Tom Shea's latest discussion brought this question of mine back to the forefront.
TAXI has access to many sources looking for material. Why have they had such small success scoring hits on Billboard charts/radio?

The vast majority of chart successes are written by the artist or someone in his/her inner circle. That's why Taxi is chasing soundtracks, commercials, TV spots, etc.

good point Colin

I go to songwriter workshops at BMI in Nashville and they are taught by Jason Blume-one of the most knowledgeable,experienced,wired in,connected people in the business...He is also a great guy who truly wants to see people succeed...He continually reminds us that most Billboard chart artists and songs are by nature often a closed loop shop that other folks -whatever their talent-are unlikely to be able to break into......These guys are already comfortable with and committed to other other by the time they are having hits.......Its just real unlikely they will be looking for or open to outside material.....Thats why he says the real action and better chances are in music licensing.....While we all hope and pray and strive for a publisher pickup of our songs by Music Row/NY/LA/London etc-its the music licensing catalogs that are in fact more open to independent/unknown songwriters.....The big stars do indeed listen to 1000 songs a year pitched to them by the pluggers from the publishers-but they have really really high standards and paticular personal tastes in what grabs em.....More likely that us little people can write songs good enough for use in Mass media ventures such as Tv/Films/Commercials/Etc......You are only gonna get your songs on Radio if you have some super juice behind them i.e. a big star or big label pushing em.....You are only gonna get on Billboard with a major distribution power behind your song.......vicious circle......I still do pitches to Music Row and other cities-but I also send everything I do to music licensing catalogs as well.....its just incredible and insane competition that only the truly afflicted even attempt......But there again-here we are keeping at it........So best of luck to everyone...

Tom

Hey Shayne!

How do you know that TAXI isn't responsible for some of the chart songs on Billboard? TAXI wouldn't be given the Billboard credits anyway; the artist, record company, and the songwriters would be noted for the credits.

Some of those Billboard chart songs could have been TAXI forwards.

Best, John

I would think that TAXI would claim some credit for helping to get that big hit song to the artist to help promote their service...

How would they know if the member doesn't report it to TAXI?

I imagine only a small percentage of members report successes to TAXI.

Also, something I can personally vouch for; many times the track forwarded by TAXI isn't used, but then the publisher will ask for more tracks - in which those tracks will be used. That's happened to me several times.

And I'm one of the quiet members of TAXI. I never reported any of my successes. Shame on me... Shhhhh....

Best, John

I have been watching the Taxi information that they send me carefully. They tell about the placements they know of - and I have not seen any Billboard placements. One would think that even if a Taxi member did not notify Taxi of such a placement, the screener would remember and notify Taxi.

I agree that the information here from sources such as Marc and Rand clearly demonstrate that the chance of an outside cut making it are very slim to non-existant - for a top artist's album.

I do, however, believe that there is a significant chance of getting a placement for a lesser artist or a film/tv scene. That is why I am a Taxi member at the present time. Looking for the smaller stuff.

Tom

I think you have to start somewhere, and the Taxi listings are good to make connections, if you got the music it takes, I think. They hook you up with people, if the material is there, and you are to build it from there, and show you can deliver at a more constant rate.

I think the major cuts is not just about that one song, of course if you have that unrejectable hit.., but more likely if you are to deliver hits for a major act, they want songwriters who can continue to write/deliver for that artist. So the top dawg's are at a stage in their career, where they might have been Taxi members a while ago, made the proper connections, and now are doing the 'hit circuit'.

So to me, it looks like the portfolio and the continuous output is as important as anything else, if you'll get lucky with that one shot at some point..

I don't think most of the Taxi writers are at a stage in their career where they have the connections or the portfolio to support a major act. So the metaphor they use to promote their services is not always to be taken literally, sometimes it's more like a road stop, than the actual vehicle.. :-)

I almost joined TAXI a few years ago, then talked myself out of it. Doing some research among members, I heard more negative than positive reviews, which naturally caused me to have second thoughts...but that's how it is with anything that gets reviewed more heavily on the negative side..

I agree with Shayne they constantly send emails to us with headings like
"I Had A Dream Last Night" followed by the article....

Don't you think they would blast us with emails saying "We Had a Number One Song LAst Night

Yes it is tight and nobody can promise and deliver everything to you. You can be related to someone in the biggest label and still get nothing accomplished.
So many things "don't happen" for so many reasons.

Yes Taxi is better geared for the commercial,film tv website etc.. And a lot of
Artist looking for songs in "Ireland" yes an unknown artist too. It's NEVER Beyonce is looking for songs etc... But we should ALL know this by now.

TAxi is still a great place to accomplish several things, especially when like most, you have ZERO contacts, no leads. People do get forwards and better yet placements
through Taxi.

What really hurts us is back about 12 -15 years ago or so they were getting placements for shows like Dawson's Creek etc... What's happened over the years is
the MAJORS (of course) have eaten up loads of air space & films. They do whatever they want and corner everything.

Check out this concept -

Hey kids we are a BIG record label and you guys are a new young band. We are going to GIVE your song to this TV show to use. It is going to give you massive exposure.. It's like advertising guys... Okay! So now the kids are THRILLED lets go tell everyone we know,friends and family. The film & TV industry is thrilled there gonna get popular songs in there show,

Young Band -
"So do we even care if we get paid for it? NO of course not." Yes sir whatever you's say. We are just thrilled to be signed.

Okay so this leaves us sitting at home with NO HOPE! Forget the charts and competing with Beyonce's body. You can't get your tunes placed in TV shows, Movie's commercials or nothing!

At least TAXI gives you that chance. If your really really good, work really really hard invest EVERYTHING into yourself and GET lucky. You may get a placement.
That's the way it's supposed to be.

Try to find a few things, Taxi and some other places to increase your chances. But you have to PAY.. And another thing film & TV listings want BROADCAST QUALITY
so you can't just send lyrics or some work tape.. So LOTS more work LOTS more money!
To me that part is not even an issue it's always been automatic every fiber has been invested since Day One!

The first thing TAxi does is make you think and work like a professional.

All The Best!

Hello everybody,

I think I have come up with a description of Nashville in particular and the music industry in general that might explain the "inside nature" of the business and why it is so hard to get inside, and why it is essential to build the relationships and take the time nessasary to get inside.

Nashville is a neighborhood.It has people, children, houses, neighborhood activities, barbeques, weekend hang outs, people helping each other, schools, civic organizations, neighborhood watering holes, and every day, a LOT of activity that goes on. Everybody works. Everybody fights to be there. Everybody wants their position in the neighborhood.

Now who do you want being in the neighborhood? Who would you want to watch your kids, go to the store for you, clean your house, work in your yard, helps your friend's or invest in their business, help them in getting their own home, their own piece of the pie? Someone who you know, know their skills,their intentions, their hearts? Or someone who is wandering around the neighborhood, demanding to be heard, wanting to sit at the table, drink your drinks, eat your food, and prop themselves in your living room? OR take your own job?

Songs are our children. They are our building foundations. They are our reputations, our houses, and everything we do. We protect our lively hoods and where we live and work. When people come around, we like them to look at the neighborhood and possibly even move in. But we are not going to just let them be trusted with our kids and livelyhoods before we get to know them, get to hang out with them. Find out what they are made of.
If they are not willing to do what we do, why is it we are supposed to let them in our neighborhood?

When you deal with Taxi, workshops, personal counciling, co-writing, networking, you are being shown the neighborhood but it takes a long time before you are accepted in. And if you are spending time personally getting to know people, you are working your way into the neighborhood. Everything else is just wandering around.

So the lack or percieved lack of success has more to do with having to take the time to get known as well as learning the craft on the same level as the people who live and work there, that is why it is hard to work your way in.

Hope this makes it easier to understand.

MAB

Marc...
A most excellent analogy! Very true indeed. As an outsider living in Florida for so many of the years I've been writing and making music, I understand the necessity of making connections and becoming a "good neighbor" in the music community. For so many years I tried the long distance approach. Rare if ever that will work citing your fine example. Personally for me, I've decided that my pilgrimage to Nashville will have to wait until my graphics career here at the spacecenter is over either through retirement or lay-offs... and it looks like the latter will become reality very soon. I really haven't wasted much effort or money in sending my "kids" out to look for things... I'll wait until I can move them into a nice neighborhood where i know they will be nourished and grow to be fine old songs and in the process I hope to have some fun doing so... at any rate, your analogy explains so much about the true nature of the music business... people and their comfort zone.
thanks for the post.
Rock on,
R.

