JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Rip Off Gigs, Bands on Tour Without Original Members

I've just bought two tickets for 100$ approximately(I'm in the UK) to see 10 CC. I only found out after buying, that the only original member of the 1970s/80s rock band is Graham Gouldman.
Who wasn't even the lead singer on most recordings.
A case of buyer beware.I suppose the CC stands for Carboard Cuttouts?
Any similar stories?
Travis

Hi Travis. At least Graham Gouldman was co-writer on most of 10CC's songs. I guess that accounts for something. But I hear you about bands touring without original members. Unfortunately, our rock heroes age and die off like the rest of us, and oftentimes it seems the names are kept going if not the original people. I think that's a money factor.

I've always had a problem accepting bands where the lead singer is not the same one who sang the hits. It's not the same Foreigner without Lou Gramm; Styx without Dennis DeYoung (although they did have two other singers); Journey without Steve Perry; the Guess Who without Burton Cummings.

At one time, Molly Hatchet did not have even one original member. What's up with that? Yet all these names are still touring. Some of them don't sound half bad, but I wonder why they don't just name themselves something else and forge a new identity. Oh yeah, that's right. The money.

Greg

Oh, and to be fair, I do have a Journey CD with their current lead singer. It really is pretty good, but it's obvious they tried to capitalize on Steve Perry's vocal style. May not go over with us purists, but is probably a good business strategy.

I saw the current Foreigner a couple years ago. Mick Jones, co-founder and writer of the majority of their hits, was the only original member. They were not bad, but it amounted to listening to a Foreigner cover band, Just saying.

Greg

Two members of GFR still tour and call themselves Grand Funk without their lead singer, lead guitar player and songwriter Mark Farner. Mark must call himself Mark Farner, formerly of Grand Funk Railroad.

Black Sabbath without Ozzy ain’t Black Sabbath.
Led Zeppelin without Robert Plant ain’t Led Zeppelin.
2LT without John Daubert ain’t 2LT!

I guess if Mic and Keith ever kick the bucket, Charlie Watts will put together a band and call it the Rolling Stones.

No sir, not in my book!


Thank God, Van Halen never switched up people!

Lol the list goes on and on so it seems. I suppose the most interesting of all is the Elvis Show, without Elvis of course. I was happy to see that in Manchester. 6,000 people were there to see Elvis' former band comprising of James Burton etc, play live to a video image of Elvis.
Bad gigs;
Hawkwind, without an original member
Freddy & The Dreamers(Freddy miming)
Boney M. Hilarious gig, not an original member, but the male lead singer had what looked like a giant cucumber down his tights
PJ Proby, a big star in the UK in the 60s pissed

To me, Journey was not Journey with Steve Perry. They quit being Journey (the band who backed Santana on all his early records) when he joined the band.



Actually Mark Farner is not allowed to use the words "Grand Funk Railroad" in any of his promotional material. There is a cover sheet on top of every contract that goes out warning concert promoters not to use those words under threat of a lawsuit. He still gets paid when "Grand Funk" plays, but he got voted out by 2/3 of the shareholders (Mel Shacher and Don Brewer).

I have worked for Lynyrd Skynyrd. Guitarist Gary Rossington is the only remaining member from their glory days. Rickey Medlocke (better known as the guitarist in Blackfoot) plays with them now. He was an original member before they got their record deal. At this point, Johnny Van Zant has been their singer way longer than his brother was. They rock. The fans love them. It still feels like a tribute band to me. Most of the general public doesn't realize (or even care) that it's not all original members.
I have also worked for The Spinners, who have only two out of five original singers. They have three young guys joining original members (and septuagenarians) Bobbie Smith and Henry Fambrough. The young guys can sing their asses off, and the older fellows are still holding their own. They are extremely nice guys, too.
I worked for Charlie Thomas' Drifters. They call themselves that to differentiate from other groups calling themselves The Drifters. Charlie was not an original Drifter, but he has sung for them since 1958, and he sang lead on a lot of their hits. Ben E. King is the only living original Drifter, but he very seldom plays out any more. Occasionally he and Charlie will a special show together.

Hey Kurt, Ricky Medlocke lives here in my town and owns a recording studio here.

Doug Gray is the only original member of The Marshall Tucker Band now. They've had lot's of tragic deaths over the years.

Travis,

I hear what you are saying. I always look to see who is in a band today before I go to see them, especially if big bucks are involved.

On the other side of the coin, it is rare to find any band or organization that is totally made up of the same people who were in it 20 years ago. Even the Beatles, Eagles and Rolling Stones evolved in the early days. And the Who was still calling themselves the Who after half of them were dead....same with the Beach Boys....and on and on.

I had a bad experience several years ago when I went to see one of my favorite bands, only to find out that [color:#FF0000]none of the members were original (the singer claimed to be with the band in its pre-famous days). I contacted the hotel manager (he wasn't aware of this either) and asked for (and got) my money back.

Any band that tours without all original members should bill themselves as "A Tribute To..."[/color]

I saw the Doors a couple of years ago. It was a free concert. I was amazed at how bad they sounded. I have heard local bands cover their tunes better. The first 20 minutes were terrible. I'm thinking 40 years of playing the same stuff and they still F-up. In all fairness, when they got into it, they really did rock. If you closed your eyes, had another beer and stood downwind of the 420's. So I don't feel too bad now when I screw up one of my own...

Some good or maybe bad anecdotes here. Another rip off is these CDs which purport to be some band from the 1960s/70s and when you get them home the sound and performances is terrible.You look at the notes on the cover and see that "these tracks contain one or more original members of each band" Yeah it's usually the drummer or bass player who doesn't sing.The lead singer is probably a session guy hired for that particular recording lol.

Two words:
Mike Love.

