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These programs are wrong on so many levels. The very least, udio should let the users know where they get the samples. Apparently, they don't care. Everything is free for the picking. I'm wondering how they make money since they advertise free usage.
Regarding using other peoples' melodies, instrumental licks...rappers have been doing that for 50 years, many of them becoming billionaires. Doing it intentionally or subconsciously (like My Sweet Lord) was considered a humiliation until rap, now it's expected.
Other than that, I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't even know what AI is.
There was a report on local news about how some agency was gonna use AI to make space safe.
When they're done with that, can they make Tucson safe? You make your Costco run, then get out of town before dark. Every day now, there's homicides, street takeovers, illegal alien related highway chases resulting in multiple deaths. Idiot "protesters" tying up traffic. Drive by a grammar school and there's a bearded guy in a dress looking at the kids through the chain link fence. Report it and you'll end up accused of having a "phobia" on MSNBC. Soft on crime policies really work!!
Maybe AI can lend a hand...after space is safe, of course.
Regarding using other peoples' melodies, instrumental licks...rappers have been doing that for 50 years, many of them becoming billionaires. Doing it intentionally or subconsciously (like My Sweet Lord) was considered a humiliation until rap, now it's expected.
Other than that, I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't even know what AI is.
There was a report on local news about how some agency was gonna use AI to make space safe.
When they're done with that, can they make Tucson safe? You make your Costco run, then get out of town before dark. Every day now, there's homicides, street takeovers, illegal alien related highway chases resulting in multiple deaths. Idiot "protesters" tying up traffic. Drive by a grammar school and there's a bearded guy in a dress looking at the kids through the chain link fence. Report it and you'll end up accused of having a "phobia" on MSNBC. Soft on crime policies really work!!
Maybe AI can lend a hand...after space is safe, of course.
The difference though is using a sample has to be allowed . Get permission. And they aren't playing the same song and saying they wrote it
They are claiming to rap over another song
You'd die the thing writes lyrics.
So if you didn't write the words or melody, didn't sing, play, or record or produce it, what exactly did you do!
The new art form is now how well can you suggest a song into existence
Machines can't create good lyrics, only a weaker xerox of what's already been done. Rappers/R & B "artists" credit their samples now, but not originally.
Machines can't create good lyrics, only a weaker xerox of what's already been done. Rappers/R & B "artists" credit their samples now, but not originally.
I'm gonna do a random creation I'm just gonna give a title and see what lyrics it makes
It won't be great but better than some humans I've seen some already
Ok I got one for ya. Now I tried naming a country hook called those are the brakes. Double hook but it didn't really understand.
So I went with a singer songwriter thing looking for possible poignant simethngs.
Now this may not be Cat Stevens, but it's creepy that's it seems pretty good
I named it phantom grace, and it did everything itself. I didn't wanna complete it but this is what it came out with. Granted it's a deep genre, I've seen some bad pop stuff too
Phantom Grace
Whispers echo 'gainst the walls we raise Seeds sprout where we claim no light finds ways Years rush past, in the adjacent space It's the fall of our own phantom grace
Chorus: In the mirror of time, true self we face Buoyant hopes sink in yesterday's chase Yet through cracks in our doubt, love interlaces A gentle reminder of our shared human grace
Verse 2: We hold the keys to the cages we make Building walls high, for our fragile heart's sake But life finds a way, through the smallest of seams And the heart learns to bloom in the light of its beams
Chorus: In the mirror of time, true self we face Buoyant hopes sink in yesterday's chase Yet through cracks in our doubt, love interlaces A gentle reminder of our shared human grace
Walked into the wrong saloon (no boots) Glitter balls and pop tunes (bright lights) Barkeep grins with a wink so sly Thought I'd find a cowboy, oh my
Them boots ain't made for walkin', it's a fact Men in hats but their rhinestones shine back Two-steppin', but it's not the same (not the same) Cowboys are dancin', but there's a twist in the game (new flame)
Rainbow flags, line dancin' with flair Didn't find my rodeo, but there's love in the air Dancin' boots on, but these boys don't play Got myself a two-step partner, and he's leading the way
In this crowd, we're all outlaws tonight (outlaws tonight) No horse needed, just a disco ball's light (let's dance right) Found a new posse, it's a technicolor scene Yeehaw's met with yaas, it's a party queen's dream Solo:
So raise your glass, let's make a toast (cheers to love) In cowboy boots or heels, we boast (strut your stuff) From the saddle to the dance floor's heat (burnin' up) We're bucking trends when we move our feet (slide and strut) [ It's the Wrangler or the sequin scene (take your pick) Find your herd, live the dream (live it up)
Both of these songs are as good as, or better than 99 percent of what shows up on this site. And they were produced by prompting with a handful of words within a few minutes. Time to face the facts.
