JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Please stand up.

So the death of the nation started with Reagen and the final nail will be driven by Obama. When the big O gets it to 0 it will be an indication no one is buying, no one is selling, and we are just a stagnate cess pool of society with no one having any money to spend on anything.
Then we will have achieved Big Jim's dream of everyone being equally miserable.

Maybe the Mayans were right after all.

Ray:

Your appointment as El Supremo de Lapland is being drawn up as I speak. All it will cost you is a mere Twenty Thousand Hearns. (Remember Red Skelton?) I'm not certain there would be adequate checks and balances if I allowed Large Jim to be your deputy but I will consider it... LOL!

Bill:

That Mayan thing is right on... I'm selling out and booking a flight on Virgin Airways little risk it all shuttle... LOL!

Are we having fun or what???

Best,

Dave

I visited that site and found there this definition:

"In common usage deflation is generally considered to be “falling prices”. But there is much more to it than that. Often people confuse deflation with disinflation or with Depression (as in “the Great Depression”). These three terms are related but not synonymous."
http://inflationdata.com/articles/2008/07/16/what-is-deflation/

I can suppose - what if current inflation rate 1.5 will turn to - 1.5 or close to it (the same but with minus), so, we will face a new Great Depression, right?

I'm Ukraine based, it's thousand miles away, but I'm concerned about it too cuz as said:
"If America has a head cold then other world has a pneumonia"

Dave,
I remember Freddy the Freeloader. Is that the same? Well count me in!

Scott.
An interesting list of inflation you post. When President Eisenhower left office he left with a Balanced Budget. I don't know what President Kennedy did but he probably followed the example of past Adminstrations for various reasons. However as you know he was assanitated so the Power Hungry Lyndon Johnson got what he always wanted, to be president. Lyndon was a Protogee of Franklin Deleno Roosevelt and became a Senator in 1948, I think by stuffing the ballot boxes to get elected.

If I remember correctly Johnson took a look at the Social Security fund and said, We are going to spend this money. And I think he also decided to print more money, hence, inflation. So it got worse until, If I remember correctly the Republician Congress elected in 1994 began the process of trying to rein in run away spending under Bill Clinton. And for a short while we actually had a surplus.But you can't fix in a dozen years what has been done over 75 years.

You may not understand, or agree what happened by liberal policies but you see, or don't see the results. Millions of Morgages under water, 47 million on food stamps, a 15.5 Trillion, and growing Federal Debt. Medicare and Social Security all running out of money. Obama Care keeping businesses from hiring because they don't know what is going to happen next.

And believe it or not, Obama says this next election is make or break for the country. So ask around Scott. See what other people think. Personal Responsibility or the Nanny State.

Year that Johnson left the Presidency: Jan 1969

Year that US goes off the gold standard: 1971

Scott

Actually, If I am not mistaken they quit counting housing cost in the early 80's as part of the inflation index. I'm not sure when they pulled the cost of food and fuel out of it
Bottom line those numbers don't tell the whole story.

We cant buy as much food today with $12.00 what we could buy for $4.00 in 1980. Add it up any way you want but that's 300% in 30 years.
Beef was about $1.40 per pound in 1980, today it's about $3.90 per pound that about 270%

But the fed wants us to feel good about it so they don't count it.

And if you look at those same items since Obama got in the inflation numbers are reaching record highs. Except of course Home prices. The are starting to fall again after a short period of stabilizing. They are down 30 to 40 percent under Obama. but in all fairness he didn't cause the fall. Clinton, Frank, and Dodd own that one.
But Obama hasn't been able to stop it either.

In other words the inflation rate as reported to us by the Fed is simply a lie

Obama will get reelected if only because none of the Republican candidates has a shot in hell. Seriously, how are those guys your only options? 300 million people in the country and those are the best and brightest? Does nobody want the job anymore?

Mitt Romney might be a decent option if not for the fact that people just don't like him. He reminds me of a used car salesman.

Rick Santorum is really good at bringing up issues nobody cares about, and rambling on about how he's a real conservative, as if that matters. No chance in hell in a general election.

Newt Gingrich well... what can you say? Still crazy after all these years. Anti-newt campaign ads write themselves.

Ron Paul seems to have the most measured approach. Problem is nobody is buying what he's selling.

Tripling of prices (300%) over 31 years corresponds to an average inflation rate of 3.6 % - which seems in line with the numbers I gave earlier.

1.036 raised to the 31 power = 2.99

That's what happens with compounding. Same as in a bank account....

