JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum What has worked for you?

Steven,
I forgot one important fact about your resentment of that i365 radio station up in Canada, scarfing up those free tracks, could you send them over to my page on there?

Anyone that has an i365 station can have all the music I got, because they actually pay royalties...lol. Worse things could happen to you...lol


Billy Darnell

AP, I posted the following on the "Pirate Radio" thread:

I went into research mode and unfortunately, you seem to have some facts confused.

First of all, the Part 15 regulations on unlicensed low power transmitters are referring to devices such as cordless phones, baby monitors, garage door openers, etc. this is not micro-broadcasting.

There are carrier current stations, also known as campus radio stations. In these, the signal is transmitted along a standard electrical wire, will not pass through a transformer, and only have about a 200 foot range. These can ONLY be operated by educational institutions.

The other low-powered stations MUST be licensed by the FCC, and I have yet to find anything saying that they do not have to pay royalties to the PROs.

BTW, my degree is in Broadcast Production Technology and I have over twenty years under my belt working in radio and TV.

Hi Kevin,

Interesting perspective, and believe me I don't know enough about it to begin to even contemplate it. I try not to get involved in debating things I have absolutely not a clue about..lol

In the other thread on this subject, Brian referred to them as small broadcasting stations with a limited capacity to broadcast within a neighborhood for special interest type groups. Brian is a pretty sharp guy with a pretty vast amount of knowledge about the music and radio industry so I have to believe they exist through out the country even if in limited numbers. Whether or not they are FCC regulated, or are required to pay royalties, I am not sure.

Now those types of stations I am familiar with, and they function mostly on the Am side of the radio dial. The last time I tried finding a ball game on Am radio, I was amazed at the number of Spanish speaking stations that were broadcasting. There were more of those than English speaking stations.

Most College radio station's I know broadcast on the FM side of the airwaves, and I believe they do report their play lists, and pay performance royalties, but to be truthful I am no expert on that either. Maybe you, or someone else could enlighten us about that.

Bottom line here is, they may be a market that some people would want to look at to get airplay within their communities to create a local interest, or a national interest for that fact, when they find they are having difficulty getting big time radio play for whatever reason. You got to get a fire started somewhere , even if it's a small fire, and that's what the thread is about.

Speaking of which, with 20 years of Radio and Tv experience under your belt, have you got any insider tips that might help our songwriting friends here in the group get a little bit more exposure? We sure would like to hear them.

Billy Darnell

Hi Billy,

I'm not saying that low power or micro broadcast stations don't exist. They do, and they are licensed and regulated by the FCC.

As far as college stations go, those that are actually broadcast and not carrier current stations have to report and pay royalties just like any other licensed radio station. I do not know about royalties for carrier current stations.

As far as my 20 years of experience goes, 17 years of that was working in television for the Trinity Broadcasting Network. (I justify my time there by telling myself that it was the forerunner to Comedy Central, but that's another story.) Prior to that , I worked at several different radio stations, and in those all of those stations, there was one main rule: Stick to the play list!!!

I have been away from the broadcast game for 6 years now. I have had other opportunities in the field, but my last job pretty much soured me on the prospect.

I hear ya kevin, I think being told to stick to the play list would have soured me too. I worked in retail as a manager for quite a while until I realized that they didn't want a manager, they wanted a facilitator. Took all the fun and pride out of being there. When I was considered a manager, I had input, a certain amount of creativity was allowed, and I could take pride in my abilities and my efforts. Being a facilitator took all the fun out of it.

Thanks for clarifying the college radio thing. I appreciated it.

This is just a very small thing and I know it is obvious, but I sent copy of her cd to the newspaper and suggested that they do a story about her. Well, son of a gun, they called and are going to do a feature on her with photos.

Tom

Hi Tom,

There ya go. Congrats to your good fortune, and for having the courage to just ask. Though it may seem obvious to some , many others would just assume the answer would be "No thank you" and never try.

The lesson here is never be afraid to ask for fear of hearing the word "No", even though you might think there's no way they will be willing to do it, especially when it comes to the media.

If there is something you think has a chance of succeeding don't be afraid to look foolish, every great success started with many failures along the way. Put your idea out there, and let others help you to either nurture it, or dismiss it. Sometimes you have to do something , even if it's wrong.

Every salesman knows that the real selling doesn't start until you hear the word "No", Most managers learn the lesson real quickly that it's easier to do something than it is to try and get permission, so they go ahead and do it, and if it turns out to be a good thing, they are a hero, and if not, they can apologize later. Great inventors have known for ages, that each failure brought them that much closer to getting it right, and we are all inventing the future of our music as we go.