Richard,

There is a very good NSAI group in the Titusfield/Orlando area. Go to the NSAI site. The leader of the group is a blind girl named Asli, who works at the space center. She is a rocket scientist. Try to hook up with her. Tell her I said hi.

Explore people in your area who make trips to Nashville. If you were to write songs with them, split recording costs, and write one of their best songs, you find yourself being represented without having to make the trip yourself. It is all about finding the "Win win" senario.

MAB

Great points, Also note :

Another good thing about Taxi is it doesn't matter where your from or where you live.
Totally eliminates that issue completely.

Mike,

I would say that that is somewhat true. About 8 years ago I was appearing before Congress with an NSAI delegation and with us was Micheal Laskow, the owner of Taxi. I asked him "What do I tell people when they ask if you are worth the money? I have my own pitch sources and have never used you guys."
He told me "Nashville is very cliquish and while we have some success there, we are based in LA so will have a better track record in film and television placements."
A month ago, I attended a TAXI meeting and the panel discussion was all about just that, where is Taxi's track record in Nashville at getting cuts. The panel discussion featured independent song pluggers like Sherril Blackman, some record company exectutives, hit writers and publishers. Essentially the entire conversation was about how inside the business has become for everyone, all running into the "Artists writing their own material" wall.
The truth of the matter is that where Nashville is now is where rock music was in 1964 when the Beatles shifted the parameters on the Writer/artist. They basically made it standard operating procedure of rock and pop music to be the artist was the writer, where as before there was a pretty clear line between the two. After that almost all rock or pop cuts were done by the band or the artist.
Country is simply there now. Artists are being signed as writers first and are "taught to co-write" before they release any product to the public. The 360 degree deal and the Internet have led to this nessasity. And for good or ill, that is the nature of the beast we are all dealing with.
So while it is not nessasary to live in a music center, it is pretty important to have a strong presence to break into the mainstream successes that actually make money.
I belive that outside writers are going to have to adapt to the fact that they will be having smaller independent cuts and overall things that make less money. To break in, you are really going to have to be writing with the artists. That is simply part of the shifting way music is done.
There will be more and more people participating in the journey, but it will also be spread out into more areas.The money issue alone has been greatly diffused.
So pluggers, publishers, TAXI, other sources, will still be a part of the equation. But the actual neighborhood will be a tighter circle.

Tis the way of things sometime.

MAB

All that aside, I really don't think it's worth the money.

Shock ! Horror ! Can't denounce one of our sponsors.

It is only of value, if you can attend the roadshows, and if you're a prolific, broadcast finished writer. ( or wish to be )

I just put a tune through Tunecore last week. Guess how many releases for that week ? ... 1200. So 60,000 per year. Add to that, the other distributers, and you're looking at at least 100k finished pieces of music. How may vision slots are there ? Answer - stuff all.

The whole "licence your music" stuff is just a big scam. Sure, some get lucky. It's like the lottery, you may as well buy a ticket.

Most of the listings for film/tv at Taxi are for music libraries. So what ? It's not placement, it's just on a database. It's open slather. It's not worth the $300 per year.

As you guys know, I come from 2 sides. Once, I used to sit down in the back yard, go through the script with a producer, talk, communicate, and interact with the production. To me, that's stil how it's done, ( and how it should be done ) and I still know people who do that.

On the other side, is the "drag and drop" . Hey, it works, and works very well if you have an experienced musical director.

But don't think, buy any means, you "write for film". That is a privelidge which is given to very few, including myself.

I'm having a bit of a rant, but basically, if you have never had to produce a product, on time, on budget, in 5.1 if need be, or any other format, if you're not capable of handling vision in any format, if you can't clip, edit and re-arrange at will, then your money is best spent elsewere.

Please feel free to disagree.

cheers, niteshift

Hi Marc

The thing I'm saying is clique doesn't matter. Your sending songs from every where to every where. Through the mail as a listing along with thousands of others. Nobody knows who you are or where your from and they honestly don't care. I'm not saying this about "music the community" I'm talking about Taxi or any other place like it.

I did join Taxi a few years ago not now though.
You sit at home and you put your envelopes together and send them out to the listings you feel fit you and that you pay for, period.
There is no discussion,reflection, opinion. That only comes with the critique paper you can get back if you request it when your song is turned down.
And that is all a grading system and break down of your song.

Everything is cliquish really when your around it Inside inside it and see it.

The business has become for everyone? That is nonsnse, the internet has become for everyone.

They can't give you that answer Marc cause they don't have it. THEY are not looking for your songs, they are a go between. Companies from some BIG ones to many many smaller ones including people's websites and cooperate stuff look for licensing material to use.

Nite is correct about the libraries I have the sheets, they read as follows
MUSIC LIBRARY seeking songs in the vain of - The Killers!


Then there's lots more of that, and it ain't no artist, manager, or great producer or some record label king. It's some dude in an office (maybe)who does not want to pay licensing to The Killers

My reasons for not using TAXI anymore are foremost financial. Then the second is that. Music Libraries have taken over the film TV etc.. thing.

So after you get screened, then maybe forwarded you have to get passed another person 'The Library" then on to the place who placed the add in the first place.
I was forwarded by TAXI on my third try. Probably got submitted with who knows how many other songs to that listing? But who ever talks about that? lol

I picked up on all this quite some time ago, just like I picked up on how there listing's changed. Mainly because of what I explained about the majors. They come first we all get the scraps We including Taxi.

And with all this I still like Taxi and think it's a very positive thing.
I can go into why

What's wrong with the scraps Mike. I like scraps. Waste not, want not. Let no scrap be unturned.

I just thought of a new name for a music library - "Scrapyard Music"

Sorry about the nonsense Mike; it just struck a funny bone.

Best, John

Mike,

I think we are saying the same thing. They are middle men. Pretty much everything is middle men now except the Internet. Then you still have to have some kind of middle men in the form of search engines, web sites, etc.
I was of the same opinion of Taxi for the same reason. Laskow and company seemed to be fine but it was pretty expensive, and I wasn't that concerned about Movie or television placings.

Then a very strange thing happened.

I was doing a workshop in Nashville and it mostly had young girls and guys all the writer/artist/model wanna be's. (The girls were REAL cute! I Love those.)
There was one guy in the back who clearly didn't fit in. Maybe late fifties. Just kind of sat there. About halfway through I asked everyone why they were there and who they were.i knew the woman who was sitting with him and she introduced him. It turns out he is the manager of Kenny Rogers. He told a couple of stories, and then I asked him about the Taxi contributions to "Buy Me a Rose", which is the song they make such claims on.
He said he had never heard of TAXI, and that he had heard the song when it was pitched to him by the writer with about 19 other songs. He claimed to have had the CD for months before listening to it, which he did on a long drive to Atlanta. He gave the CD to Kenny, and said that is how they got the cut.

I don't know. Taxi makes a lot of claims, and I know a lot about the industry and how things happen. I don't want to say they are lying, I am sure they probably represented the writers as well as themselves. But I do think they are taking credit for somethings that happen outside of them.

In Nashville alot of people work with a lot more people. They are all a part of the process. But I don't think any one thing creates the success of anyone. I think it is a lot of things that contribute. In this case, TAxi was probably a part, but not the only thing.

Just my opinion.

How's the neck and back Mike? Doing better?

MAB

It's okay John I like nonsense

But I like that name even better. That is cool.

By joining Taxi

A writer or whatever you are learns to become more professional and proficient.

1. Deadlines
2. Quality recordings - much too learn
3. Practice targeting
4. Gets at least something happening, pitching process
5. Learn to deal with rejection and how to improve.

Now off of TAxi completely and on to the other subject lol...

Yes the Beatles the greatest group of all time also caused havoc for all writers who aren't the artist. But it took some time, LOADS of writers and non writing artists in the 70's too.
I spotted that happening in mainstream Country a few years back as well around 2003 etc...

But isn't that part of what the industry's problem is.. They don't pay attention to history just like our Country doesn't lol. Many times History repeats itself and maybe one day it will a bit musically.
I ALWAYS talk about the band the Three Dog Night they sold more records than anybody from 1969 -1974 and had 14 straight gold records. Guess what they didn't write ANY songs.
Great songwriters had a platform and a very COOL platform. You could write/sound be like an artist without having to be greatly known for it.