Scott

You are right Scott. Looking at it the way I was is really not the way to do it. Inflation like everything else is compounded.
That doesn't change the fact that a pound of Ground beef went up 11% in 2011 and is on track to raise 10% in 2012, and food in General rose 5%. But the fed still doesn't count that. So the 1.5% under Obama doesn't mean squat. Any more than the Reagan or Bush figures.

Carters years look bad because they were still counting Homes, Food, and Fuel.

Sadly Milton Friedman has passed on, and this is from 1979 but still relevant. In defense of capitalism and free enterprise, I share this.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

Inflation is a funny and complex thing. Prices rise (mostly) because of two things: a) supply and demand and b) inflation.

Inflation is purely a monetary phenomena. Print more money and inflation goes up. Electronic goods have huge demand but a huge supply (and manufacturing efficiency counts here, too) - so electronic goods traditionally go down in price over time.

But the wild and wanton money printing that occurred in the last year of Bush II and all of Obama's years are going to lead to rampant inflation -- there is no way around that except for recession or depression. Sorry folks, we are in for a tough ride for years to come.

The "cost of living" index seems to be a total scam to me.

Yes Kevin, you are sadly but probably correct. Friends, this video is alittle longer but try and watch it in it's entirety please....

http://youtu.be/yt_q4FA9kUQ

Friedman, as a libertarian, believed in the supremacy of the unregulated marketplace. And that's exactly what led to the financial meltdown of 2008. And who had to rush to the rescue of Friedman's unfettered capitalist bankers who worshiped at his altar of greed? Yes, government - or more correctly, the taxpayers. But who learns from history?

YOUALL--

WHEN I LEFT THE ORPHANAGE, I HAD FIFTY DOLLARS, SOME CLOTHES, AN OLD SUITCASE AND MAMA'S BIBLE! EVERYTHING THROUGH THE YEARS HAS DISAPPEARED EXCEPT THE BIBLE--NOW THE PRINT IS TOO SMALL TO READ WITHOUT MY BIG MAGNIFIER!

I'VE BEEN ON THE EDGE OF GREAT THINGS ALL MY 73 YEARS, LIKE SONGWRITING AND MUSIC--JUST NEVER GOT QUITE INTO THE MAIN STREAM--NOW I'M RETIRED, AND FIND THAT: WHAT USED TO BE FIFTY DOLLARS IS NOW $3.75! ALL MY CLOTHES ARE BOUGHT ON SALE! SUITCASES ARE MADE OF CLOTH IN CHINA!

I'VE FINALLY REALIZED THAT COMMON SENSE IS NOT THAT COMMON--IT HAS BEEN REPLACED BY COMPLACENCY AND/OR STUPIDITY--ALL OF US HAVE DUG A HOLE TOO BIG TO GET OUT OF--JIMMY BUFFETT HAD IT RIGHT: "IT'S OUR OWN DAMNED FAULT"--WE GO ON WASTING AWAY!

IT MAY TAKE A LITTLE WHILE LONGER--BY THEN IT WILL TOO LATE--THAT'S HOW I SEE IT--AT MY AGE I'M STILL TRYING TO BUILD A BETTER MOUSE TRAP…WRITE A BETTER SONG…..JUST TO WATCH IT ALL FADE AWAY!

DON'T GET ME WRONG, I'M NOT READY TO GO JUST YET--I STILL WANT TO WRITE A HIT SONG AND BE CALLED A CAPITALIST! I'LL BUY ME SOME NEW CLOTHES AND GET MY EYES FIXED--HIRE SOMEONE TO READ THE BIBLE TO ME, ALONG WITH A LOT OF BLUES, JAZZ, ROCK AND COUNTRY MUSIC--MAYBE EVEN GET A NEW COMPUTER!!!!!!!!!!

I GUESS YOU COULD CALL ME A DREAMER!

Mackie

Dan:

You make an interesting point but I'm not sure the capitalist bankers caused the market meltdown. It seems that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, in the interest of promoting ownership of homes to people who were totally unqualified to assume debt of any kind, were in the forefront, led by that Fat Fool Barney Frank, practically giving away (by Government Guarantee) loans to just about anyone who cared to apply.

Do I believe in an unregulated marketplace? Yes, but only to a point. There must be checks and balances in place to prevent fraud and greed... no matter which end of the spectrum you approach the puny efforts of mankind in the business, financial and even humanitarian organizations. The government should never abdicate it's responsibility... but to over-regulate stifles investment and the economy.

