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Should the producer of cd demo ask for half of the writers copyright ownership if he puts music to your lyrics... Futhermore
should the writer pay the exspense of producing the demo..

This seems to be popping up a lot lately. I can't answer legally, but in my opinion:

1.) co-writers of a song share in the copyrights
2.) co-writers of a song share in the demo costs

It really is pretty simple.

Kevin

If he put your lyrics to music, he is half owner of the copyright.

As far as paying for the demo - whatever arrangement you both agree on is fine.

John

Unless it is a work for hire. The best advise I can give is to make sure everything is spelled out beforehand.

If you can sing the lyrics or whistle the tune, you should not have to give up ownership to the demo studio. That is their job to musicate your lyrics for a fee. A work for hire. There are many studios out there that do it all the time.

I didn't consider a "work for hire", because you asked "should the writer pay the exspense of producing the demo?"

If it were a "work for hire" you'd take it for granted the writer (you) had to pay for the demo.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong???

My concern with a company that manufactures music for lyrics, is whether or not they're using some of the same music for multiple customers, or just using mediocre generic type music.

I would think if the producer came up with brilliant music for your lyrics, he'd/she'd re-write the lyrics and keep it for himself.

Just some thoughts that creeped into my brain.

Best, John

The producer advertised two songs for around 400.00 but when I informed him there was no wrtten music thats when he starting talking 50-50

I like everett's answer, But still don't know the correct answer..Seems to be difference of opinion...
I was a fishing guide on Lake Fork For 10 years..
There seems to be more fish story's in the music bizz than the fishing bussiness itself...

Almost afraid to ask this one but here goes.
To copyright my lyrics only, before its a complete song with music what copyright form should I use? Please no opinions on whether I should actually do it or not...
Thanks Guys

"The producer advertised two songs for around 400.00 but when I informed him there was no wrtten music thats when he starting talking 50-50"

The plus side of that is the producer may have a personal interest in the promotion of the song if he shares the copyright. Also, he may work harder at the music if a slice of royalties could be his in the future.

Read any agreement carefully (many variations). I've hired several singers in the past. Though they were paid well up front, in the agreement, if I made over X amount ($2,500 I think) on the track, they were entitled to another payment of $500 - $750.

Good luck, John

I like the work for hire approach.

I agree. You should not give up any ownership for a demo.

If you want to do it correctly through the copyright office.

Simple. go here

http://www.copyright.gov/eco

open an account, go through the on-line process, pay $35. Then upload a document with the lyrics.

There are three options on the on-line form. You can copyright the lyrics, the music, the arrangement. All or any.

Hope this helps

ps. if you get a message:

'The server you are trying to access is either busy or experiencing difficulties'.

close your browser, and then reopen and try again.

God Bless Roy and Helen

When you say the above, do you mean that the producer was offering his services as a producer. Or is it a demo service offering to do 2 songs for $400.

By the way, and I am not plugging here. I pay a demo man $150 to produce the music and do the producing as a 'work for hire'.

That means it belongs to me, so unless your producer has the golden touch, why not go that route.

Just a thought.

God Bless Roy and Helen

If someone wrote some killer music and came to you and asked you to write a few words to go with it, would you expect to be considered a co-writer?

Doveplot,

If you only have lyrics, it's not a song yet. If you want someone to write music for the lyrics, unless they agree to write it as a work for hire, they own the rights to the music they have written. Personally, I will not write music for lyrics unless I own the rights to my music. On the other side of the coin, if I write music for a song, I do not charge for my work in recording it. In my opinion, being a producer or demo service that writes music creates a conflict of interest.

I've heard a lot of demos done by services that write the music to lyrics. Very, very seldom have the melodies sounded any good. Often they sound like they are forced onto the words. Maybe some services can handle the conflict of interest (where the sooner they get music written to the words, the sooner they get paid) but I suspect, from experience, it is only a small number of them.

Additionally, writing chords to a melody is called "arranging" a song. The arrangement is also a work of art and is copyrightable. Similarly, unless it is done as a work for hire, the arranger has claim to their work.

I hope that helps clear things up for you. I highly recommend that you get a copy of John Braheney's book "The Craft and Business of Songwriting." It is available at libraries, I got my copy from Powell's books, an online used bookstore. It answers this and many other questions and may help protect you from costly mistakes.

All the Best,
Mike

If someone helps you write lyrics or music for a song, unless they are compensated as a work for hire, then they are a co-writer. As far as producing the demo. Being a producer is yet another job description and would require another round of negociation.

A 'song' consists of a 'lyric' and the 'melody' to which it is sung. Whoever 'wrote' the lyric and whoever 'wrote' the melody is the copyright owner, from the moment these two components are put into fixed form, written, recorded.

Those two components, however simply joined, a simple a capella recording, or written in words and music notation, can be registered with the copyright office.

All else is arrangement, the instruments, the production, vocalization, backup singers, recordings, etc. The contract for those services can spell out the deal, work-for-hire, usage, etc.

What kind of deal the copyright owner wishes to strike with a producer or publisher or artist's management is up to them. Everything should be spelled out, including duration of the deal, in a formal written contract.

Gary, I could add: things you mentioned are subject of copyright
too as "sound recording", I mentioned it today in this post:


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