JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Do you primarily write for yourself or your audience?

Myself, I think I write about 70% for the audience and 30% for me.

Tom

When I first wrote with some knowledge in me, with Buddy Holcombe, starting in 1976, we wrote for us. Our writing times were entertainment for us around my upright. If we liked what we started, we worked on it. If we didn't for any reason, we didn't.

That was a 30 year collaboration of writing songs that we both loved writing, playing and singing. (One reason we did not have marketable songs), although we and others thought of them as good in several ways. No regrets! For the times spent was all based in FUN! All of our endeavors, no matter the business outcome, was done in FUN of those times as well.

I can't imagine what it would have been like to write for others, that we may not have liked as much, and still not have cuts! For what?

Same with the band's songs. if we wrote for the audience, what audience would that be? There are all ages now that come out to hear bands. So, just by natural ways, we wrote or brought our songs to the band that we wrote for each one of us. Iggy had his personal songs, Roon had his. Marnie and Doc had theirs! I had mine. We all enjoyed listening to them over and over,,,,I hope anyway!!!!). It seemed like we all did.

FUN in music is what floats my boat.

Buddy and I were told over and over that we should listen to what is on the radio and write similar songs, as we have talent for song-crafting. We choose to do our own music, (Daubert and Holcombe Music). And glad and proud of it, and the times we had, and for Buddy's friendship and the band's.

No regrets. Great freakin times you can maybe only imagine.

100% We wrote for us. We just hoped some others would like it too. We knew it was not good business wise.

Our songs are never about us. They are about the relationships and the emotional connections we build with our audiences. having said that, there should be a huge part of ourselves in every song. Our heart mind spirit and guts should be in each line and note.

But you never let the facts get in the way of a good story and while you might even be talking about something else, you should have your own feelings, emotions and attitudes mixed in with the facts.

People want to hear something they can relate their own experiences to. The most sincere compliment a writer can get is someone coming up and saying "You wrote that for me" or "That is my life."

If you write reality, chances are most people are experiencing the same thing. Write it right and they will want to "purchase that" with their time, money and tell others about it.

Do that over and over again, and you have a viable recording. Do it millions of times and you have a hit.

MAB

That's a tough one, Tom!

As long as we have a brain, we are kinda detached from what we call the 'real world', so I'm really not sure..

My body kinda goes with what my brain comes up with, listens to it, and then decide how to take it further..

I feel like an audience for my own ideas! The ideas are like cultural products ("the muse" comes with'em, right?), and my writing is then how I respond/or want to respond to that.

Hmm, is that the idiot's answer?

When I write for Jean or Beth or whomever gives us a challenge over on the Challenge Forum, or write on a whim outside of that, I write for the song fairy because I'm assuming it's she who whispers in my ears/mind/heart and I just put it down on paper. If it's great I can't take credit and if it isn't, I can say I had nothing to do with it and feel like I'm telling the truth. I tell you it's an out of body experience and a complete rush! I don't feel like I write the songs but rather receive them

Up till four years ago, I composed for myself (or put music to Cal DiFalco's lyrics). Now, 100% of the time it's for a specific project, some oddball listing, or a request, etc...

Still... I try to stay faithful to myself - and my impeccable taste.

John .

It is usually a bit of both. Most of the songs I write are for my own entertainment. However you have to have one eye on what audiences want. Different rules apply to cowrites and commercial stuff like jingles etc.

I confess to being a complete commercial music whore.......

I always try and write what will sell.....I am not always successful in that obviously-but that is my orientation and inner soul as such.......in fact my even claiming to have a soul after 5 years in Nashville is itself blasphemous


surely headed for the fires of Hell

one of the fallen ones

yours truly

Tom

Tricky stuff Tom

You can write what ever you feel like or for yourself as some put it and your audience FINDS you...
Or you try to write for the masses in one popular genre or another... Or or "in general" so to speak.

The big key is knowing that if your a songwriter & NOT an artists or band that those areas are very very limited commercially.

While writing and completing stuff for me is soooooo difficult and time consuming it is also has a very easy natural side at the same time as well. Why? Because when I write for myself I AM writing for an audience.
They are one in the same 80% of the time for me.. I do not know how to write complicated and I do not know how to not write catchy, or to be obscure. But I could fill a book with what "I don't know"

That is why I do not berate and appreciate a side of writers/artist like a Taylor Swift
She writes exactly what she wants 100% and the perfect age audience wants it 100%. So there is nothing contrived about it at all.. And I know for a FACT that if she sat next to me in the studio she would love my material and ideas instantly. I wouldn't have to try.

How do I know this for a fact? Because we have a kid here who does exactly what Taylor does, Only she is much younger and a superior singer.. And I often see & get her reactions when I show here a song or song idea...