Do you realize how many "singers" that were around that needed songs in the 70's?
Meanwhile all the industry 90% cares about is money they always have but they cared about music in general much more in the past. So my point is you wanna sell right? then why don't you use proven tactics like the Three Dog Night, Like Elvis, Like Michael who wrote but didn't write many of his hits either. Like the best popular music MOTOWN!

Lets say we go get Racal Flatts and all there OWN songs. Then we'll get ANYBODY who sounds as good as them which won't be hard to find (no knock to them, there very good but there not The Eagles) It's like finding another Nickelback... easy..
Let Rascal write all there own songs.. then I go around and take the very BEST one song from 14 different songwriters including you pal And give it to my band...

Guess who's getting blown off the planet? It's goodbye Rascal or whoever.

And the people say things like Oh my God I can't believe how many GREAT songs are on this CD? Wow! They are so great and so DIFFERENT isn't this the most versatile band ever? These ONGS are so different from each other. Guess Why?
We say maybe they won't have to get rid of CD"S now.
I WANT to buy this WHOLE cd not one song for 99 cents.

Maybe now the (solely songwriter can feed themselves again and we can find more work?)

Yeah I know it's not what's happening today, but it's whatever they (the biz) want to do. So it's okay that every year or two we get blasted with Boy Bands and Girl bands that don't write or play anything. That's okay for the industry to fabricate but well geez an artist has no real credit if they don't write there own stuff..

So now you have this standard? So all this dignity thing comes in too play? Give me a break. There only concern is getting caught and if anyone really cares that much. It was okay for Millie Vanilly or however you spell it lol before they got snagged. Or Ashley Simpson right?

It's okay to have The Monkees today... The people won't care! They don't care what you feed them. Only two of the Monkees cared lol.. People don't have albums to read to see that these guys AREN'T playing and the public does not care AT ALL who writes the song. Why do they love the Jonas Brothers? And Miley?

Marc - I'm rocked
My back is burning my neck is hurting, my boat is out at sea.
I need a brace I need a cane and disability.

Thanks for asking

Mike,

Sometimes I don't know if we are agreeing or dissagreeing. I think we are both on the same page. I don't really make pronouncements to what I think is right or wrong with the industry. I just comment on the way it is. That does not mean it won't change, it usually does. I just deal with what is, take care of myself and enjoy the process.
As I always say, today I had a day full of corresponding with writers and artists online, gave out some advice (I think it is good) and dealt with the day to day stuff of making a living and taking care of family and friends.
I have an artist/writer in the hunt for future success, Frankie Ballard, who has a lot of my songs in there. Everything could change for him any minute.
The day after something happens if it does, I most likely will be keeping in touch with writers online, giving advice, doing my best to help others and dealing with day to day stuff of making a living and taking care of family and friends.
Companies do care abou making money because that is what keeps them in business. There is no choice. This is not the sit around the bong pipe and wait forever until things develop 60's. This is the rapid fire, everything coming at you at the literal speed of light 21st century.
There will be winners and losers. And I imagine there will be some phenom we didn't think about or know in a year or two that gets everybody's attention and we will say "What about that?..?
We just deal with what is. We can only go forward. Chances are George and John ain't coming back so the Beatles probably won't be making a reunion tour. And Chuck Negron is a reformed drug addict, Danny Wells is in rehab and Cory Wells are, well, who knows where. (One of my ABSOLUTE favorite bands of all time also!) It's always looking ahead.

Hope that neck gets better. Watch out for those people who want to "be-head you."

MAB

Precisely. That's all it is, a learning institution. The number of placements, as opposed to woeful hopeful submissions, is in the fractions of a per cent.

But that's what they do. Weave dreams for the uninitiated.

It worked ten years ago, but times have moved on. No-one is longer going to pay their $300 to send work to a middleman ( Taxi) who sends it to another middleman ( music library ) who has it sitting there for years as one tune of the millions available.

Yeah, yeah bah humbug and all that, but just doing the calculations, in my view, they need to rethink their business model.

cheers, niteshift

nite,

It's easy to join the cynics, and to get disillusioned because of the way the music industry works.

Even if all of this were true, and it is for most people, 300$ is a damn cheap education!

I don't think the music industry representatives would waste their time on making listings and would be paying Taxi to screen for them, if they weren't real opportunities. A&r don't have time for games, that's the first lesson you come across in this industry.

You just got to have your stuff together, and be prepared for success when you get a chance. I believe there's a shot for all of us, and more than outside factors you can't influence, it depends on your inner level of high energy.

Most musicians material just aren't as great as they think it is, and most lyrics just doesn't say anything worth amplifying to the world. The level of selfconfidence is often way higher than most peoples actual abilities. They basically loose the ball, while looking at the goal

Either way, noone should put their trust in Taxi, nor any other company, but in themselves. I believe if you come with a sense of selfworth, an open mind, AND music that'll meet the demands of today - anything can happen. Taxi does provide a service worth paying 300$ for a year, I think.

I've worked in the business management industry for years, and frankly the advice available for companies aren't that good these days. The companies in the music industry are themselves targets for new 'business models' all the time. It's the same in every other industry, even universities and the sciences.

The most succesful business of later decades has been the Nokia one, where you work with altering the projected revenue curves by giving away your products and other moves, that help the companies to outrun the competition, and break through the market.

These strategies are designed to create a demand for your products. This is the new paradigm in business, since the 90ies. Companies don't look for markets these days, they aim to create them. And they are very clever in doing so.

When the demand is there, you raise the stakes slowly to an acceptable level for just breaking even. Then you start building a bunch of added values to your products, and thats where the companies are making money these days. So the prices on entry level products are basically dumped, to be able to enter/create the market demand. When you've done that, there are money.

If we think this in relation to music business, it's obvious that songwriters will loose money, as money is not made so much from products (songs), by from the additions and spin offs to the products (concerts, merchandice, ringtones, clothing lines ect.). The cost to make the products that'll create the demand, must be kept as low as possible, because it is not on the basic products money are made.

That's why it works for the companies to get full demos, and broadcast quality homedemos. To keep the development expences on the basic products down. They make their money elsewhere.

So, everyone basically fights to have choices these days, companies as well as company suppliers (songwriters), and choices do not come free. Today choices are commodities in themselves, thats why Taxi works for songwriters IMO.

Hey, perhaps I can get a job there

Hey Magne,

Yeah, I do sound like a cynic. But having studied this "business" of music in the digital age, ( or lack therof )for the last 3 yrs, I have come to the conclusion that the only folks making money are the "teachers".

Now, that's fine if you love what you do, just like having a tennis coach and playing the odd game on the weekend.

But the pitch they put out is "get your music placed in film and TV ". Common logic suggests that the supply is way greater than demand by a factor above 10,000 to 1.

I did join Taxi for a year. I submitted 10 pieces, and got 3 fowards. I'm told that's a good strike rate.

I just no longer want to pretend I'm "in the game" by having a digital certificate sent to me, and having a $300 web page, which I can't access, and another $50 spent to "submit".

If there was a hall in your local town, which opened it's doors for a musical audition, and put out a sign "Auditions Here, Come and be Famous. Cost $5 " would you pay to audition ? When the cost is born by the talent, and not the talent seeker, we all know who's laughing all the way to the bank. Alternatively, would you pay $300 for an introduction to a publisher ?

My music earnings last month were $19.26 but at least they were earnings. Nope, no more pay to play for me.

cheers, old carmudgeon niteshift

nite,

Im not trying to convert you, there's no reason to. You've been in the game, played, and pulled out even though you had a great statistic on forwards. You talk from experience.. I just hope I never get some of that crap :-)

To me, cynisism is just a personal judgement of facts. All of those things you list are facts, and that you pull out is probably a sound decision for you, if money is important. I could easily establish another valid logic, though. For each forward you don't get the call from, the chance you'll get one, increases. That's the logic of stats! And there's a million others. Personally, I never listens to the logic of my own brain.. I just don't think it's smart enough!

If you don't already know, Denmark is known as the most expensive country in the entire EU to live in, so for the money I spend on Taxi - I could get about a cheap bike instead. I could also get a chinese made Danelectro guitar, or enough beer and cigarettes for about two months worth.. except, I don't ride bikes nor care for Danelectros, smoke, and only drink an occational beer.

Frankly, I have no other use for money than to spend on food, family and music. My own engines just run on 10 cups of coffee a day, something to eat (just some cornbread, potatoes, eggs and bacon for me, thanks), and some sleep.

So, you are right of course. Your logic IS sound. To me logic just don't rank first. It used to, but I've been terribly dissapointed with that, as I found myself stressed out without joy and lost myself to work. So, these days I rank logic second after faith. Just makes me feel better.