Hi Travis

I can assure you, you are not being ripped off – I saw this line-up 2 years ago and it’s one of the best shows I have seen, no kidding. On the strength of that gig I am also going to see them again in May. Graham Gouldman is a master songwriter and I think you will be gobsmacked by the band. I also saw them back in 1977, even then (35 years ago) there was no Lol Crème or Kevin Godley. Paul Burgess (drummer) has been their 'live' drummer from the beginning (1972), Rick Fenn has been with them since Bloody Tourists (1978?) both of which play in the current line up. Eric Stewart has more or less now retired from the game now. I think people forget just how old some of the people in bands we know and love are. Just for completeness I’m not sure what Kevin Godley is up to, but I know Lol Crème is releasing an album soon with The Producers (which includes Trevor Horn and a couple of other bods).

Your overall point (about bands misrepresenting themselves) is a good one, but I think it unfair to level that complaint at 10cc. Incidentally which gig are you going to?

Nige

PS. You should have gone to see Yes in the 80s that would have confused the hell out of you

Graham Gouldman was interviewed on one of the BBC breakfast shows this very morning and he said Paul Burgess has been with them since 1973 and Rick Fenn since '76, so I was close Apparently Kevin Godley will be joining them for 1 gig in London.

GG also mentioned a tribute song for Andrew Gold (who is in the picture of all the JPF folk at the top of this page) which is being released soon.

Yes! I hear that happens (especially overseas). One or two
members of a once popular band or singng group will reunite
(essential for the $$$$$$$) and tour. A few of 1950's and 60's
groups (motown, chess) did this.

Andrew was loved by many and I had nothing but admiration for him. He was one of my favorites as a kid and one of the first of those types (after Alan O'Day) I became friends with. I still remember that particular show and feel it may have been the best one we ever did. Of course none of them were less than mind blowing to those who attended based on comments people STILL make to me all these years later.

Back on topic, I went to see Heart last year at the Indiana State Fair where I first saw them in 1977 at my first ever concert. Sadly they were opening for Journey. Their Faux singer may as well have been a recording as he sat on the drum riser behind the guitarist and keyboardists who were original members and who added completely out of place idiotic extended solo's into nearly all the songs while they musically masturbated and the Phillipino (I think) singer they found on YouTube (And who does sound like Steve Perry) sat disinterested behind them in some cases not even facing or noticing the audience. It was the worst professional famous artist concert performance I have ever seen and heard. Meanwhile Heart was treated like some local nobodies, with no lighting, no backdrop, pushed nearly off the stage in front of Journey's gear, but whom blew us all away and had fans cheering and singing along and offering standing ovations (even though only half of us were there yet) and they sounded just as awesome as they had in 1977 minus the two male guitarists stroking off to their songs, and instead using nearly all female musicians on stage in a small understated set up. And Nancy pointed out that Ann wasn't using any auto-tune or vocal effects on her voice unlike (fill in the blank). It was all REAL. Once Faux Journey came on to play and show off the two remaining members instrumental prowess, people were disgusted like I was and barely applauded anything they did and were as low energy as I've seen in a big rock show.

Buyer beware on these shows. Ironically many JPF members have joined up with some of these old bands like Ed Toth playing drums for the Doobies brothers and Bob Malone playing keys for John Fogerty or Marc VonEm singing and playing guitar with the Matchbox 21 guys, Bumblefoot who plays guitar now for Gun's and Roses among many others. (Interestingly enough Marc and Bob both won JPF Live Artist of the Year awards and the other two are also JPF award winners and nominees and have performed in our JPF Awards show house band last time out). So there are some good musicians out there doing these shows. But they shouldn't pretend to be the originals.

Brian

A few years ago Journey had a really great original replacement singer. Tons of energy, worked the crowd, embodied the songs and had an original voice that worked for them. He helped them on one of their most successful tours then they were to write a new CD and record the thing with him. Instead they opted to discard the singer without the balls to tell him to his face. They used a press release to announce a new guy (the Steve Perry clone). Followed by not writing new material, but rather rerecording old material with the clone.

Sad, sad, sad.

i just saw chuck negron at epcot/disney in florida. as he promotes himself as "formerly of three dog night". he still has the voice, the chops and all that... and some good stage presence. personally, i thought he should have called himself "one dog night" or just "dog"! his band is made up of his son on bass and many other "younglings" that do a pretty good job of mimicking the awesome band of the original 3DN... but that's where it does fall into the category of being a "cover band" in my opinion. good musicians but no where in the ballpark with the likes of joe scherme or mike alsup, any of those guys... who i believe still tour with the other 2 dogs.
i did also manage to see "guess who" earlier in the month and i must say i was impressed with the musicianship and the vocals of their lead singer... still not quite there, but the only original member of the group, the bass player was awesome and he did give props where they were deserved. but just because i'm an old dog and have seen all these bands in their peak days, i'm probably a bit jaded. younger crowds who just see some old dudes up there with some younglings... probably doesn't mean so much. just sayin'.
rock on,
r.

Hi Nigel
Saw the 10CC gig in Manchester and it was a great show. Gouldman sang some of the hits he'd written in the 60s for Herman, Yardbirds etc then got together with the band in the second half.We all went away happy and I hung my head in shame for doubting the talents of these fine musicians.
Gouldman has been really busy doing the PR work for this tour and it obviously has paid off by the number of punters at the M/ch gig.

Hi Travis

I'm so glad you enjoyed it. GG is from Manchester so it must have been a kind of home coming for him. I'm off to see them tonight.

Cheers

Nige

Hi Nige
Born in Salford like myself I believe and he grew up in Prestwich M/ch.
You'll enjoy it I'm sure,You'll get a treat in the encore, they do a supurb version of one of their biggest hits in a different style. I won't spoil it for you though
Have a good evening
John AKA Travis