there are entertaining flare ups. I'm Ok with those. It's art, & people are passionate. The only thing I would caution about Taxi or their forum, is leaving your cynicism at the door.

I hope we see some of you around,

Steve

Steve,

Michael Laskow the founder of TAXI is one of my closest friends, so it's not really an issue to mention their forum. And they're community partners of ours as well. I will still say that this forum on JPF is still better and more active. (Ask Laskow, he'll tell you the same). So don't be afraid to come and hang out here. Plus we cover far more areas than the TAXI forum covers.

Brian

Based on the recommendations and discussion here, I joined Taxi last week and submitted some songs. I appreciate the information in JPF so much ...

Tom

Hello Brian,

It was a bit presumptuous of me to even enter the thread. I certainly should have noticed the Taxi icons on top of the CD Baby and BMI logos.

I just love Taxi and the people I've met. More than anything else, I love the changes in my music career as a result of going on-line. I feel connected in a way that was never possible just playing in bands, which was my only meager source of income for 35 years. Wohoo it's changing fast.

Laskow has also become a good friend of mine, and I feel indebted to him for the way he has allowed me to rant and rave about all things musical. I'd love to meet more people on JPF too, but there's only so many hours in the day right now.

What I care about more deeply than anything, is helping to convince the world that music is worth paying money for, just to have it around. Technology is changing so fast, but the concept of sharing music and making our lives better, is greater than all those changes. So I am a cheerleader for the value in making and sharing music.

And I know how big a deal JPF is to the world of songwriting, and sharing music. So thank you for everything y'all do.

Steve

Steve,

Well that's why it's important to also be part of JPF. TAXI is awesome and I love what they do, but what they don't do is get involved in political issues and that's where changes that devalue music often happen. Making sure that proper and fair license fees are paid, making sure that radio stays open to the public interest and not the corporate interest and to punish the blatant corruption that allowed payola to run rampant for decades and so on is part of what we focus on. I'll be heading to Washington DC early next year to speak with lawmakers on a variety of issues. For me to be effective, we have to have active involvement from our community. It's critical to demonstrate what our members really think and want.

Brian