I guess this is also how Taxi makes money off of fools like me.. but I don't have much use for money anyway, they can have it, if I just get a little sweettalk about in return. Im happy buying sweettalk.. pretty crazy, huh :-)

Hi Marc

It's not so much agreeing or disagreeing but just basically two guys talking shop.
Especially on the status of the industry and the whole music biz & public mentality and process. On all of this I agree with you but my approach and way of explaining it is very different.
When I talk about past decades of the business it is partly to realize what was great about it and what worked best. Also when I look at stuff I NEVER think from one perspective or one location. And that's probably mostly due from so much time and experience of wearing so many hats (literally) and being in different positions.

Ya know one guys says "computers and technology now are the greatest thing to happen for recording, recording studio's and the industry. We can work at home etc...
The other guys says - "yeah my recording studio made a third of what it did last year. I can't afford to stay open. Chapter 11.. This really sucks!

I am both those guys and about five others as well.

Anyhow...

The original point was about Taxi not about Nashville. Taxi, the people who join Taxi the people who put adds in with Taxi none of them care about where we are from. They just don't, no way no how. It is totally irrelevant.

So the whole neighboring theory is out the window and that is a good thing for the members that join. It all makes sense.
Your sticking songs in an envelope to complete strangers that go to other complete strangers it will always be complete strangers,listings change all the time.

You NEVER meet the guy who put the add in... Maybe if he pays or signs you for something....

-----------------------------

Nite & Magne

How many people do you get to send your material to each month?

Taxi is just more people.... If you got something cool happening, in the works,your close to something,your establishing a relationship with some insiders etc.. Great!
Then you have no need at the moment for Taxi or any place else.

WHO - I am thinking about is EVERYBODY! And 80% of everybody is working some OTHER job. Sitting at home dreaming with there music collecting dust and doing nothing!

So when somebody asks me "Is Taxi worthwhile? etc. I ask first WHO else are you submitting your material to? Oh nobody really! then why the heck are you asking? lol...

FACT - Most people who ask about TAXI really have NO where or anybody else to send there material. Nothing substantial. I just KNOW it! Why else are you looking at adds? Any one chasing these dreams gets a massive blast of desperation. Taxi not only sounds like a logical solution it can be a logical solution. Especially to LEARN!

All The Best.

Hey Sub,

Yeah, I agree about the learning part. But you can do that for free just by joining the Taxi forum. You'll soon see through peer review, exactly where you stand.

The listings currently, are really just not substantial.

Add to that, that you need a catalouge of finished material, maybe 50 songs/tracks/stings/trailers/play-offs to be able to nail the listings, then maybe be fowarded, then maybe being listened to, it's just too much of a long shot to be bothered.

I tried it, and it was Ok. It's really only of any use to somone who is prolific, and throws out great quality stuff by the truckload.

Me ? I'm lucky to throw out 6-8 tunes a year. LOL

If anyone thinks it's a criticism of Taxi, it's not. But man, ya really gotta be doing the stuff. And if you're already doing it, you're already there.

cheers, niteshift

Mike,

You are right. They don't care where you come from. However Nashville is a very relationship driven town, which is what the meeting in Nashville was about. People are constantly asking them about getting placements in Nashville and wondering whether it is worth it for the money.

They also have a bit of trouble on the West coast as well since most of the major film and television placements are through music directors themselves who also go to THEIR friend's, for instance, Pixar is going to go to Randy Newman, long before they go to any outside source.

A friend of mine lives across the street from me. He is a major producer for Disney and does projects in LA, New York and Canada. Produces people like Miley Cyrus and other special movie and television projects. He is of the same mindset on material and wouldn't even consider things from someone like TAXI because he has a cadre of friends and personal relationships that he has built up over the years he works with.

So while it is true it doesn't matter where you are from, it does matter the access you have and that takes knowing people and having them know you. So it goes back to relationships no matter how you slice it.

My contention is that far too many people look at any plugger, pitching source, avenue, etc. as the end all on everything, and I simply don't believe that is so. I don't suggest that people drop all things like TAXI, but I do suggest they invest in time and effort into establishing relationships of all kinds. If they are going to do this, I suggest they explore all the various avenues that the pros use. That is the playing field.

MAB

If you do the math, any success is good success. TAXI has access, but the ones using TAXI to source material are still only going to take what they believe in. It comes down to the song, not the A&R.

If you have great stuff, TAXI might get you to the dance. If you have pretty good stuff, TAXI can't magically make it a hit.

No matter what you do or where you are...it's all like prospecting for gold. There ain't no sure thing.

Just as you speak here is the new email from Taxi today....... Maybe this will help some.

When is a Deal Not a Deal?

Dear Passengers,

I got the email below in response to my recent lament about TAXI members not reporting their deals often enough. It was forwarded to me by one of my staffers yesterday. I'm writing this on the weekend, so I haven't asked for permission to reprint this with the member's full name. That said, his point is interesting, and I wondered if other people shared his perspective.
=====================================
Hi Michael,

I thought you would like to see this e-mail, as he makes an excellent point of why some members may not understand what constitutes a "deal."
Warm Regards,
~David
------ Forwarded Message
From: <********@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:48:11 +0000 (UTC)
To: Music News
Subject: Re: 121.9 Reasons TAXI's CEO is Ticked Off at...

Hi Michael,

I wonder if part of the reason (true in my own case) you're not hearing about member deals is confusion about the meaning of the word "deal".

I always took the word "deal" to mean an actual income-producing event arising out of a relationship spawned through Taxi, not simply signing with a company.

In my case, I've signed with four companies as a result of Taxi forwards. Three of those signings are fairly recent, and to date I've had only one significant income-producing event: a section of my music was used in a trailer for the film "Elizabeth: The Golden Age." (The payment more than made up for several years of Taxi dues and submission fees.)

Anyway, I don't know for sure if semantic confusion is to blame for the lack of reporting, or if members are either too busy, too disorganized, or just inconsiderate. But if you want to be kept abreast of company signings in addition to actual income-producing events that resulted from the signings, it might be useful to spell that out.

Thanks, and with appreciation,

Richard ******

Wow! I'm Kind of Amazed!

First, let me say that I'm grateful that Richard sent me this email. Second, I'm happy to hear that he's had several recent signings, including one from which, "The payment more than made up for several years of Taxi dues and submission fees."

But I'm Also a Little Confused...

So, when I get an email like this from one of the publishers who finds songwriters and composers through TAXI, is it not fair and accurate to say that they've signed deals?

The Publisher's email:

Fri., Aug. 7th, 2009 2:24PM

Hi Michael,

To follow up on my previous email to you, here are some Taxi member signings by (company name not disclosed to spare them 160,000 emails).
David Kraut (one song -- just last week)
Brad Callahan (five songs -- just last week)
A.J. Yuill (one song several months ago)
Marc Kuchner (four songs over a one year period. Two artist placements)
Tim Wheeler (three songs three months ago)
Gene Reynolds (several songs over the past year. One artist placement)
Shelley Jacobson (several songs. Placement on The Mentalist)
Forgive me if one or two of the above are not Taxi members. Between listening to a song and signing it, enough time has usually gone by that remembering where it came from can be difficult. And the "memory hole" gets ever wider as even more time goes by.

Thanks,

****

So, When is a Deal Not a Deal?

My definition of "deal" is when somebody puts pen to paper and signs the deal. Some deals might give you an advance upon signing (not very often these days), all deals should pay you when the music is used, and both are "deals."

Thank you to Richard for giving me the heads up that everybody might not define the word "deal" the same way I do.

Thank you to the companies and the members who tell us when they sign deals.

If you're reading this and have signed a deal, but have been confused about the definition of the word and haven't updated us yet, please let us know!

Click here to see a ton of our members who are signing deals and making money with their music!

You can quit watching the money train pass you by with other artists and songwriters on it and join TAXI now. Remember the guy who got a recent placement with a borrowed ukulele and only two chords?

Start simply, learn what the industry is looking for, sign some deals and make some money. You probably won't get rich quick, but Richard did pay for several years of TAXI membership and submission fees with just one placement in a trailer.

It's a lot easier to get a deal if you're a member. Just click that big blue button and get started!

Talk to you soon,
Michael


© TAXI 2009

So if it was say, 3 yrs, that's $700, and he was one of the very very lucky ones who got his money back. Wonder if it paid interest ?

