JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Musician Message Forum Need help with barre chords

Okay...all of you seasoned guitar players. I embarked on this guitar journey only 4 months ago, so I need lots of help. Could you all please try to harken back to when you were learning and give me some tips on how I can get my fingers to play barre chords?

It seems that when I barre the strings....that isn't the hard part.....what is difficult is the reaching with my other fingers to higher frets without letting my index finger raise up....well in general, barre chords have been really hard for me to learn.

And...if there are some folks on here that took on a guitat playing challenge later in life and they actually succeeded....I would so love to hear from you. I need all of the encouragement I can get today...thanks so much..all.

Jan

Barre chords are way over-rated! OK, the 1st position "F" chord (on the first 4 frets) is really important, but the rest of them are not needed! Ha, how's that for an opposing view.

Here's why. Open chords can be played in all the common keys and then there is a capo for other keys.

Here's my advice. Keep trying the barre chords that the instructor wants you to learn. But if you hand starts hurting, then do something else instead. Doing lots of barre chords at 4 months seems a little early to me. There is so, so much that can be done with the open, "cowboy" chords.

Kevin

Congratulations for getting past the first three frets and graduating to barre chords. That's an accomplishment.

There is a thread on the guitar forum that may help.

This may sound weird, but one exercise that I did early on was to learn how to do the "Spock Vulcan salute" with my chord hand. That is to learn how to make a V by spreading out your four fingers, two on each side without letting any fingers stray or fall out of line. I can do it with either hand. After you get used to that, do it one finger at a time. The point is to make each finger individual without the others following.

Hold your hand up with the thumb in your palm, like you're reciting an oath. Move your pinkie away from the other fingers without the other three fingers moving, then do the same with the ring finger and pinkie together, then do it again with the middle finger, ring finger, and pinkie.

Thanks for that view point Kevin. It is good to hear what others think about what he is teaching me. He actually started teaching me barre chords off and on, starting at about 4 weeks into it.

The song I am trying to learn is a James Taylor tune....Something In The Way She Moves....I have a very difficult time connecting with that song anyhow, but that song....James Taylor actually recorded it capoed on the 3rd fret. So that is what he's having me do....but then there are still barre chords used in it.

I understand the use of a capo fairly well and have been using one to change keys for about a month or so now.

My instructor is a college prof. who teaches jazz and classical guitar at the university. But he can play absolutely everything. He certainly isn't trying to make me a jazz or classical guitar player. But he is teaching me alot of theory, well just enough so that I know how a chord is built...to help me with chord progressions. I don't have anything to compare his teaching with, but I'm under the impression that he wants me to learn this particular song, no matter how long it may take me, because of the elements in the song and how the learning of them could really help me in the long run....any thoughts on this particular song at all? I listen to it on youtube, but feel no connection to it...can't even hum it on my own after listening many times. While I can write my own simple progressions to songs I've written and can go back to them time and again....and connect with those self written lyrics.

I appreciate any and all help on this whole challenge.

Jan

You make sure all strings are pressed down nicely, and it hurts...and you practice it regularly until your hands get used to doing it. After a while, your hands will stretch more easily, they'll remember the positions they're supposed to go in, and it doesn't hurt so much.

Barre chords are most difficult on a steel stringed acoustic guitar...they feel much easier (and more useful) on an electric guitar.

You'll probably find you don't use barre chord so much when playing acoustic. There are a lot of other ways to play most chords higher up the neck using only a few fingers along with some open strings.

Good luck--I know it hurts! But a little pain never hurt anyone.

Thanks Ben....I just tried that and I can see where that is really a good stretching exercise. No one ever mentioned anything like that. I will do that whenever I can. I think it could help. I appreciate that tip.

Jan

Something In The Way She Moves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqDV77r8244

Oh, that's quite a fine song. Seems a little advanced, but you've picked a teacher and you gotta go with the flow. Since you are a songwriter, heavy on theory is a good thing.

Every student needs different things. If you can hang out with this instructor, then you might learn a lot of good things that you can apply to your own stuff. Of course, if he picks tunes that you don't like to practice -- then that could be bad.

Keep plugging. At the end of the first year you will be ready to stay with the current instructor, pick another one or go off on your own.

Kevin

Thanks Mark....for letting me know that it gets better. But I don't mind the pain...that isn't IT....I just want to be able to do it...period.

Yeah...it is a steel string acoustic.

I appreciate all that you've said....thanks.

Jan

Thanks again Kevin, for the encouragement. What I always say is...better late than never....it applies here as well.

Thanks so much.