To my ear, you could make the case that the outlaw song took from Johnny Cash's vocal stylistically...but... if Spirit couldn't win that Taurus case against Led Zep, it is not likely that this case would prevail either.
This stuff is here. It will improve. Nothing is going to wish it away. The most rational thing that you can do, as Mike stated, is learn it and try to use it to enhance your own songwriting.
Complaining about it and faulting it may make you feel a little bit better in the moment, but it is not going to stop this train. Beyonce and some of the bigs tried to take over streaming and make it pay for artists, but their adoring fans went for the free and cheap services anyway. Same sort of thing here.
What I said and what Sunset Poet said are both true.
At least the machine meters its lyrics.
I would've guessed AI programmed by Wokesters wrote, directed, and acted in most recent movies, including Netflix/Amazon/Apple "original" shows, which commercials I mute/fast forward through.
I'm looking forward to the 4k releases of Shane and The Searchers. (The Wokesters might get their revenge by having Whoopie Goldberg introduce The Searchers to warn the audience of "problematic" parts, like with my Bugs Bunny dvds. I was in Tucson recently, a nearby car wash was blaring the most obscene rap "music" imaginable. Whoopi did not warn me)
But I digress. AI won't be able to produce anything worthwhile, just polished mediocrity.
Machines can't create good lyrics, only a weaker xerox of what's already been done. Rappers/R & B "artists" credit their samples now, but not originally.
Actually, CG, machines will be able to write great lyrics....teaching them will not be a problem....
in the future you will have a new Grammy category....
"And the "Binary" for best AI song created from 1,000,000 human songs is......LOL
Steve
Creators of music have a responsibility to their craft. When they have finished using all the notes and words, they must pass them down to the next generation with a simple request. “Use these to create new music.”
Both of these songs are as good as, or better than 99 percent of what shows up on this site. And they were produced by prompting with a handful of words within a few minutes. Time to face the facts.
To my ear, you could make the case that the outlaw song took from Johnny Cash's vocal stylistically...but... if Spirit couldn't win that Taurus case against Led Zep, it is not likely that this case would prevail either.
This stuff is here. It will improve. Nothing is going to wish it away. The most rational thing that you can do, as Mike stated, is learn it and try to use it to enhance your own songwriting.
Complaining about it and faulting it may make you feel a little bit better in the moment, but it is not going to stop this train. Beyonce and some of the bigs tried to take over streaming and make it pay for artists, but their adoring fans went for the free and cheap services anyway. Same sort of thing here.
That was going to be my replay. If it's not at least as good as anything posted here in probably several years, maybe not so good as in oh man I gotta add that to my Spotify list.
It's not better than our top artists. And yes the cowboy song steals from all over
I think we're capable of beating these. this thing. Studies, we don't.
It also sounds like a commercial record, which most of us are not equipt to do
The problem with this technology is it's only good for personal usage. It certainly can't be released legally for profit. This tech is basically stealing from others without their knowledge or consent.
Not yet they haven't. The advent of tech from the 60s on has not improved music, but made it worse, much worse.