And I wonder what the other 99.9% of folks, who didn't get placements, got in return over that 3 yr period.

cheers, niteshift

I don't think Taxi has to show up a lot of Billboard 'hits'. If you are at that level, you have probably had songs with independent artists as well as placement in tv/ films for years, unless you just expect to be lucky in the 'lottery game'.

For me Taxi is more a part of the marketing budget, as well as a convenient way of getting my music across to the industry.

As a songwriter only, who does not perform and need to get 'fans', it saves me a lot of time to be able to submit music online. That way, I can hit the listings with what i got, and just single out a couple of publishers (from the tip sheets) to hit on the side by snail mail - and then move on to the next song. One afternoon and the marketing is done!

Of course pitching is not over by doing that, but I stage these events in 'rounds' of pitching, and that helps me to be systematic about it, as I can do 'rounds' like that 3-4 times a year pr. song. That way my songs are constantly in the 'luv'. Of course, if nothing happens in 10 years after doing this, I will reconsider, but there are a lot of variables why someone succeeds/does not succeed, as well as the very definition of success - not just the statistics of Taxi.

The pitching opportunities at SongU works the same for me. They both help me focus on making music by being convenient, as well as providing serious opportunities for continuous outlet, and of course I can use the learning too. I've never heard anything happen to songs that's just parked on websites for people to hear.

The Billboard charts is of course the songwriters 'mekka' in terms of number of people listening to your music and monetary return on your efforts, but I think some pilgrimages is required before making it a home :-)

But really, we can't complain not getting Billboard 'hits', even though we try hard. Those are for the very few..

Humans are a strange breed when it comes to spending money. They have their priorities.

I know people that spend over two grand on cigarettes a year (and double that on beer and booze). People drop a hundred a week on fast food, and think nothing of spending a grand a year on lottery tickets (talk about odds).

Anyway, my point is that TAXI is a very inexpensive treat to give oneself. And a delightful treat it is.

Best, John

John has a great point.

I've been a member of TAXI for a decade now. I've had a number of forwards but no deals. Every time renewal comes due, I agonize on whether it is worth it.

Incidentally, I have NEVER paid $300 for a year membership. They are always offering deals for first time members, if you look around. Renewals are much cheaper, and even cheaper still if you renew for more than one year at a time. $150 a year is what I typically pay.

So I agonize whether to keep paying $150/year when I'm not getting any deals. But I have continued to renew. Why? Mostly because I need the feedback and TAXI has been giving me the best and most credible feedback on the things that I feel need the most improvement at the most reasonable cost. I was an NSAI member (also $150/year) for a number of years and when I was having trouble with lyrics NSAI gave me the best feedback. But most of my critiques the past couple years have said little about song craftsmanship and have commented mostly on recording quality, production choices, and marketing direction. NSAI, which is mostly country, hasn't been giving me good feedback in those regards, since I am mostly alternative pop rock and could care less about country. I haven't found anything else that is close.

I love writing and playing music. I am not going to move to Nashville, LA, or NYC. So what else can I do to get my stuff heard and get feedback I can trust? I've tried posting on internet critique boards, local NSAI meetings, song camps and seminars and symposiums and such (I've been to so many Seskin and Pattison seminars that they are all repeats now and I could probably teach their classes for them), private consulting sessions with recognized industry pros, etc. TAXI seems to give me the most bang for the buck, at least for where I am now musically.

For someone else, this may not be true. If you are a beginner, I would probably not recommend TAXI. I think NSAI is probably best for beginners even if you aren't country, and may be your best bet if you are country no matter your skill level (if you could only choose one).

But if you seriously want to improve, you need honest, trusted feedback on your stuff. Friends and other musicians don't cut it. There is too much mutual admiration society stuff involved. Even local press tends to be too kind to local musicians and is probably not frequent enough. And if you aren't making a serious effort to improve, you are just treading water and anything that happens is just pure luck.

Besides, what else am I going to spend the money on? I already have more than enough guitars, amplifiers, bicycles, kayaks, camping gear, etc. I probably don't need too many more banana splits. I'd rather spend my "mad" money on something that helps me musically (a reason for justifying all the out of town music seminars and conferences I've been to).

I just sent in my 2-year TAXI renewal yesterday. Honestly...in my first two years, I've submitted twice. (Actually, the same song twice.) Sad, I know. I received some great feedback, and it made me realize I wasn't as ready as I thought I was. I probably shouldn't have joined quite yet.

However, I think I'm ready to hit this head-on now, so the renewal decision was easy. Even if I never get a forward, it's a self-motivating factor. I've put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, so I've got to get my money's worth out of myself.

Like Andy said, I've never paid more than $150 / year (just paid $299 for 2-year renewal, and that was intro deal I took also). Submissions are only $5, and nearly all come with critiques...so assuming you submit more than my two measley songs, you can get your money's worth pretty quickly. If you get a deal...all the better. I'm just looking to be a better writer at this point.

- JP

I just renewed, been a member for 5 years, made umpteen submissions, had umpteen returns... but more recently I have begun to sign music with publishers and libraries. The Rally is worth the price of a membership... and the connections I've made, the things I've learned, how my music improved, and how I've been challenged... these are all reasons I feel a membership is valuable to me. I'd give up cable (which costs me $420 a year) before I'd give up TAXI. I'd be the first to say it's not for everyone. Like John, I joined too soon... but studying at "TAXI U" was a worthwhile investment for me.

from a noob

I believe great talent meeting opportunity can still leapfrog the entire industry even with a pedestrian song.
As proof I offer my Canadian countryman Dave Carroll who wrote the "United breaks guitars" hit on youtube that has reached almost 5 million hits to date. Millions are now waiting for video number two because he offered the best marketing in the world. A story well told with more to come.
Pure genius.
Sam

Get yourself on Fox News, CNN, all the talk and news shows and you can get all kinds of press. Ask Susan Boyle. 278 million hits. But that does not always transfer into sales.
Rubean Stoddard and Taylor Hicks were seen by 100 million people over two and a half months. Neither sold more than 350,000 units. Break even point on a National release is 680,000 units.

Great to get press. Great to get views. Doesn't always translate into sales.

MAB

My co-writer belongs to TAXI. I've read the reviews of his solo writes and our co-writes...and, honestly, I don't think they give anywhere near the insight on improvement as those given by "unknown" writers/critiquers here on JPF. FREE advice as opposed to $300 a year plus demo submittal fees.

Give me a few minutes to ponder this difficult choice between reviewers...

I've read this thread with interest. Like eveyone else, it was time to renew the membership, and I had to look closely at where I was going to spend resources.

For me, I'm not prolific enough to justify the expense. Also, there are other sites which give concrete oppertunities, with no sign up fee.

Example ; www.musicdealers.com has a number of listings, here's prevous listings, and those artists that placed work.

Animated Film Feature Sony Pictures Jul 27 2009 $2500 FILM
Due Date:
07/27/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Animated Film Feature
Music Call: Smooth jazz with a sax lead or solo - upbeat, not sexy

Genre: Smooth Jazz

Vocals: No

Client: Sony Pictures

Payment: $2,500

Use: Film

Due Date: July 27, 2009

Other: N/A
winning artist: Darren Rahn

winning song: Tale Of Two Cities

details Latin Pop Music Needed Confidential Jul 9 2009 $7500 TV / RADIO
Due Date:
07/09/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Latin Pop Music Needed
Music Call: Track must be "dancey" and have a modern sound. This might include a song with a rock twist or a reggaeton track etc. Something new, fresh and modern with a Latin twist. The track must have vocals and must be in Spanish. No foul language or profanity.