It was our government that advocated more and more power to unions, allowing them to demand wages and retirement benefits which by most standards were ridiculous. Eventually, the cost of labor forced business to look elsewhere for it's labor supply, at the cost of American jobs. Now we have only a shadow of our former heavy industry.

I remember attending a seminar at TCU in the 70's and the professor was lauding the invulnerability of General Motors. It sounded good at the time... but look at GM now. An arm of the government... on the public dole. All because of government imposed labor practices... in order to curry votes.

Good jobs were always available when I participated in the 1950 through 1970 work era... but they began to dry up as more and more jobs began to be exported to China, Mexico and other third world nations. Congress did nothing but continue to hold out it's hand and expect their retirement to be worthy of princes, while they continued to vote themselves pay raise after pay raise.

Greed has been with us forever and all one need do is read the many accounts of medicaid fraud every day in our newspapers. Perpetrated by greedy "citizens" wanting something for nothing and crooked medical people attempting to bilk the system.

The taxpayers have had little to say about shouldering the burden imposed upon us by our growing national debt... except in our voting habits. Unfortunately, we have little to say about who gets to run for just about any office. All we get to do is attempt to separate the wheat from the chaff... LOL!

We need less government... but a government that chooses to keep a "thermometer in the pot."

If stupidity got us into this mess, stupidity can get us out.

Stevie

I wasn't going to comment anymore... but I must dispute the above... Lending money to people who are unable to sustainably service their debt has nothing to with promoting home ownership... Or are you suggesting that financial managers all over the world have all of a sudden ALL got stupid at the same time? That may be the lie they told to get the laws relaxed but not why they did it... It has everything to do with greed... the debts were on sold to unsuspecting investors the more they had the more investors were encouraged to buy ... bigger the risk the bigger the return... till one day the pyamid was as big as it could get..

Cheers

Humm,
I remeber when I heard that people could get a loan for a house and all they had to do was pay the interest, not the Principal. At the time i didn't realise what was happening because the New Media didn't report any of the details. At the time I thought, how stupid can that be, how could you ever get your house paid for.

Since then most of the facts have came out but not because of the News Media reporting it. It seems the Government, forced or encouraged the Banks to make the loans and Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac would buy and gurantee the loans. But because most if not all who took these loans had no way to pay for them, I think after a certain time the regular payment came due and at that time most if not all people that took these loans had no resources so the housing bubble burst. SO, the Taxpayers are on the hook for billions of dollars. Because of the housing bubble, I think Leman Brothers lost 600 bilion dollars.

Now excuse me there hacksaw but it wasn't Wall Street, Bankers, or Brokers that made people take these loans. The people themselves decided that. The Liberal thinkers sold the people a bill of goods and the people bought it. Actually the greedy people here are the people that thought they could get away with getting something for nothing. It failed. Not because so called greedy bankers, but greedy people.

Mornin' Noel:

Let me try to explain my point. Our liberal congress has decided to redistribute the wealth of our nation from the "haves" to the "have nots." (Despite all the sacrifices of our efforts during and after WWII to promote freedom and equality for all nations.) Those of us who have worked all our lives, scrimped and saved, helped others, have been law abiding citizens... are now supposed to stand idly by as our government begins to tax us more so they can put the lazy, indolent scofflaws back on our level financially. They tax us in many ways. Some are not called taxes yet they are supported from public coffers.

In this same "train of thought"... congress believed it could further this idea by getting all the poor out of public housing and into their own homes. (No matter what the taxpaying public wanted.) We had no say in this scheme. They decided the easy way to promote this flawed idea... was to guarantee every loan made with "streamlined" credit rules... by the FULL FAITH and CREDIT of the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

Everyone knows that bankers, for the most part, are not the brightest people on earth. With the opportunity to loan money backed by government guarantees... it seemed plausible to them. After all, they are not the social conscience of the world or our nation. They are in business to lend money.

The bankers did not make this law nor did they promote it. Our greedy, liberal congress made this stupid decision all by themselves... without voter approval... and yes, they lined their pockets with the easy pickings provided with hidden loopholes in this legislation. If you want to point the finger of blame on rich folks, go ahead... but George Soros was probably first in line to receive his unwarranted share along with Barney Frank.

Please don't misinterpret my point. There is nothing wrong with being rich. I would like to join their ranks. It is wrong to have gained that wealth through criminal and fradulent means.

Noel... you are right about the rest of the story. The financial markets all over the world began to scoop up these "derivative" investments backed by the full faith and credit of a now broke U.S. Government... bankrupt financially and morally.