Jan

For a rogue finger, a real good way to tame it is to isolate your left hand (if you are a righty, the right hand just on your lap or side not near the strings where there is a temptation to strum). Move the left back and forth from a chord you find easy then onto the problem chord (where the finger is causing problem). Do this very slowly at first, no right hand playing at all, just left chording ....then make that change faster and faster. Each chord change, your entire focus is on the flying finger, and at what specific point during the exchange it begins to fly. Then focus on that moment-bring it down, over and over. Once you have it, bring in the right hand - just easy strumming as you move those two chords back and forth. Once that feels comfortable, bring in some other chords-again always ending with the one where the finger was initially flying. Hope that helps a bit..

Paul
www.ryantunes.com

I just know that barre chords got a whole lot easier for me when I bought a better guitar!

I'm a beginner as well, and have been picking things up from online video tutorials, guitar for dummies books and trying out chords for myself following the tabulature on online pages and in sheet music.

I was having a hell of a time with barre chords -- just. could. not. do. them. I was using my father-in-law's old college guitar.

Folks on another site told me that the difference between a laminated-wood guitar (like my father-in-law's old inexpensive one) and a solid wood handle was vast. And they told me to check the "action" -- the distance of the strings from the frets, which should be very close and even all the way down the strings. The old guitar I was using had a lopsided action and the strings were not close in -- which is why I was having trouble.

I spent the money on a low-end Taylor and the difference in "feel" was incredible. I suddenly was able to play several barre chords that had escaped me.

Still working on my finger muscles, but it's nice to make a little progress.

Hi Janice

The regular F chord was enough to make me throw the guitar down and give up more than a few times. The way I got passed it and Barre chords was by learning on a guitar with very HIGH action.

The strings were so far from the fret board nobody could play it lol.. Kept at it until finally I got a new guitar and there after
not only nailed the barre chords but proceeded to crush the neck

If by some chance you have an old acoustic around with high action and hard to play use that everyday for a week. That will solve your problem.
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If not then here's some very useful tips.....

1- Go to the first fret and play a basic E Major Chord

Only be sure to start the chord with second finger NOT the first then followed by you third finger & pinky.

Now - slide that chord up slowly to the second fret keeping the exact same hand position.

Then - lower your first finger across the first fret to make the barre. Seems you've been struggling with barring then trying to land the other three fingers. You may have better luck this way..

It's much easier to miss some or all of the 3 finger notes but you can't miss the barre. The problem is it will sound muted and muffled until you can press it firmly enough.
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2- If none of these works play bass instead lol.,.. No actually go the other way with it. Put the cappo high on the guitar say the 7th fret. Then play your barre chord WAy up there.

The Cappo will lower your action and make it way easler to press and the guitar neck will be smaller up high, again a bit easier.

Each day lower the cappo by one fret, this is like training wheels.
This will help I promise. The first suggestion is the Rocky way of doing things lol... The other two probably smarter

And of course keep at it. While I love open chords much more Barre chords are important... they give off POWER that nothing else can. Learn some WHO songs and see what I mean

All the best...

Paul....thanks so much for the suggestion of that exercise. I will try it. I am seeing that it all takes alot of patience and time and building up of strength in my fingers. I have never stretched my fingers into those positions before...and am trying to get them to work that way....today already it seems some better than yesterday....but, I only have 5 more days until I have to play this song for my guitar teacher..and more than anything, I hate to show up unprepared.

Your help has been so appreciated. I knew I could count on all of you.

Jan

Jan-not sure if the exercise will get you ready in time for the teacher. Hopefully so. But by isolating that left hand and just repeating the exchange over and over, it should really cut down a ton of time for that learning curve. Anyway good luck, and hope you nail it in record time..

Paul
www.ryantunes.com

Hi Jan,

The barre chord depends a lot on leverage. Where you keep your left elbow (if you're playing right-handed) can give you advantage, allowing you to hold the strings down using leverage more than grip. Keep your elbow closer to your body, rather than "flying" it out. Also, check where you place your thumb. Placing it under your index, possibly even back a bit toward your middle finger, is usually good. You'll find sweet spots for both that make the barre a little easier. On second thought, nothing makes the barre easier, it just makes your fingers happier.

All the Best,
Mike

Z.Mulls....

Thanks so much for responding to my cry of anguish. It is all appreciated. And...it is always good to know that I am not alone in it. It's good to know that others have taken on the challenge...past the age of 10 or 12(that is most of what I see coming out the studio doors where I take my lessons) Intimidating....YES. But they probably look at me and think..."Wow...that's so cooool...she's coming back for advanced training after all these years!" HA....if they only knew....Anyhow, I'll bet I keep a better notebook than them...LOL

Unfortunately, I can't use the excuse of having a crappy guitar. My teacher...who has seen them all, says that mine is the best guitar that he's ever seen a beginner have...you know it's not great....but I paid around 650.00 for it and he says it has an outstanding sound(that's when HE takes it and plays it..HA) Oh....and he says I'm great at tuning it. I told him..."Okay then....I may become a guitar tuner and notebook keeper" The playing part....well, that remains a mystery.