Genre: Latin Pop (could include rock, reggaeton or other modern elements)

Vocals: Yes (Spanish)

Client: Confidential

Payment: $7,500

Use: TV/Radio

Due Date: July 09, 2009

Other: Must come from an artist or a band - No producer teams. There is an opportunity outside of just the synch placement for the group and/or the band/artist's name to potentially be featured in the actual spot. The self-promotion opportunity could be huge for this one!

winning artist: el Tambor de la Tribu

winning song: Watch It

details Surgeon's Online Video Blog Private Neurology Hospital Jun 24 2009 $75 WEB
Due Date:
06/24/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Surgeon's Online Video Blog
Music Call: Surgeon seeking background music for informative patient video blog

Genre: Easy Listening

Vocals: No

Client: Private Neurology Hospital

Payment: $75

Use: Web

Due Date: June 24, 2009

Other Notes: This job had a total budget of $500 (3 songs) which is far below our usual standard, however, because this project was small, purely a web usage and directed towards educating and helping people in need, we contacted the artists and asked for permission to use their music at a lesser fee. The video was fully serviced in-house, both music and video editing.

winning artist: JD Feighner

winning song: Wavy Baby

details Surgeon's Online Video Blog Private Neurology Hospital Jun 24 2009 $75 WEB
Due Date:
06/24/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Surgeon's Online Video Blog
Music Call: Surgeon seeking background music for informative patient video blog

Genre: Easy Listening

Vocals: No

Client: Private Neurology Hospital

Payment: $75

Use: Web

Due Date: June 24, 2009

Other Notes: This job had a total budget of $250 (3 songs) which is far below our usual standard, however, because this project was small, purely a web usage and directed towards educating and helping people in need, we contacted the artists and asked for permission to use their music at a lesser fee. The video was fully serviced in-house, both music and video editing.
winning artist: Lee Miller

winning song: Christmas In Ireland

details Surgeon's Online Video Blog Private Neurology Hospital Jun 24 2009 $100 WEB
Due Date:
06/24/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Surgeon's Online Video Blog
Music Call: Surgeon seeking background music for informative patient video blog

Genre: Easy Listening

Vocals: No

Client: Private Neurology Hospital

Payment: $100

Use: Web

Due Date: June 24, 2009

Other Notes: This job had a total budget of $250 (3 songs) which is far below our usual standard, however, because this project was small, purely a web usage and directed towards educating and helping people in need, we contacted the artists and asked for permission to use their music at a lesser fee. The video was fully serviced in-house, both music and video editing.
winning artist: DasUNO

winning song: Custom- Hospital, Surgeon's Theme

details Blues Track Needed for Indie Film Dinosaurs of the Future Jun 10 2009 $2500 FILM
Due Date:
06/10/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Blues Track Needed for Indie Film
Music Call: Very slow, very "grimey" sounding blues instrumental - Harmonica is a must. Think smokey bar and broken hearts.

Genre: Blues

Vocals: No

Client: Dinosaurs of the Future

Payment: $2500

Use: Film - "The Providence Effect"

Due Date: June 10, 2009

Other Notes: N/A

winning artist: Michael Mazochi

winning song: toby's blues (instrumental)

details Financial Company Edward Jones May 19 2009 $1000 WEB
Due Date:
05/19/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Financial Company
Music Call: Uplifting instrumental music.

Genre: Blues

Vocals: No

Client: Dinosaurs of the Future

Payment: $2500

Use: Film - "The Providence Effect"

Due Date: June 10, 2009

Other Notes: N/A

winning artist: Peter Wallevik / Loadstar

winning song: Beginning

details Potato Inspector Heinz / Ore Ida May 11 2009 $1000 WEB
Due Date:
05/11/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Potato Inspector
Music Call: Consumer Packaged Goods company seeking 2 pieces of music for online testing. One song should be whimsical with a definite aim towards children while the other song should be a bit more family oriented. Both songs should be light and positive.

Genre: Pop / Childrens

Vocals: No

Client: Heinz / Ore-Ida

Payment: $1000

Use: Web

Due Date: May 11, 2009

Other Notes: N/A



winning artist: Heather Fenoughty

winning song: Cat after Mouse

details Getting Creative Heinz / Ore Ida May 11 2009 $1000 WEB
Due Date:
05/11/09

niteshift
Submit existing song
Submit new song
Getting Creative
Music Call: Consumer Packaged Goods company seeking 2 pieces of music for online testing. One song should be whimsical with a definite aim towards children while the other song should be a bit more family oriented. Both songs should be light and positive.

Genre: Pop / Childrens

Vocals: No

Client: Heinz / Ore-Ida

Payment: $1000

Use: Web

Due Date: May 11, 2009

Other Notes: N/A

winning artist: Gription Music Productions

winning song: Blueberry

details A New Opportunity from Music Dealers! Music Dealers May 6 2009 $500 WEB



So, there are quite a few companies out there, eg audioicro, youlicence, songcatalouge, which place directly into media. Taxi appears, more and more, to be a middleman for middlemen.

As for critiques, the best critique I've had was from Bill Renfrew at www.writethismusic.com . Cost = $5. It was solid, comprehensive, on topic, and actually usefull in progessing the song further.

So, it's all about options. If you can go to the Road Rally, then a Taxi membership pays for itself. If not, there are many other options which may be more suited to personal circumstance.

cheers, niteshift

and your point is?

Look, compare, contrast, listen.

cheers, niteshift

Marc
that was my point; unless you were trying to punch out a noob. If you were you picked on the wrong guy:-)) but I digress.
Dave Carroll did not get himself ON anything, his actions and subsequent story did. Idiots on American Idol are not a story so why would they sell merchandise beyond telephone toll fees. If you want to equate success with sales using past idols to make your point; then explain Carrie Underwood, besides her obvious looks.
You failed to point out that you still need big talent to stay on top once you escape the zoo and pathetic contracts Idol makes the gullible kids sign.
My point was that Dave Carroll made himself David vs Goliath (United) by brilliantly creating lemonade from lemons when an opportunity presented itself. For you to equate the pr machine that pushes mainstream artists, bought and paid for by the labels to someone who pulled with a simple story for free is disengenuous at best; envious at worst.
Mr Carroll is fielding performance opportunities around the world and increased fees precisely because he proved you can fight back. Would you not have done the same under similar circumstances? That's what I thought.
Having promised two more videos to come on youtube this story will percolate for quite a while.
So you know; when he performs the United Breaks Guitars song almost everyone knows the lyrics. Can you do that; because that for an artist is priceless.
I have nothing to do with Mr Carroll. Jes sayin
Sam Dentoff

Marc. furthermore
re Susan Boyle.
the only reason 278 million hits on YouTube didn't translate to "sales" is that Google still haven't figured out how to properly monetize YouTube. The Idol/Talent people made plenty by increasing the value of their brand. Not Susan Boyle's fault there was no product to sell. It was an anomaly for the same reason Dave Carroll was. The net made them; not some flack PR firm. The little engine that could did. They both busted the man right in the balls. And people cheer for that just like they cheer the car wreck she became in the weeks that followed. If you check Mr Carrolls youtube video on the offer United made for him to "go away" you'll see he told them to stuff it. that would have been a sell out. No dummy he. Best of all, he got even because of a song. Can you even wrap your head around that? And the song sure isn't blowin in the wind yet he showed you can fight back and change things with creativity. That in itself is amazing and you should applaud that rather than take the guy down for being brilliant. Course it could just be a Canadian thing... Eh. :-)))

jes sayin
Sam Dentoff

Thank you for that. It is all word of mouth. I'm going to try musicdealers based on what i read here because I trust that far more than an ad that pushes rather than pulls. So maybe the previous poster is right. It is about neibourhoods (canuck spelling :-)
Sam Dentoff

Given to exaggeration are we??? lol

I don't know the lyrics to his song!!!

Looks like a good one, nite. Will check them out, Thanks!

I think Taxi is not for the established top writers with a bunch of contacts in the industry. Why would they visit a middleman?

It not for the beginner either, unless you are eager to learn the blues :-)

Taxi is mostly for those who have some songs to pitch, and for musicians who are able to produce broadcast quality music fast in their homestudio or whereever, to place in tv/films. And for homebodys like me, who live in a musically crippled part of the world and doesn't get out much

Musicdealers have some listings, but you either have to have a portfolio or be able to produce very fast, to make their listings. And the music they want, mostly has to sound like the genres you hear on music television.

I'd say 99% of the folks I know who have deals through TAXI are writing for film/tv. They have tracks signed to music publishers & music libraries (the 'middle men' as some have posted), but several of my friends, because of their skills and abilities, have also become 'go to composers', and in some cases, have been hired to compose for specific projects. Some make a few hundred a year, some make a few thousand, all are building their cataloques, signing multi-track deals, and working for hire. A few also score films. They are highly intelligent and creative people with a lot of drive, and I think they would likely be successful whatever way they went at it... but they were all members of TAXI when I met them, and they all continue to be members. But they've figured out how to compose and produce music that the industry desires according to the industry's specifications, and their success speaks for itself. They are my role models.