I believe Alex from the Ukraine on this same thread made a statement... when the U.S. gets a headache financially, the rest of the world is deathly ill... or something to that effect.

Mackie:

I know exactly where you are coming from... and I've been there. Well said, my friend.

My best to everyone,

Dave

Before I forget... I should respond to Colin Ferguson:

I agree with what you said. Our system has evolved politically and now, a series of poorly-timed caucuses appear to determine who will be the nominee for President from each party. (It once was determined at the National Conventions.)

True, none of the candidates now "stumping" for the nomination of the Republican Party will stand a chance against an incumbent President hell-bent on destroying our nation. You, my Canadian friend have portrayed my worst nightmare in vivid and very observant colors.

Welcome to JPF.

Dave

Perfectly right you are, Dave, let me tell you what happened in Ukraine in 2008:
people took a loans to buy a homes( loans were nominated in USD)
then crisis kicked economy and Ukrainian export(nominated in USD)
was down,
next: national currency due absence of export sales had devaluated for 60%.
Next: people who took those loans couldn't pay banks bills( cuz their salaries were in national currency) and
banks begun to withdraw the homes as they were mortgaged.
Now parliament banned loans in foreign currencies, but all those given before 2008 are legal and banks do what they do with it.
Also I agree with you about "derivative", even gold is transformed with those derivatives into "paper gold"
and now COMEX and LBMA sell each year more gold than it exists
physically all over the world.

"In God we trust" is written on each buck but right writing
should be:
"In gold we trust"
cuz people didn't invent better money than gold and this is
more equitable money than any others.

Humm,
Sometimes it appears people from other countries think the liberal/sccalist method is the way to go. However the latest fiasco is Greece that followed that exact path. That is the path Obama is following of which is mostly a disaster.

SO. at the risk of offending a whole bunch of Foreigners I will take any of the more conservative Republicians now running over the Community Organizer now in office who "Votes" present too much of the time.

It is nice for many other countries to sell Uncle Sam many of their goods and make a nice profit but enspouce the very liberal
polcies that effectively cut their own throat when it comes to politics. But, have a nice day!

Literally stood up before I clicked on this.

I don't like politics. Then again, who does?

Did you mean me? If yes, then where did you find in my statements
approval of a socialism? My phrases about gold? Or what?
And more, if I was an American and should vote for candidates-
I chose Ron Paul( just read my previous posts on this thread to understand why)

No Alek, not you.

I don't expect people to believe what I say... I suggest those who think the government forced these changes onto the financial system should go and research through freedom of information on who was lobbying for these changes...

and why people would put themselves into this kinda hole... well that is just human nature... again I suggest people who think that everyone else should be in control of their weaknesses just like they are... seriously need to read a better range of educational material regarding marketing and customer behaviour... great sales men don't need to care if you can afford it... only that you commit so they get their commission.

Cheers

To be fair, Greece is just one example. And their problems are far more complicated than you're letting on.

Canada is a relatively liberal country and we rode out the worldwide recession completely unscathed, our economy remained rock solid and our banking sector is as healthy as it has ever been. So healthy in fact that for a time Iceland considered adopting our currency.

And remember when the US lost it's AAA rating from Standard and Poor's? Here's S&P's debt ratings projections from 2006. Note when Canada is projected to lose it's AAA rating...

You may have social conservatives running for office in the US, but there is a huge difference between Social and Fiscal conservatives. When was the last time you had anybody in office who tried to reign in spending in any real way, Liberal or Conservative?

My country is far more socially liberal than yours is, and we're doing fine. Perhaps you should look at what the real systemic problems in your nation are, and realise that neither side of the aisle has any intention of ever fixing them.

I'm curious. How much do you pay in Taxes? There must be a reason Canada is doing well in this crisis. What percentage of your population pays no taxes?
Also what percentage of your population is on Welfare and what percentage of your population are illegal immigrants?
You have a population of roughly 35 Million people. We have that many illegal immigrants.

I pulled this from an article on Canada's economic picture. 30 K per person in 2015? That's not as Bad as the USA but it's getting there. I hope you guys can stay as fiscally sound as you are now.

Well Bill,
You know the old story. A Billion here a Billion there, pretty soon we are talking real money. Not sure how much Wheat we buy from Canada but I suppose it is a bunch. Maybe none, I haven't heard lately. We do buy more Oil from Canada than any other country. I read they are using the railroad to transport the Oil from Canada that the "Annointed" one passed on building the Pipeline. And so it goes.