I was a member of a religion as teen and into my late 20s. One of its worst features was the soul crushing boredom of its meetings and activities. The sermons were agonizingly dull. Personal PCs came on the scene in the early 90s and all the church elders recommended I buy one. They claimed it made writing and researching their sermons a breeze.
Unfortunately, their sermons remained torture to sit Through. Computers were not able to impart talent to their programmers.
And they never will be able to.
Ps...my comments were not intended to discourage the Church. Certain sectarian fringes of it are, however, quite unpleasant in their sterile, legalistic "spirituality".
Not yet they haven't. The advent of tech from the 60s on has not improved music, but made it worse, much worse.
I was a member of a religion as teen and into my late 20s. One of its worst features was the soul crushing boredom of its meetings and activities. The sermons were agonizingly dull. Personal PCs came on the scene in the early 90s and all the church elders recommended I buy one. They claimed it made writing and researching their sermons a breeze.
Unfortunately, their sermons remained torture to sit Through. They were not able to impart talent to their programmers.
And they never will be able to.
I totally agree with that. With all the tools why is most getting worse. I think music serves a different t purpose now than it did back then. I call the purpose of today's music something to do while doing something else
I still believe there is something unique about the connection of a real artist.
Yet this will keep many entertained.
It's also not really capable of relating to us, it's just capable of appearing like it's tryingy.
The problem with this technology is it's only good for personal usage. It certainly can't be released legally for profit. This tech is basically stealing from others without their knowledge or consent.
John
I don't think that argument holds up in the law. You cannot copyright chord progressions. It seems that you can make a case for stylistic theft, (Blurred Lines) but the similarities have to be unmistakable. Even when they are unmistakable to my ear (Taurus), the side that seemed justified (Spirit) lost.
Stated another way; IMHO Nashville has distilled down about 50 chord melody/vocal melody combinations that they re-write to differing lyrics...and put on the radio. They mix and match verse and chorus and prechorus and bridge "pieces" but they go to what works selecting out of the same overall stack...and it works. All of the 50 or so melody combinations have precedents in some original work dating back to the 1950s and (I think) that a case could be made for derivation and shared copyrights in thousands of songs in the country genre alone...but it doesnt happen.
If those thousands of derivations are not contested, I doubt that a winning case can be made against almost all AI derivatives, because whether "created" by machine or organism, derivative "borrowing" and "influence" are the same thing."
Again, the similarities (copying) have to be unmistakable.
Are their samples and grooves cleared? If not, it's stealing.
John
It wont be that simple. I suspect that it will come down to a direct comparison of the alleged stolen material and the alleged derivative.
Nashville writers do not live in a vacuum. They are influenced by everything that they ever heard. Everything in their head has an antecedent. Do they list those antecedents and give credit to original writers? Hardly ever?
Check out this video. Boney M's "Ma Baker" compared to Gaga's "Poker face." From what I have read, Lady Gaga adamantly denies that this was anything more than a complete coincidence.
Derivative influences are not going to be actionable, whether created by organisms or machines...that were created by organisms.
I suspect that it will come down to a direct comparison of the alleged stolen material and the alleged derivative.
So, it's okay to steal as long as you don't get caught.
John
John You're oversimplifying. The world and particularly the legal world are not going to conform to John's sensibilities.
The back-and-forth on this is becoming circular, so I am going to drop any further attempt to persuade you of anything other than what you want to believe. Last word is yours.
Even posting a song here how will people view it,?
Will thet pass off your role as the ai did it?
How would u even prove you wrote your part of it?
That is something that I wonder?
Ultimately the "beta" phase will end and these people will charge for this. If all some paying user does is type in "I miss my cat" and the resultant song goes viral and produces revenue...will these services claim no copywrite ownership?
Dom If you had not chased off Mike, he might have some insight into this. ;(
I got locked into Udio For 3+ hours and my wife asked me what I was doing. Creating songs from AI software. I said. She was shocked!! I'd never ever go to one of your concerts if you did that! So yeah.