The trick for me is doing that with a wide range of listeners making each one find the song/style they like and making them believe that is the ONLY way I write & play...

The 20% for myself is probably Instrumental music, as nobody in the main stream cares for it at all anymore....Unless it's club or rave.. Being able to play,perform, create & produce music on instruments is what being a musicians all about...

And the more "musician" you incorporate into "songwriting" the deeper and better you grow and become.. Not richer $ though

Tom ... I don't sit down and write a song...it usually starts when I am fooling around with chord progressions or twinkling of strings...and if a tune appears I will scat it or whistle it or baby-language it until a good tune sort of forms...then the lyrics will come line at a time. Usually nothing is formed in the first draft of the fist verse. So, I don't write for myself or an audience initially. Nothing in mind until the song is formed...so, I dunno...I guess it's 50/50 in my case.

Stan

I don't write for the audience--as I've said before (somewhere), my writing is a compulsion, not a talent--but I do want them to understand and appreciate it, so I do keep them in mind. The purpose of music, in my opinion, is communication, so I have to be sure I'm communicating. The audience are also my one and only judge whether something's "good." If they request it, I'll play it again, and if they don't, I will probably forget it. But I wrote it; it got out.

Joe

This was harder to answer than I thought. I usually write a song with a goal in mind. A lot of my liturgical songs are written to fulfill a need in worship. I don't usually sit down and say I want to "express" myself. Even the few secular songs I write usually have some sort of parameter involved. I feel that I have expressed myself creatively through the song writing process itself and that is usually where it ends. Essentially I want to create a song that others may want to listen and relate to, whether it is religious or secular. So to that extent, I guess I write for others. But on the other hand, I write to my own satisfaction in regard to standards, so in that way I write for myself.

I don't usually care too much for purely cathartic writing from others or myself, however at some point, I think we all subconsciously include some of our own opinions, attitudes and feelings in our creations. How could we not?

Perhaps the one area that I truly write for myself is instrumental music. I do compose that to please myself. I hope others will like it of course, but I don't keep the audience in mind at all when I write instrumental music. I write it just for the pleasure of exploring melodies and harmonies.

HIYa Mz Jeanie B! Great Question.. I started reading a few of the Other's Answers/quit abruptly so I'd be totally-honest with my answer.

Somewhere along the line I learned to forget about Both Parameters. I write for The Ages.

I'd LIKE to leave at least ONE "Classic" Song BEHIND that somehow ENDURES..& clues-in the Generations-Ahead..that we HERE were a Fun Buncha Folks..who weren't "Totally Out of It"..and were, perhaps, worth Studying-Closer.

The Ancient Egyptians, for-instance, left Art..& Stone Pyramids... We-uns..are gonna leave a LONG trail of CDs, Cassettes, & Vinyl...(Already HAVE)...that'll have Scholars a-Buzzin' for Centuries & Milleniums to come.

Yeah, I pen ME into all these Little Efforts, & LOVE Entertaining YOU, each & every Time. But, it's THEM I always keep in-mind, Too. I'd LOVE to have My Thoughts, which are really OUR thoughts...Echo-Down as Close to Forever..as it gets.

Just Because.

Best Wishes/Big Hugs,
Stan

I write songs to pitch to Artists.

It seems that this is not usually an either or question. I also suppose that in some instances the two things are not mutually exclusive.

Tom

Good question! I dont think the two are mutually exclusive. I write because I enjoy it but I am writing with an audience in mind, you want people to hear your music and not think you suck. But admittedly, I cant hit a home run every time...so I definately have more then my share of "songs only a writer could love". And that is cool with me, I dont need to demo those or try and pitch them. You just need to be able to recognize what may have public appeal wand what songs are best kept in your own head.

Chad

Oh they can seperate big time...
There are those who just sit and all they think about is PITCH, & Hit they steer the songs so much so that you can see how forced and contrived it is. This is especially what some Big Hip Hop hits do and Country Hits do. BUT this is the nature of the BUSINESS Of Songwriting. And the competition everyday factors..
Sometimes they hit that perfect middle - that middle is other songwriters and musicians say "wow this is great song, and it's catchy as hell, and it is COOL.... The fans will pick up on one or all of those points too.

The need to have new or even old titles and concepts that can be rehashed in a different angle or perspective is VERY demanding. And not an easy task..
It should always be easier to "Write WHATEVER you want" and that is why soooooo many can't or haven't yet written or had a hit..

Naturally followed by the impossible BREAK!

Things may be different in the case of a singer/songwriter.