Those that find the courage to be innovative in their thought process will lead the way into the next century of music.

Hi Billy,

I don't usually respond to `Steven', but for you...

My real issue with that Live365 station was the fact that they had my metadata all screwed up. Their links for me and my tracks, pointed to a site that I am unable to join as an artist, so my music isn't even available there. They have since corrected their data to just now point to my email address. So, based on that, how can I be assured that they will properly report any streams to me or my PRO??

lol,,, sorry Steve, I'll try and get the name right from now on.

I guess you can't and there are no guarantees that even the stations that have the proper information will take the time to report it, or write it down properly.

Many artists and copyright holders I know often question if there plays are even being reported at all. At least this problem was obvious and because of that, you can work through it.

In a perfect world that would never happen, I won't insult your intelligence by finishing that statement, but I guess we have to take the good , with the bad, and hope for the best sometimes.

Thanks again for your input.

Hi Guys:

Sorry to be "late for the waltz" but I've been following this dialogue for several days. Interesting! Billy, regarding your original question, "What has worked...?" and my answer is: "Very little!" Every now and then a glimmer of hope appears... somebody says something encouraging or complimentary about a song or album but it's a solid cinch that I'm not gonna lead the parade into New York City, Nashville or L.A. before I croak. At least there is hope and writing/recording songs is an enjoyable thing for an old geezer. Most of all, I keep reminding myself that "All it Takes is One!"

It's strange how the music biz is changing... and how technology and the net are impacting all of us... in both good and not so good ways. Just keeping up with all the new start-ups and constant stream of failures is a full-time job. I don't think we have seen the complete answer to our prayers as far a getting our songs scooped up by the buying public or artists looking for covers. Maybe tomorrow, huh?

Best,

Dave

http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice

http://DaveRice.BandCamp.com

Well done Tom ! See, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Add the article to your bio, and you're off from the starting blocks.

PopTodd, I haven't had to retrieve my meagre earnings form IAC just yet ( all of $15 ) but don't they just put it in your Paypal account if you wish ? Seems the easiest.

Ok, another bright idea which I forgot about. My/our latest single has a travellers' theme, so upon it's release, I sent out an EPK to the regional offices of the 6 largest advertising agencies globally. About 150 individual emails. I made sure to include the phrase " If you have recieved this email in error, please type UNSUBCRIBE in the reply, and you will be removed from the subsciption list. Equinox Entertainment does not support the use of unsolicited email "

Surprisingly, only 1 advertising dude replied with UNSUBSCIBE.

So, now all these advertising guys, know of, or have some knowledge of, a single, usable for travel advertising. I'll expect a call in a years' time if ever. LOL

I like Scott and John's attitide to their song "Opening Day" . They plugged it to the right folks, and it ends up getting played in a stadium to 50k people. Magic !

it's all about figuring out the angles. I was never good at geometry, but I think it's the warped perspective which will win in the end.

cheers, niteshift

Hi Dave!

Thanks for chiming in, we sure do appreciate it.

Would it make you feel better to know you are not alone???

We all know that feeling of frustration your feeling, some more than others, but we all know it. We momentarily hit that wall, and we wonder, "Is this it? Is this as far as I go?", and then something happens and we move up to that next level, and surprise ourselves sometimes in the process.

Like I said earlier I have been fortunate to have experienced a small degree of success, (small being the key word there...lol.)
but I have spent an awful lot of time, and a little cash to learn what I know that has taken me there.

That is why I always stress that you have to be in it for the long haul, be content to take small steps, and take time to appreciate the little accomplishments, they are few and far between, but they will keep you moving forward.

I get emails everyday telling me how this one, and that one, have the secret to success with my music on the internet, how to sell a million singles on itunes, how to market successfully on the internet, How to build a website that sells, blah,blah.blah...I have read them all. Truth is they don't know anything more about it than I do, no one has all the answers, I don't care what they tell you, or promise you , they don't have them. Why?? Because they don't exist yet. In order for all of us to take the next step things have to happen that only time can provide.

Technology has to improve, the old world order has to collapse, people have to adjust to a new way, and get a better understand where this whole thing is going. All these things take time.

The major stumbling blocks right now for all songwriters and artists are sales, distribution, and education. It's a funny thing, but I think eventually, the need will be so great that technology will fill the void. Always seems to work out that way, I have no reason to believe this all will be any different in the end.

Until then , keep writing and perfecting your craft, so that when we finally obtain the technology and the know how, your ready to roll.

Oh , and keep participating in forums like these because I also believe that many of the answers that will eventually come to light will be because a bunch of people got together, pooled their accumulative resources and knowledge, and created a new gateway to the next level, right here in groups like this.