I got locked into Udio For 3+ hours and my wife asked me what I was doing. Creating songs from AI software. I said. She was shocked!! I'd never ever go to one of your concerts if you did that! So yeah.
Even posting a song here how will people view it,?
Will thet pass off your role as the ai did it?
How would u even prove you wrote your part of it?
It doesn't matter. I know I did it. The bottom-line is "intent". We've all been influenced by others. And that's a good thing. Otherwise, we'd all still be writing chants. Ubio is knowingly using others' work.
It doesn't matter. I know I did it. The bottom-line is "intent". We've all been influenced by others. And that's a good thing. Otherwise, we'd all still be writing chants. Ubio is knowingly using others' work.
John
When you write a song, if you can trace the antecedents (influences) in your mind...then you are "using other's work" to arrive at your work. A strong if not bullet-proof case can be made that your work would never have been written without the influences. You heard them, they registered in your brain and subconscious and left impressions that remain. That's comparable to assembling an algorithm.
What will matter is the actual comparison of your work to the "influencing" work. If it is dead on, and you had access, there is a problem for you. If it is not dead on, and you had access, there is no problem or less of a problem for you.
Udio will make the same argument, and it is a viable point of view. Alleging theft is not proving theft by legal definitions.
Study up on the "Taurus" decision. Led Zep won the case. I personally dont think that they should have. But they did.
Ps...sorry, I wanted to drop out but you keep repeating something that ignores too much fact to let go. I'll try again
Even posting a song here how will people view it,?
Will thet pass off your role as the ai did it?
How would u even prove you wrote your part of it?
That is something that I wonder?
Ultimately the "beta" phase will end and these people will charge for this. If all some paying user does is type in "I miss my cat" and the resultant song goes viral and produces revenue...will these services claim no copywrite ownership?
Dom If you had not chased off Mike, he might have some insight into this. ;(
I didn't chase him off he left before that. And he was leaving anyway. He doesn't want to be here as a regular. He said he only came to show the software
I didn't chase him off he left before that. And he was leaving anyway. He doesn't want to be here as a regular. He said he only came to show the software
The Egyptian swim team is looking for a coach. If interested, you might want to check it out.
I didn't chase him off he left before that. And he was leaving anyway. He doesn't want to be here as a regular. He said he only came to show the software
The Egyptian swim team is looking for a coach. If interested, you might want to check it out.
It doesn't matter. I know I did it. The bottom-line is "intent". We've all been influenced by others. And that's a good thing. Otherwise, we'd all still be writing chants. Ubio is knowingly using others' work.
John
When you write a song, if you can trace the antecedents (influences) in your mind...then you are "using other's work" to arrive at your work. A strong if not bullet-proof case can be made that your work would never have been written without the influences. You heard them, they registered in your brain and subconscious and left impressions that remain. That's comparable to assembling an algorithm.
What will matter is the actual comparison of your work to the "influencing" work. If it is dead on, and you had access, there is a problem for you. If it is not dead on, and you had access, there is no problem or less of a problem for you.
Udio will make the same argument, and it is a viable point of view. Alleging theft is not proving theft by legal definitions.
Study up on the "Taurus" decision. Led Zep won the case. I personally dont think that they should have. But they did.
Ps...sorry, I wanted to drop out but you keep repeating something that ignores too much fact to let go. I'll try again
Dom, you're having trouble telling the difference between an apple and an orange. In the process of leaning music theory and composition, we study those that came before us. And it’s not only in music, but in all things, man builds on previous knowledge to create something new. Otherwise, we’d still be living in caves. Your analogy doesn’t hold water.
Okay, I’m leaving this thread. You just chased another person off Dom… Only kidding.
It doesn't matter. I know I did it. The bottom-line is "intent". We've all been influenced by others. And that's a good thing. Otherwise, we'd all still be writing chants. Ubio is knowingly using others' work.
John
When you write a song, if you can trace the antecedents (influences) in your mind...then you are "using other's work" to arrive at your work. A strong if not bullet-proof case can be made that your work would never have been written without the influences. You heard them, they registered in your brain and subconscious and left impressions that remain. That's comparable to assembling an algorithm.