Sam,

You know it gets a little tiring to listen to a bunch of people always tell me what I am saying. Are you in the music business? Have you sold product? Have you had to deal with distributors, critiques, record labels, publishing, deadlines, A&R people, mainstream radio, political nature of a very fickle business? Well I do.
People in the industry continually hear people outside the business talk about things they have very little dealings with. I don't know you. You have your opinions. I made no aspersions on Dave whomever. I thought it was very cool and applaud his tirade against the airline industry and his inventivness. I am happy he is getting attention.
I am making a comment that very few people are actually making money.There are thousands of people that post videos every day. It is a great deal of difference in getting some attention for a very short period and making real money or having longevity in a buiness that caters to people who's attention spans don't remember what was going on thirty minutes ago, much less what was happening a few weeks ago.
There is one major way to make money in the music industry. That is through mainstream radio success. If that were not true, major labels, would not spend most of their budgets trying to get people on mainstream radio. It is the only way to have longevity (which for this day and age, your friend might have had about the longest run he is going to have.)
I wish anyone well who is trying to do this. I am only trying to point out some elemental truths. One of them is that we are dealing in a generation of people that think all music, all books, all magazines, all entertainment, should be free. Money is now dissapated through a HUGE amount of people all doing the same thing.
And you can deride me all you want to. The real world is different. It is about product sales. And getting press in a flash and then dissapearing does not always translate into sales. I hope this guy does well. I really do. But you have to look at the whole picture. Just because you don't like that picture, doesn't mean you can ignore it.

MAB

Marc
What in God's name does what I do or who I am or what I've done or sold or not sold have to do with the point I made about how Mr Carroll was all about the story. You are throwing a hissy fit because someone challenged you on the following which is what you wrote.

"Get yourself on Fox News, CNN, all the talk and news shows and you can get all kinds of press. Ask Susan Boyle. 278 million hits. But that does not always transfer into sales.
Great to get press. Great to get views. Doesn't always translate into sales."
That is a specific comment that reeks of envy because it didn't happen to you. He's leapfrogging you through sheer creativity and talent while you slog away on the old model that obviously isn't working or you wouldn't have to post 800 long winded posts (and counting) about Nashville Nashville Nashville.

You are obviously coming from a Nashvillecentric point of view with a specific model for success IE if it doesn't sell it can't be good. Do you really believe the world only revolves around Nashville. Attacking the messenger for tweaking your nose speaks volumes.
Whom the Gods would destroy they first oversell.
Sam

Hi Guys and Gals:

Well, at the risk of being "chastized" again... the only Taxi I'm taking will be one of those yellow things being driven by someone who likes to drive like a bat from Hell. I can do my own pitching and use the $300 bucks for postage... as the price of postage continues to rise... LOL!

Marc... why is it that we keep reading about the "dire straits" the radio world has entered lately? Almost every blogger who dabbles in that arena seems to be saying that the iPod has killed Radio. I sure don't listen very often to Radio any more. Too many commercials and music from la la land. Then there's the plight of the newspapers... being killed by the internet and bloggers.

I wish my crystal ball was not quite so hazy... it sure makes it difficult to predict where we are headed media wise. You are absolutely correct on the "free music" attitude... and that does not bode well for any of us.

Best,

Dave

Unless it's solicited Dave, I think mailings are a waste of time and money.

The only times I send a package out in the mail is when it's requested, or I give them a phone call first, to okay it. Otherwise, no.

John

Hi John in the Cage: (LOL!)

You are absolutely right. No I don't send or "broadcast" my work through the mail to unknown folks in the Songwriter's Market. That's a real "crap shoot." I only send songs to publishers, artists and producers who participate in my inner circle... and fortunately, most of that is done via the net. (Yippee... no postage!)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this thread. I have a great deal of interest in what you bring to JPF, my friend. That goes for Colin and Marc, also. Ya' gotta enjoy all the viewpoints, opinions and ideas here.

Best,

Dave Rice

http://www.ShowCaseYourMusic.com/DaveRice

Last night I had a guy at the studio he was finishing his song. He is an older gentlemen in his 70's who now has the time and money to focus on his music.
He has recorded one song that is very traditional like and in the vain of say "On The Road Again" But even mellower, small band with accordion and 2 vocal part.

He said to me I'm thinking of joining Taxi.. what do you think?

Now I know this guys "knows better" he's not a star struck kid. But STILL he has thoughts in his head of hearing his song done by a big star on the radio. How do I know? Please lol... We ALL do! But I have discussions with him during sessions so i know what he's thinking.

I told him -
1 - First you have only this one song recorded and Taxi will send you listings sheet. Your first job is to look through it and see if anything in your catalog matches at all with any of the listings. You have one song, that's not good you may not find a match for quite some time. You really should have a little bigger catalog.

2- Your song is nothing like what is on the radio today, not even close. He agreed.
And even if it was Keith Urban ,Taylor Swift and George Strait are not getting songs from Taxi, They are not "looking for songs" they have people that are sitting right next to them right now as we speak with songs to show them. Loads of inside people to go to. Besides who writes there own etc... Okay so now he gets that idea into perspective, go play lotto.

3- Many of the listings are for film/tv but through music libraries. It's always "Music Library seeks -
And 90% of the time it's to be a sound alike of a current band or artist. A few years ago i remember clearly it was - "In the style of Modest Mouse, Hoobastank etc...
His song is very dated and or traditional, you have just pinned yourself into a corner
You have one song, and it's in a style very few to no one is looking for.

A broader as well as a bigger catalog would be much better for you. But you write what you write so there... however collaborating can help you GREATLY there.
For example - look at all the collabs here. People with similar to very different backgrounds hook up and create a new tune and product. So you really DON"T have to be pinned in the corner completely. Look at a collab with Mark Kaufman & Couchgrouch, or Wendy D and Tom Franz, Niteshift & Letha etc.. etc...

Now that catalog of STYLE has just expanded.

4- Good point - Your song could find it's way into a film situation directed towards it's set style. And now we have a Broadcast Quality Recording which is a 90% MUST for Taxi.
-------------------

You know folks you can put in a 125% in this craft & business and get basically no where.
If you put in 25% to 50% your pretty much guaranteed to get nowhere. Then you get the wonderful feeling of blaming yourself.

Taxi is not for everyone and in my professional judgement my friend is NOT ready to join. But he said he would anyway... Why?

He said to me exactly what I said here two days ago... WHAT ELSE am I doing to do with my songs?

There is so much talent that never gets "discovered" due to the overwhelming number of people all trying for the same brass ring.
You've seen those toothpick holders shaped like a little bottle..when you turn it upside down all the toothpicks fall toward the neck but only one or two will come out at a time. I sometimes think of songwriters all trying to go through the same opening but are crowded out by the "toothpicks" that got there first. There are only so many spots on an album, so many spots on the charts and so many spots on a radio playlist. Many wonderful songs get rejected every year for reasons that have little to do with the actual quality of the writing or production.

Mike, you gave that gentlemen some excellent advice. One non-commercial song (no matter how well recorded), 99.99% of the time is going to bring in $0.

In order to be successful in film/tv, you need to have a large cataloque of broadcast quality tracks. One track doesn't cut it.

A song that doesn't sound anything like what's on the radio has virtually no chance of being signed. Heck, we have writers right on this forum who have great songs who have trouble pitching them.

You have to ask the question - why are you writing music? What makes you think that your song is going to get through the many gatekeepers who screen music, be put on hold, be on the short list, be one of the few of 5,000 or so songs considered that is actually recorded, and then make it on the CD, which is successfully released and gets on the charts? On a CD with 15 or 18 songs, most of which are written by the artist? What are the chances?

I'm all for believing in dreams but I'm also all for getting educated about the business and understanding how to compose/produce, market/network effectively to build relationships and grow your chances of success in a very competitive industry in a huge state of flux.

I think you gave very good advice, Mike. Currently there are more country listings on SongU, than there are on Taxi, no bs.

I joined Taxi primarily because I have the ambition to produce pop/rock tracks for tv/film, believe I can do so in my homestudio, and are working on that every week. Most listings are for people who can do just that. I might have joined too early too, but I can use the feedback from them to improve. Anyway, anyone can see the listings on the Taxi website for themselves here: http://www.taxi.com/industry.php

Any advice out here in wannabe land, states that pitching for country artists is better done with a subscription on Rowfax, rubbing the bone & sending snail mails, using a songplugger in Nashville and ultimately, get there yourself. I think even SongU is a better shot at that.

This says it all.....

Magne

About seven years ago myself and friends/co-writers were doing our thing,
Now even though I have written different kinds of songs, and did session work etc...
And had been recording and producing my own stuff for about 15 years at that point.
I still come from a BAND background. So does most of my friends. I mean way back,
I started my first band when I was nine years old.