But I do so appreciate all of the different tips that I am getting and am trying them out...(other than...buying a different guitar...believe me, it's not this guitar's fault) I just have to get my fingers stronger and more flexible...I think that's the biggest issue.

Thanks again....so much, for taking the time. I would be so interested in knowing anything else you may have to offer r.e. your beginners journey....like...have you played out anywhere yet or played in a jam with some other musicians. If I did that at this point....I would probably die of flop sweat....but maybe in time...

Jan

Mike,

I am going to try all of that. I so appreciate all of the suggestions you took the time to give me. They all make sense. In the end...like everything else, it just takes time. I am just hoping that I HAVE that....or at least....enough of it.

Hope you are doing okay, Mike....thanks for being a helpful friend. It has never gone unnoticed.

Jan

Hey Jan, you gotta give it a little time. Try playing your open "E" chord with out your index finger. Just use your social, ring and pinkie fingers to form the chord. That exercise may help you to start forming a full bar chord using your index finger as the Bar. I have never seen it spelled barre before...Have fun!

Thanks Mike.....all of your suggestions will be tried and I do so appreciate them. It looks like my teacher is expecting me to get this faster than most say is even possible this early into it. I will keep working at this with the strong encouragement you all have taken the time to give me. Thanks so much.

jan

One thing I know about learning how to play the guitar is this. Sometimes you may feel like you hit a "plateau". You may think that you're not learning. You're just doing repetitive exercises and not getting any better. That's not true. It's all in the mind. The more you play, the more dextrous you get. The more you practice, the cleaner you sound.

Learning guitar isn't learning new songs. You can learn 100 songs and play them all crappy. Learning is where you are right now. The basics. Sounds like you're going to get through this phase because you're committed, but you'll keep learning as long as you play the guitar.

Hey Janice,

I read this post with great interest. I've been playing guitar for three years now. I noticed that all gentlemen have posted on this and thought it would be beneficial to hear from another female. I can play barre chords as an exercise type thing where I'm switching from one barre to another on a four count etc, but I can't play them in a song where I have to switch. The problem for me is that I have small hands with short fingers. I can't reach and maintain the tension. I also have moderate arthritis in my hands, especially in my thumb joint. This greatly effects my grip strength.

Another issue for me is that I've only memorized a couple of barre shapes but I learned a lot of open chords, so now I play up and down the fret board without having to barre. I try to work on them everyday though. I just spend about 5 minutes at the beginning and end of each practice session playing them. Mike D's advice to keep your elbow close to your body has helped me. I think it's good your guitar teacher is having you practice them. If you learn them early in your playing, you will have more options in your aresnal, very important for songwriting.

Good luck and keep practicing!

I hate, hate, hate barre chords! And why on Earth is your teacher having you play James Taylor...he's not the easiest guitar player to try to play! I haven't heard much about doing barre chords on an acoustic...I usually see them used on an electric. I recently started taking guitar lessons on an electric (Hamer...has a skinnier neck) and "drop D tuning" let's me play literally any chord up and down the neck with just my index finger and two strings! I know that's cheating, but man, it sure is easier! I'll get to the barre chords after I get used to moving up and down the neck. I have attempted them on an electric, and they're easier than trying to do them on an acoustic.

Whoever mentioned the Taylor guitar, I was told those have easier action. They're expensive though.

I'm gonna take a slightly different tack here.
I used to teach kids,10 and up. Mom and dad go out and spend $50 on a crappy used guitar and think they are doing the kid a favor. Some of em were so bad, I took them and put on some light guage electric strings, just so they could get past the struggle. Yea, they sound like crap, but what's worse, sounding like crap or feeling like crap. Usually 6 months or so did the trick, and they got where I wanted them to be, without having to introduce short cuts. Just my particular method, take it with a grain of salt.
Good Luck

Janice,

I forgot to add that I play a steel string acoustic guitar too. I don't own an electric guitar.

I have never been able to do barre chords well because of a childhood injury. A couple of years ago two guitarists told me they never do barre chords, they just use capos. I never understood how they go get around absolutely no barre chords so maybe they said "don't use many barre chords."

Janice...

Getting advice on anything from a group is going to result in various answers. Some will be very helpful, some not as much. I am a pretty darned good guitarist, but I am a horrible teacher of the instrument. What has worked successfully for one person may not for another person.

I have very, very small hands for a man. I can comfortably get my hands in a womens size Medium glove. My wife's fingers are half an inch longer than mine. And she has a normal-sized hand for a lady. Yet, I can make a stretch of 5 frets with my left hand. That is because I intentionally worked on (practiced) chords that were very physically difficult for me to make. I would often spend 2 hours every other day doing nothing but practicing those chords..absolutely nothing else. I can't tell you how badly my hands and fingers ached from all that stretching!