Two examples: Bob Dylan never wrote for an audience (at least from what I understand from his interviews). He wrote thoughtful songs of the early 60's but was never personally involved in the protest movement, though they tried to get him involved. The audience found him. Remember his quote "I always considered myself a song and dance man". He played an electric set at Newport. That definitely was not for the audience. He was Booed, but survived.

John Prine plays anything that's on his mind. People buy his records and go to his concerts to see what's on his mind.

I can name a dozen others that are found by the audience and not the other way around. People want to be part of the show, and that means identifying with the performer.

Neil Young said "It's all about the music", partnerships be damned. Next to David Byrne, Young is the most diverse musician I've known of. He's tried everything and can still sell out a concert. The music is what brings the audience to you.

I struggle between writing songs and playing the instruments to make a decent recording. I don't have a band. The band is me. I would prefer other talent on my recordings but don't have that luxury.

I write for myself. I have no clue who my audience is, as the people who like my stuff are so varied that it is hard to figure out what is common between them.

Hey Andy...I FINALLY got a chance to view Your Video..and it's GREAT! What a HOOT!!! FUN Song..FINE Animation..Kicks BUTT!!!

Hooky-Hooky-HOOKY~~~ (I'm In-AWE!)

"KUDOS!"
Stan

As the songwriter, I am the first listener, the first audience. A song has to hook me with the first guitar part. I play it again and the hook-factor either hooks me or I keep exploring.

I am especially hooked by that first lyrical line, and must be, for me to want to know where the song can go. The guitar mood and rhythm hook me. Then some line I ad lib hooks me into the story implied in it. I begin to wonder what the singer-character in the song is talking about, what they will say next, what their situation is, where the story may go.

I'm writing for me, the first listener, the first audience. If I'm at a concert I'm the only one whose entertainment I'm concerned with. When I'm writing a song, I'm the only audience I'm concerned with. Hopefully, the next audience will enjoy it as much as I do, but I can't be concerned with them while I'm writing, and listening, and hooked by the germ of the song.

I hear a lot of songs I am skeptical the writer was truly hooked by, motivating them to write it, and suspect their mind was on something else while they wrote it. They weren't listening, weren't an enthralled audience for the work. They were writing with their focus somewhere else, marketing, prestige, money, something other than the mood, the story, the accompaniment.

Write for the first listener, the first audience, you, and, if you satisfy their sense of what's good in a song, odds are anyone else who hears it will appreciate it the same way you did.

Thanks, Stan!

I would probably have to say I write for both myself and for others...but it's not "others as in group masses"...I write about my life, sometimes my writing is the only way to get through a situation without any more damage than road rash LOL and I write about others which also is for me ...mostly it's fun for me but it amazes the person I write about...when people come over and talk me into playing for them I also spend time watching them, their eyes and body language and listen to what they converse about here and there through the visit...it's mostly their eyes for some reason that it comes to me...before long after watching and listening to someone I can write a song that basically sums up their life and emotions without even knowing them well...my grandmother called it a gift of being an old soul...I call it good observation, only thing is they are usually very good songs and it amazes the whole group there but I'm playing for fun and never can remember them after I sing them..hubby is gonna get a hand held recorder he said just so I can have these songs to play more than just a spur of the moment thing LOL

For myself... if others like it its a bonus

Seeing as how I make no money from my music, and I don't really have an "audience", per se, it would be pretty silly to write for anyone else other than myself.
I like to keep myself entertained. That probably explains why I make some of the choices that I do.

I think how you write depends on your level of success. It seems like when an artist is just starting out the songs are always for yourself. But when you start becoming more successful and gaining more fans, your songs naturally have to be for your fans.

When I write, the inspiration is for me. Then I re-write the song to fit a larger demographic. It has to tell a story that appeals to a larger group of people than just me....but if I don't feel it in my heart I can't write it either.

I write entirely for myself as I never had an audience until the internet came along.

I write as a challenge for myself and because I simply can't help it, almost like I have too. The pleasure and enjoyment I get out of composing satisfies my soul, there is nothing that I can compare it too.

I've been writing songs and music for over 30 years and when I finished one, I would just put it aside and start on the next one, even my friends were not aware of what I did, they knew I had a guitar but most have never seen me play it, as I would always give it to someone else to play.

Writing for yourself does have it's advantages. You can do exactly what you want with out having to worry if someone else likes it or not. There is no pressure in any way shape or form. Artistic freedom is guaranteed.

It never bothered me that I had no audience but what do you do with all the songs and music that you have written when they are finished. Well for years I did nothing until I got a computer and then I could spend my time orchestrating and arranging, which brings me as much pleasure as the writing did. It also gave me the confidence in what I was doing because now my songs were infinitely more listen-able than just an acoustic guitar song.