Hang in there, pack your lunch, and good luck.

Hi Niteshift,

Thanks for clearing up that Iac question.

Well at least you did something, that's a lot better than sitting back and waiting for someone to come knocking at the door for something they don't know you have.

Real important when your testing the waters folks, and emailing without permission to always allow the participants the option to "opt out". Not only is it the courteous, and professional way to approach it, but it's also the law.

Good thought on that single and how to approach the possibilities of marketing it nite. let me know if you get any bites.

Let me tell you what I like about niteshift, he's a mover, a shaker, he isn't afraid to think, and then act. He is always contemplating his next move, always thinking about what might work, works every angle, and if an angle doesn't exist, he creates one.

There's no doubt in my mind that eventually he will find a great degree of success, because he isn't going to stop turning over rocks till he finds what he is looking for. That is what it takes to find success in the music world of today.

Don't just think about it, and then find reasons to dismiss it, try it, if it doesn't work the good news is you just eliminated one more failure, and got one more step closer to succeeding.

Here's an interesting little tidbit I just came across to see how your latest tracks are doing. I don't think these folks track foreign stations, but it's kind of interesting to see if your songs are doing anything at all.

http://www.streamserf.com/

They apparently have decide to become the ears of the music community, and they will tell you if they have heard your music being played, and where they heard it at.

Just a neat little tool to evaluate your success with I guess.

I know it ain't much but it's more than we are getting...lol.

Besides i think I owe niteshift a tool..lol

Some years back I saw a band playing in an outdoor outlet mall in the City of Lake Elsinore. What caught my eye was the 40' long Budweiser banner hanging over the stage.

During a break I asked the band leader about the banner? I'm not sure about how the connection to a corporate sponsor was initiated, but he told me that every time they perform a live gig, Budweiser agreed to pay them a total of $150 if they sent in a photo documenting the performance and the location.

Budweiser provided the banner and limited payment to a maximum of four times per month. The leader said that the money basically offset transportations costs. I was impressed that they were able to co-brand with a major corporation in that way!

Definitely a road worth taking a trip down AP. Corporate sponsors and music have been teaming up a lot lately, beer companies, Cracker Barrel, food chains of all types have been teaming with artists more and more over the past year.

I don't have a guess how one would go about seeking that corporate sponsorship, but it's definitely worth looking into especially if you have a band.

Another one ?

Someone was talking about monetizing your own web space / blog , .....so I did. Put a song player on it, which links back to IAC paid streams, and got three advertisers....

Google Adsense
Technorati Media http://technorati.com/
MOG http://mog.com/

The good thing about the last two, is that they're blog collators, ( especially MOG ) and send out your posts via RSS to ( supposodly ) millions of listeners a month.

It's all free, so we'll see how it stacks up in a few months time. You can see it here...

http://www.niteshiftmusic.blogspot.com/ Oops ! , silly me, did it again.......

Now, I'm off to invent some interesting comment. Anyone got an interesting story to tell ?

cheers, niteshift

PS - can someone give me a click ? Current earnings = $0.00 LOL

Niteshift, good idea.

We tried something along the same lines. I sent a copy of Jutice's cd along with a cover letter to several local advertising agencies. We also sent a proposal to the largest auto dealer here for them to use Jusice in an advertising campaign (give away her cd's for test drives and have a mini concert at the dealership). No bites.

Tom

Yeah, that's the hard thing Tom. The punters themselves aren't interested. It's their advertising agencies which call the shots. Ad guys are ideas guys. Don't worry, they'll more likely file it than bin it. Then, when they're all scratching their heads, and looking for a new angle, out it'll pop. I'd follow up with a polite email. It never hurts. They need a prod once in awhile, and all they can say is no.

cheers, niteshift

PS - I'm not really into blogs, but the MOG network emailed me today and I've been "syndicated". That means any stories put out will go into their general RSS feeds, and be thrown around their affiliates. Also, all 400 or so affiliates are back linked, so it drives traffic to your site also. How about "Gimmie Justice !, The Trials and Tribulations of a Tween Recording Artist " ? I don't see anyone in that market, so it may be worth a shot. http://mog.com/mmn/faq You can set your blog up anywhere. I just use blogspot.com It's free and also accepts any advertising you place on it.

PS - also translated it into Japanese. http://www.niteshiftmusicjp.blogspot.com/ They're real crazy about baseball and music, so thought it might be another market.

It probably reads " Remove lid, screw gently, while inserting finger in bottom " or something similar, but it may get a laugh. You'll need Asian languages installed on your browser if you want to read it.

cheers, niteshift

Some jaded feedback, but in my experiences it's been true enough.