The quality of the guitar makes a huge difference. Also, as someone stated previously, a steel string acoustic is noticeably more difficult to manipulate for the chords than an electric guitar is. The srings are closer to the fingerboard, the fingerboard, most often, is more rounded which adds to the ease of making chords. Also, in most cases, the neck itself is not as thick or fat. And those things do make a noticeable difference.

Yes, it is very possible to learn on an acoustic guitar. Thousands of people have done it, many quite successfully. None-the-less, it is much easier on a decent electric guitar.

Somebody previously mentioned learning to make the open "E" chord without using the index finger. I fully agree. That worked quite well for me. By doing so, you are employing the same finger utilization as you use with the barre chords.

I noticed several folks commenting that they use barre chords sparingly. I use them constantly. A capo can accomplish giving you the desired chord by moving it up and down the neck. However, by doing so, you get a different tone and dynamics of what you hear. An open "A" chord on the 2nd fret, with the 1st and 5th strings open, sounds much different than an "A" chord barred on the 5th, 6th and 7th frets.

The second chord of the song "Something" is a major 7th chord. Other than "A", "C" and "F",you cannot reasonably make a major 7th chord with an open fingering.

Everyone has a different approach and idea. I kind of chuckled when I read Ben's "Vulcan Salute" comment. Not at all because I thought it was silly, rather, I still cannot do that! I can do the original separation of 2 fingers either side of the "V". But I cannot move either outer finger from that position without dragging the adjoining finger with it! I was told to practice that when I first started playing in the late 50s. Of course it wasn't called that back then. I couldn't do it then...can't do it now!

Good luck! After all that, I know I haven't helped any. But those are the thoughts that came to mind.

Alan

Hey Alan,
I respectfully disagree with what you said about fingering the maj7. For giggles I just pulled out my "Mel Bay Encyclopedia Of Chords", and low and behold there were many. When you get into inversions, the same chord can have more than one name, depending on how it's used, whether there is emphasis on the root note, etc. Example, I like using a Bmin7 configuration against a Dmaj, and it sounds great. My old keyboard player taught me that, and I just ran with it. Your comments were valid in this case, but I prefer to think a little more outside the box.
Not trying to confuse the whole situation, but as I said above, just a different tack.

Hey Alan, thanks for the "Vulcan Salute" endorsement (I think). I thought that I made up that exercise, but to know that you used it in the 50's makes me feel good.

I just started trying to learn to play guitar, I can easily do the vulcan salute and seperate finger spread from that position, but to try to make my fingers move from chord to chord on the neck of my guitar is next to impossible. That takes 5-10 seconds, I'm hoping that will come with practice, and doesn't mean my hand is retarded.

It will come with practice, you are right. I think sometimes we are a bit misleading, when we say, "It takes lots of hard work". That doesn't even begin to say it. When I was first learning, I remember spending days, not hours, at a time. I guess I had nothing better to do, and as an 8-9 year old my stamina was up to the challenge. Today, that kind of thing would kill me.
Hang in there.

Hey, Everyone...I can't even begin to tell you all how very much your coming to my rescue has meant. You've all given me so many things to try. I realize that it is going to take time, stamina and strength. I hope I have all three....LOL.

I am trying so many of your tips and just can't express how very much I appreciate the fact that I can always count on all of you when I am stumped. There are some fine, fine musicians on this site....and more than that....some wonderful friends.

Love you all.....and thank you so very much for giving me your time and talent.

Jan

Jan,

I suggest the book "Zen Guitar" by Philip Toshio Sudo for you, and other guitar strugglers http://www.maui.net/~zen_gtr/shop.html .

It is a really encouraging read, and put focus on many other aspects of playing guitar, than just the immediate technical ones.

Any instrument is just a means to create music, not an end in itself. And from reading "Zen Guitar", you'll be able to appreciate many other aspects of playing guitar, some of which you maybe already master, without recognizing it.

Thanks so much Mags. I will definitely order that book. I get a great deal of enjoyment from playing my guitar, that's for sure...sort of like when I expressed myself as a child through my fingers on the keyboard....not WELL....but in my own way. There is alot to be said for that. It is very calming to me to just pick up my guitar and just compose something on the spot....I so love that part of it. My fingers don't always cooperate on all the technical stuff, but I actually like what I hear when I'm not thinking so much about that, but am just creating sounds that touch me.....does that make sense?

Thanks, Mags

Jan

Makes perfect sense! ... and you don't know how lucky you are. Most people find it exceedingly difficult to compose anything at all (I'm not that good at it). The fact that you are picking out things that you like to hear bodes very well for a promising guitar career. Looking forward to hearing some your playing and composed songs down the road.

Kevin