What will matter is the actual comparison of your work to the "influencing" work. If it is dead on, and you had access, there is a problem for you. If it is not dead on, and you had access, there is no problem or less of a problem for you.
Udio will make the same argument, and it is a viable point of view. Alleging theft is not proving theft by legal definitions.
Study up on the "Taurus" decision. Led Zep won the case. I personally dont think that they should have. But they did.
Ps...sorry, I wanted to drop out but you keep repeating something that ignores too much fact to let go. I'll try again
Dom, you're having trouble telling the difference between an apple and an orange. In the process of leaning music theory and composition, we study those that came before us. And it’s not only in music, but in all things, man builds on previous knowledge to create something new. Otherwise, we’d still be living in caves. Your analogy doesn’t hold water.
Okay, I’m leaving this thread. You just chased another person off Dom… Only kidding.
John
Yeah it's all learned borrowed stolen JS bach may be only one who can otherwise
I just envision one of these so songs and nobody crediting me for my role, instead talking about what the ai did.
Like it makes us all equal
I already see where it still pays to be pretty good at what you do.
Even in something as simple as knowing what is good and bad when u hear it
My understanding is that the AI developers ‘train’ AI by feeding it tons of published songs and it learns from that. It’s proprietary, so the developers are not disclosing their sampling method. Lawyers will get involved eventually when someone brings a case that opens AI companies to inspection. Absent that, we might never know where AI is sampling from.
The "Music Industry" only has itself to blame... The industry forces everyone into categories listed by genre. Now, all genres are easily duplicated. I see no problem at all... The industry is getting what it wants.
I am not absolutely certain, but it may be that John thinks he is being clever by attempting to compare me to you. He can tell you whether he actually is or not. See post 1193824
On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 2:34 PM Anthony Williams <gta*****01@gmail.com> wrote: I’m just not impressed… How do I delete the account gta*****01@gmail.com JAPOV ?
Sent from Mail for Windows ------------------ _Contact at UdioSent_ Wednesday, April 17, 2024 1_52 PMTo_ Anthony WilliamsSubject_ Re_ Delete account
We will proceed to delete the account for you. Thanks for getting in touch. Best,Udio Team ------------------ Well… Great customer service/support! 😉 Thanks
My understanding is that the AI developers ‘train’ AI by feeding it tons of published songs and it learns from that. It’s proprietary, so the developers are not disclosing their sampling method. Lawyers will get involved eventually when someone brings a case that opens AI companies to inspection. Absent that, we might never know where AI is sampling from.
That is plausible.
It's only shortcoming may be a stepped-back view that applies common sense and morality.
Common sense goes away when lawyers arguments start. Morality dictates that people should not steal. But we live in a society where many wealthy immoral people have great sway over the "law makers."
I suspect that a lot of money has already been invested by the AI guys in attorneys in order to research a defensible position.
My understanding is that the AI developers ‘train’ AI by feeding it tons of published songs and it learns from that. It’s proprietary, so the developers are not disclosing their sampling method. Lawyers will get involved eventually when someone brings a case that opens AI companies to inspection. Absent that, we might never know where AI is sampling from.
I think that means it can Compete with us on the past but not on the future.
It. Can't earn the future.
Humans should be ok. But it reveals most of us are stealing znywayy
Gets a poem from ai and wins the poetry contest at college
Very weird
I completely agree with that and wonder...how does anyone stop that from happening? Not just poems, but all sorts of subjects. You wonder if colleges are going to do away with essays altogether and have to go to tests where computers can be excluded.
Gets a poem from ai and wins the poetry contest at college
Very weird
I completely agree with that and wonder...how does anyone stop that from happening? Not just poems, but all sorts of subjects. You wonder if colleges are going to do away with essays altogether.
Might take some genius to figure out a way to know if it's authentic or not . I'm not available
Or u could argue that everybody has the same resources, why does one fare better?
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