The internet did not give me an audience because my music was never aimed at anybody, it was done for my own pleasure but that does not mean that other people could not enjoy it. It did give me the opportunity to allow other people to listen to it and if they like it, great but if they don't, it does not diminish the pleasure that I received doing it in the first place.

And now I have an audience without having to compromise my artistic integrity and my audience will appreciate what I do and it is always nice when somebody says they like it, and who doesn't need an ego boost every now and then. I receive payment in the form of pleasure and it is enough.

ALL--
I have been writing since the 50's--I started out in the Air Force trying to do Elvis, Carl Perkins, and Johnny Cash type songs, but they were songs about me-- As I came from a similar background of these artists--All I needed was 4 Chords and a Cheap Stella guitar. As I look back at my style and content--there is a big element of my BIO in most of my songs--I write from the heart--keeping in mind to flag anything someone may be interested in Commercially--I have been writing 3-5 songs a week through this last year at the age of 72. It is partly, a compulsion, and a relief-- to pen a lyric that makes a universal statement. Over 200 of my lyrics are posted mostly on Forum #3. These songs are for many and varied reasons.

Like STAN THE MAN said--Leave one as a work of art--A "WIND BENEATH MY WINGS" type for the ages. Writers, especially old school, tend to simplify an idea and wear it out--New networking writers pen one for what's needed commercially--WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR--DOLLARS.

I may never get ONE in, but I do enjoy learning how to lay down an IDEA and drive IT HOME--whether for ME, YOU, OR THEM. There is a great deal of talent here at JPF. I am still learning and still writing--Maybe some of you read, on Forum #3, my lyric: WE ARE THE SONGWRITERS

IF NOT HERE IT IS AGAIN:

WE ARE THE SONG WRITERS
�2010 Mackie Humphries
V1
We are the song writers
Telling stories �bout ladies
Fast cars, drunks and guitars
A few words �bout winners
And some for the two timers
The freeloaders and loners
Lovers, haters and do-gooders
We are the song writers.
V2
We are the song writers
Making up excuses for losers
Cowboys, bulls and riders
Frontier days and rodeo clowns
Those bareback bronc champions
Ropers and dopers and chasers
Men, women who are cheaters
We are the song writers.
CH
We write the songs - for movers and shakers
We give them lives - screamers and day dreamers
We make the rhymes - for all the words and phrases
We do the meter - for all the players and singers.
BR
Cliches, Dialects and old sayings with accents
And double negatives and dangling participles
With dots, dashes, commas and special symbols
Why do we write? We can't help it.We're addicted
CH
We write the songs - for movers and shakers
We give them lives - screamers and day dreamers
We make the rhymes - for all the words and phrases
We do the meter - for all the players and singers.
TAG
We are the song writers............................

Write On YOUALL

Mackie

I would have to say I write mainly for myself. I began with writing poetry and when I kept getting comments from people saying certain ones should be songs I began trying lyrics. Most of my ideas and words come to me when I'm working. A phrase will pop into my head and I will write a poem or lyrics around it. I found writing to be a great stress reliever. Now that I want to improve I've come here and will write some based on the advice and observations of those here. I don't know if I'll ever have an audience so for now I will just continue to write for the pleasure of it.

I'd say it's always been about me for me.

Wanted to say I -used- to write for the audience, but when I really think about it... it's just used to be about me IN RELATION TO an audience. Now I'm pretty disinterested in what the audience thinks. (Though, my own standards are ridiculously high. I tend to think 90% or so of my original material is crap and it never sees the light of day, heh!)

For what it's worth, I started out as a cover song guy -- My PRIMARY motivation to start writing about fifteen years ago was an irritation at being compared to various original artists.

All hail the ego of a 20 year old musician. *laugh*

Most of my writing used to be just for myself, but now it's a little different. I still write for myself to get my feelings out of me, because writing songs is sometimes the only way I can deal with difficult things in my life, but also I write for an audience in mind. Like Puddleglum, before the Internet, I didn't have an audience except for myself and my close friends and family. Over the last year that I have been playing some live shows and getting my name out there, I have cultivated a tiny fanbase that does appreciate what I do. I don't have a large fanbase and I'm not making a lot of money off of my own stuff quite yet (I've sold a few CDs and MP3s though!), but that's not even why I write anyway. I write because I HAVE to or I go crazy! If someone says they appreciate my stuff, that's more than enough payment for me!

I've been writing for ages. I started with a journal, progressed to poetry, and then wrote short stories for over ten years. I had a long break where I didn't write when my two kids came along, but now I'm writing again. I guess I write for myself mainly. But I don't tend to write about myself directly. I suppose there's some of me in what I do, but I mostly try to avoid writing about myself (cause' I'm damn boring).

I write for myself, almost all of the time, unless I write a piece specifically for someone that I know and love.