JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Industry Message Forum Gratuitous Self Promotion - Does it work ?

Hey All,

I'm doing some ads through Adwords at the moment, but I also came across a banner maker. Yeah, yeah, I know I'm kinda slow with high tech, but I thought I'd try it.

The signature now has a whopping great ad at the bottom. See ? ( down below ) Now, when I'm paying for advertising, that's all well and good. The ads just show up on relevant sites. When you're at a "working mans site", I reckon they're a bit much.

So should you self promote ? And how much ?

All thoughts welcome.

cheers, niteshift

PS - mods, I will remove it after the discussion. Promise.

Nothing wrong with self promotion, but Adwords can be very expensive. The click/conversion ratio is a gamble.

Yes, agree Ben.

I got a $75 freebie, so am checking it out.

Essentially, when you're dealing with a $0.99 product, I'm after marketing, rather than CTR. The thing has spat out 2 million line ads thus far, for a CTR of about 0.08 %. You only pay for clicks, so the more it spits out, the better the marketing.

I've checked the CTR agiainst the site stats, and surprisingly, it has a carry on effect of about 50%. i.e. 50% more traffic, than directed by Adwords. Hmm... strange, but working.

Yes, you're right, in that it must be used sparingly, and the "outside" ads shut off. Automatic vs manual, gives a huge differnence in results. I'm a newb, so am watching closely, and we'll see if it traslates to actual sales.

cheers, niteshift

When I say expensive, I'm only speaking from an AdSense user. For example, I use AdSense on my blogs. I sometimes get a click that pays $1.50 to me. I know that that's around 1/4 of what Google charges the Adwords client. So that click actually costs the Adwords client $6.00. I can only guess that that $6.00 click converted into a sale or it would have paid much less.

Of course Google never reveals their reason or strategy for what they do. It's hard to predict.

Yep, I reckon that's damn crazy. But...... it's not crazy if you're selling a 1000k product.

When you're selling a $0.99 product, it only makes sense to pay a cent or two, per click through.

I'm absolutly green, but even given a frebie, I'll work it to the max. Certain trends are developing, and they become quite obvious. At a moments glance, right now, I see it as beneficial, in that it simply gets people interesed. Whether that interest holds, is another thing.

I used to write jingles for the ad market. Had a good friend who was an exec, and used to put work my way. I'd just do it, well paid, and all, and left that up to them.

Advertising, like all skills, is now in the hands of the amateur. And this amateur is quietly learning.

cheers, niteshift

Science has tried to prove that advertising works for decades, but failed.

Still everybody knows it does, I think basically because it leaves no room for other stuff in our public space. You know what the head is full of... But it can work both ways, if your product sucks, it can brand you a 'troll' for a long time, I think.

I would call it risky business to come out hard with a song like 'Linda Lou' that is a bit niche stylewise. But if you are set in that genre, and want to continue doing just that, it can work fine IMO Just should definitely plan your campaigns, though, as you want to avoid unintended effects (so better aim at the 'target', whatever that is for you).

The ad business seem to change somewhat, though.. due to ages of wear and tear on our patience, more and more people are willing to pay for NOT having adds and commercials :-) It's the only time we are happy to pay for not getting a product..

Yep, gotta agree there Magne.

I like the JPF space, because it is simple and functional. Where the reply actually is the reply. Put up a myspace or a facebook link, and I probably won't go there. I can't be bothered wading through the flashy rubbish, it gives me a headache.

As for "Linda Lou", I've been specific in only targeting certain market groups. Each single has it's own target, which should reduce the troll effect I hope.

I put this up for discussion rather than anything else, as an example of crass advertising. As you say, we get it every day, and JPF is a nice relief from the bombardment.

Will remove it after today, if anyone else would like to comment. There doesn't seem to be a lot of comment. Does that mean most folks are immune to it ? Hmmmm......

cheers, niteshift

my bad nite, I unintendently used a term associated with forums like these ('troll'). Poor choice of words.

I meant more in general, that using ads that are not relevant for the ones you reach can also brand you negative (with a&r, producers, publishers ect.). So if you reach too many with a specific ad, it might backlash, if the information is not universal enough.. perhaps much like in a lyric? As the jazz crowd doesn't listen much to country and vice versa.

I didn't mean you were spamming here at all, you have a perfectly legitimate and interesting subject to discuss here.

Good points, and well noted Magne,

Funny thing is, that with the Adwords capaign, 11% of traffic has come from Morocco, a further 4% from India. Line dancing Arabs perhaps ?

Also, traffic from 24hrhiphop.com, ... hip hop country dudes ?