Having at least one female in the band, preferably somewhat attractive, does wonders for securing more gigs and getting more guys out to shows. It undoubtedly helps for click-thrus based on band photos as well.

It's like that Brooks and Dunn song, "Gotta put a girl in it"

-Ethan

i entered a contest once and won 'best song'... of course, i didn't have a CD done to turn it into sales, but i got a lot of new friends on myspace i think there are a lot of little local contests and bigger contests that can be a good way to expose people to your music if you're just starting out.

"That is why I always stress that you have to be in it for the long haul, be content to take small steps, and take time to appreciate the little accomplishments, they are few and far between, but they will keep you moving forward."

......EXACTLY! Keep going and something good will always happen by default.

Tom,
Ever heard of stores like "zumies"?..."claires"?...maybe they would carry Justices'cd on consignment....OR....look into what it would take to get a table or kiosk near those places in malls....OR...Do like the band "guster" and just ask tweens to listen via personal cd player.....guster virtually started their career that way.

Its all about the seemingly little things.Have a cd?,playing out?...go to other shows and get to know the sound people/gift a cd,they may play it between sets with other bands(has worked for me in the past).

Advertise!!!...large,well done posters two weeks prior to a gig,well placed in the venue to be played can do wonders.Small "handbills" to drop everywhere...other shows/the mall,bus seats and on all the tables during your performance.With EVERY bit of info on them like websites/next shows/radio/t.v. ect.

Im leaving alot out here but you see where Im going with it.

These all come down to networking and following through.

http://www.jonathancoulton.com/

Your opinion of what this man does musically matters not. He is a shining example of Success in the internet age.His plan went against all I had held sacred like......."HOW WILL I MAKE A LIVING IF THEY DONT PAY FOR MY SONGS?".....In today's environment you can't be stingy and survive.

The new biz model seems to be all about creative commons/viral marketing and "pay what you want".Well.....thats my two bits and here are some examples:


https://www.noisetrade.com/#


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/arts/music/09pare.html


http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20081008/0723372489.shtml


Mac.

For those looking to AdSense et al for making a few bucks, I recommend you read this:

http://chrisguillebeau.com/3x5/overnight-success/

I have to agree with the author that AdSense tends to put people off and promote the wrong things on your website. AdSense put lots of ads on my blog that promoted stuff I wouldn't want to be associated with. Plus, once people click on an ad they're off your site and on to the next - I'd rather nudge them towards my own store instead!

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the article. I was wondering when it was written. So far I've had exactly the opposite experience. I'm quite amazed at how targeted the advertising is. I only get adds for music related services, recording studios, online libraries, resources for musicians etc , Taxi features prominantly also.

I'm just wondering if the name and meta tags on your title page are a bit confusing to the google bots, or the algorithms have been updated. This is not a plug for Adsense. I've taken on three different advertisers, so I'll get back here, and report how they compare over the next few months.

cheers, niteshift

The article was published on April 15 (2009), so it's just a few weeks old.

I ran AdSense on my blog for a couple of months when I launched it last year. Ads were clearly based on the words that appeared on my pages (a love song would have dating site ads, etc). I also saw ads for Taxi, musician resources... those were interesting for me (though I couldn't click on them myself), but how many of those are of interest to my listeners? All in all, I felt my website would be better without AdSense on it.

Interesting stuff and great debates, Thank you all for the ideas and the input.

The girl in the band thing brought back unpleasant nightmares, but that's the trade off some of us have to make I guess. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against a girl in the band that totes her own equipment, and brings something special to the group with her musical talents, but in my own humble opinion, if you have to add a half naked piece of flesh playing a tambourine to create a draw, I think I'd pass. I would get a lot more pleasure knowing people were showing up for the music and not the side show.

Jim the adsense thing would appear to be one of those cases of one man's garbage is another man's gold, but your concern of people being pulled away from your web site, especially to what would appear to be possible competitors, was an aspect, not having used it, I wasn't aware of, and one that I think many would want to contemplate when considering adding it to their site.

Mac, some interesting reading there, thanks for the input.

To follow up on my post here. The article on Justice came out today. It was better than we hoped - a full page with multiple photos and a lead and photo on page one.

One tiny step....

Tom

Hi Tom,

Congrats! That's what it's all about Tom, little steps.

Glad to hear it came out well, enjoy the moment and use it as motivation to take the next small step.

Yey Tom !

That's great mate. Copy and preserve, and put it into the bio.

I sometimes think it's about fulling the bucket with water, one drop at a time. But sooner or later, it's gotta get full.

cheers, niteshift