So as soon as we started working we could already play and play pretty darn well.
We could record and produce ourselves and only needed to hire a few singers to fit certain songs.

As songwriters shopping songs we realized that 80% of what we did sounded like we were the artist or band it was band orientated. And since bands and artist singer/songwriters don't do ANYONES music but there own we were pinned into a corner.

So I started thinking back then, we are too old to be signed with a band.. We can't compete with the top 10 because it is 90% Hip Hop/Rap 5% POP Country and 5% Rock Bands. Even if we could easily humiliate more than half of them in any studio or any room with any musical instruments in it. It means nothing to the public or the business. We are OUT

So I switched my focus onto my recording & producing skills a little bit more.
I always go round & round with the various things I can do anyway.. but now we would have recordings that could stand up on there own. And our place was FILM, TV etc... That was our goal starting around 2003. So we joined TAXI and a few other things.

By 2005 we landed 4 of our songs into one movie... AS IS
We were building a strong diverse catalog and the thing was not write a 100 songs it was write one or two really cool ones... play them really well, produce them well,record them well, master them and pitch em were we could.
In 2005 we had a song ALMOST land with a band signed to a major major label.
They were reluctant because BANDS don't do outside material.. but our connection was very strong and would have sealed the deal... God rest his soul.

But the idea is this.. i wrote this song we put it through all those steps I just mentioned. It was a DEMO and the one that this producer/manager & band heard. We were far better from top to bottom than the signed band was that was considering it. But more imporatntly they were YOUNG.
Our version landed in the movie anyway....

So by working this way we covered ALL BASES!
This angle would be good to cover on the demo thread about basic demo's,rough demo's etc...

Sounds like your moving into this same direction,very cool very smart. Still tough but hey what isn't?

Mike, it's really fun for me to read about your trajectory. You've been blessed with great talent and some opportunities to do some great session work! Hopefully you can now concentrate to write some great songs..

I started playing guitar and writing songs at 16 (Im 39 now). I did play in a couple of bands, blues, pop/rock and a jazz combo playing standards for dinners - but my heros was the session musicians. Studies took those time and opportunities away, though, providing others.

So, I was already writing and playing, and when I realized that it was possible to build a homestudio and produce broadcast quality music myself, I started educating myself in the tech stuff.

These days Im almost there, working on music everyday, just hoping for the muse to be generous. Still feel I need 10-20% to reach broadcast quality, but any day now. I think the Taxi experience will give that.

So, at this point, I bet on both the writing for artists, as well as working up the chops for getting music in tv/film. I love both things, as I like the versatility from playing different stuff.

Hi Vikki,

Brian Whitney kindly alerted me to this thread this morning. You know me personally and therefore know how many hours I work and why it's nearly impossible for me to get involved in ongoing forum discussions - even our on our own forum. So, would you please do me a favor and post this on the JPF thread? And please relay my sincere regret at not having the time to answer each and every post, thought or opinion on the thread. Actually, feel free to post this note :-)

Thanks!
Michael
************************************************************
Hi everybody,

First, let me express my deep appreciation to those of you have posted the truth. Truth is good :-)

I'm always curious when these threads pop up that nobody ever refers to the TAXI website or the TAXI forums as a way to show what IS true. The very first thing they would see in our brochure and on our about page would be:

"The Best Way To Get Signed
If you're trying to land a record deal, nothing works better than hitting the road, playing hundreds of gigs, and selling thousands of CDs from the trunk of your car. If you're a songwriter, moving to Los Angeles, New York, or Nashville and 'paying your dues' is often the best way to go." Click here to see the entire page - http://www.taxi.com/about.html

My staff is trained to "Never sell a membership to anyone who shouldn't have one." The gentleman who only has one song would be a great example of somebody my staff would gently try to discourage from joining. He might not a get a lot of value from TAXI.

Then again, a really big part of what we do is help D writers get to C, and Cs get to Bs, and finally, get the Bs to As so they're ready to GET deals and be in position to make money with their music.

We provide motivation, structure, expert feedback, REAL opportunities, community and a convention that by most assessments sets the pace for all others to follow.

It's true that ninety-some percent of our deals and income generated for our members is in the Film and TV market. We were WAY ahead of the curve on getting Indie musicians in to that market. We've been doing it since 1992, and now virtually everybody us is following us because they see what we saw nearly 18 years ago.

Illegal downloading has nearly killed the record industry. Opportunities for existing hit songwriters have dramatically dried up. How many of the hyper-talented songwriters who live in Nashville, network well, pound pavement, have pluggers or publishing deals have songs on the Billboard charts every year. Every FIVE years?

Marc Alan Barnette is a pro writer lives and works there and is extremely active in the Nashville songwriting community, right? He's a good guy. He is active with NSAI. He teaches songwriting and collaborates often, right? He's doing all the right stuff and presumably knows all the right people, and is very much 'boots on the ground.'

Marc, would you please tell the folks reading this when you had your last song hit a Billboard chart? And I don't mean that in ANY untoward way! I'm just trying to show what the odds are and what the frequency of success are like in reality land.

The two TAXI-generated publishing deals that led to Country cuts, and ultimately two #1 Hits were both for writers who lived elsewhere. Buy Me a Rose came about as the result of the writers (Erik Hickenlooper and Jim Funk) meeting a publisher at our convention, the Road Rally. Elliots Park's #1, I Loved Her First, resulted from me taking his material to Nashville, getting him a ton of meetings with publishers, signing a deal, leading to a co-write with Walt Aldridge, and the rest, as they say, is history.

It's not likely that either of those hits would have happened without TAXI connections, as the writers lived in Ogden, UT and Clyde, TX respectively and had zero experience or contacts in Nashville (to the best of my knowledge).

Doubters also overlook the incredible success that has come to Adam Watts and Andy Dodd. Because of just ONE TAXI Forward, their songs have been on 40,000,000 (yes, forty-million!) CDs and countless TV shows and movies in approximately 4.5 years. Their first hit was Beautiful Soul with Jesse McCartney, which led to Disney Music pub deals for both, and NUMEROUS cuts on High School Musical 1,2,3, Camp Rock and a gazillion other Disney related production and entities (as well as others).

Take a look at their credits and know that the vast majority of their cuts, productions and hits from 2004 to date have resulted from just one TAXI Forward.

http://reddecibelproductions.com/credits.htm

Will every TAXI member have those kinds of successes? No. Will every TAXI member get Film and TV placements and earn money like thousands already HAVE over the years? No.

But it's NOT a lottery. A lottery is purely gambling.

Successful TAXI members aren't gambling. They're writing every day, listening to our expert feedback, using it, networking with our successful members on our forum, learning and making critical industry connections at our free convention (the Road Rally) and much more.

Our successful members aren't playing the lottery at ALL! They're busy EARNING the success they're willing to WORK for. Ask any successful TAXI members what they think of TAXI, and then check out the songs and the work habits of the people who have used us and haven't found success yet. I think you might start to see a pattern.

Speaking of our successful members, can I please ask you guys for a favor? When threads like these pop up on forums ANYWHERE, would you guys kindly direct the participants to these pages?

http://taxi.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=success

http://taxi.com/abouts/successdeals.html

It might also be a good idea to look at our current opportunities in both the record and film/TV markets. Click here to see our Industry Listings.

http://taxi.com/industry.php

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to read this. Thanks to Brian for the head's up. Thanks to Vikki for posting it, and thanks to those of you who have pointed to facts and not fiction on this thread. I appreciate ALL of you. Have a great weekend!

Sincerely,
Michael Laskow
TAXI

P.S. My favorite post on this thread (thank you John!):

"Humans are a strange breed when it comes to spending money. They have their priorities.

I know people that spend over two grand on cigarettes a year (and double that on beer and booze). People drop a hundred a week on fast food, and think nothing of spending a grand a year on lottery tickets (talk about odds).

Anyway, my point is that TAXI is a very inexpensive treat to give oneself. And a delightful treat it is.

Best, John
John Lawrence Schick"

Thanks Michael, Brian & Vikki

One thing is not a debate or a concern - "Caring"

1- You either understand what Taxi can do for you or you don't. Or perhaps you don't need what it offers. Which I'll never understand that.. What? you don't need "work"?

2- Are you prepared and ready on your end of things for it. How good is your material and how good does it sound? How much catalog do you have & how diverse is it? From day one Taxi has never promised more than it could actually offer. Like me you join to find out the deal and then you study the angles of how things work & play out. I learned!


Again thanks for chiming in and thanks for "caring"