As in music, I think with advertising, we have no idea what suits whom. Just take it as it comes.

cheers, niteshift

Heya Shift,

Personally, I don't think there's anything annoying about the banner. It doesn't interrupt my reading of your posts or give me that "man, don't click on Shift's post until he stops doing that" feeling.

I can't speak to whether or not it's profitable, but chances are, once my, ahem, small independent film "SHOEBOX" is finished, we might try something like this ourselves.

Best

Midnite

Hey Midnite,

I'm actually in 2 minds about this. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you need to.

In relation to the ads that are going out through Adwords ( 320k so far today, and appropriatly placed ) , I don't see, or feel the need to do such a thing.

Just having a little ponder about the "look at me, look at me" culture, and taking some quiet notes.

If everyone did the same thing, I'd probably switch off from JPF. T'is a double bladed sword. How much is too much ?

I'll be happy to give your film a good plug, for example, knowing what you've been through, than click on a banner ad.

Tis a strange life we live, but someone's gotta do it.

Thanks for your input Bob,

cheers, niteshift

I think this banner will be horribly ineffective. Why? Because the lines that stand out the most are "Made with MyBannerMaker.com" and "Hosted by ImageShack.us" Had I encountered this banner in the wild, I would not have noticed it was actually an advert for a new single.

My advice:
- Use bold letters for the main message!
- Loose those "Made with" and "Hosted by" lines (hint: if you don't , you are basically paying for ads that promote those site in lieu of your own product)
- White text on busy background does not a good banner make! Keep it simple: big black letters on a white background, with maybe a thumbnail of the cover art on the side.

(My personal experience with paid web advertising thus far has been abysmal, btw. My "best" campaign resulted in a single $1.50, at a cost of $100 for the ads)

When I looked at this again, I wasn't sure if it was "Image Shack" or "Images Hack"...Just sayin'....

Midnite

[quote=Jim Offerman]...Because the lines that stand out the most are "Made with MyBannerMaker.com" and "Hosted by ImageShack.us" Had I encountered this banner in the wild, I would not have noticed it was actually an advert for a new single...

Hey Jim,

Yeah, cheap is cheap. ie. free. I think Googles ads come out a lot better. Bold, as you say, and a simple 'Click here' button.

Wow, $1.50 from a $100 investnemt ? I won't see any sales figures for a month, so we'll see how we go. In light of your stats, in that case I'm glad it's a freebie promo and not my money LOL. I wonder how much of the $75 will translate. It doesn't look promising.

I'll be sure to report back with the results. Thanks.

cheers, niteshift

Hey Midnite,

Yep, "hack" would certainly fit,

cheers, niteshift

It's off topic but nite shift, if you'd like a banner that doesnt have the "made with mybannermaker.com and hosted by imageshack.us"
then hollar at me I'll fix one up for you. www.myspace.com/naomisuemontgomery check out the banner at the top on that one and on www.myspace.com/nashvilleapril those are the kind of banners I make.

Google launched their Interest Based Advertising a few months ago for Adwords and AdSense. It's optional. Instead of placing the ads on sites based on key words, they use cookies to compare the users browsing habits and place ads on sites that may interest them.

The site displaying the ads must have a "Privacy Policy" that explains why G is leaving a cookie. G has a sample "Privacy Policy" on their site that you can cut and paste. Anyone can opt out by going to the G web site. They don't use sensitive sites like porn, banks, or most login sites.

Shameless self promotion work? Well, of course it does! It's far better than just assuming word of mouth will reach the masses. Nothing wrong with it at all. If someone reads the ad, they know something they didn't before hand. If they click the link or go to the site, they've got something to do, if they like it, they'll pass it on, what could be better than that?

Look, Naomi Sue just sent you to April Johns page, to look at her banner, will you check out her whole page? You just might...and if so, you may add her to something, or tell someone about either the banners or April. Not bad for one little "look at this and see what I can do" post. Now two people get looked at, instead of just one. If you were to add April to your own myspace, you have your friends list now possibly curious about her. Hmm. doesn't get better than that!

this guy has close to 100 million views on Youtube and he did it for free by being talented, brave, and outrageous and he also blew up the music industry in a bit over four minutes with one song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Gs4xGw1Eg&feature=channel_page

I say give it a try. It is worth the cost --- LOL. It will be interesting if you do get some results.

Tom

Hey Tom,

Yeah, almost fnished the Adwords campaign. It was a $75 dollar freebie, so cheap at half the cost.

Essentially it does work, if you know how to get the setup right. I'm essentially using it to create a brand web presence. It's spat out about 4 million line ads so far. About 2,000 click throughs. Plus another 1,000 from the drag effect. The bottom line is sales. They'll take a month, to see the results, so I'll come back and start another thread... "Is Adwords a suitable spend for a 99 cent product ? " Stay tuned.....

cheers, niteshift