JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Toby Keith Talks About Gay Marrige/DADT

on the related subject of gay/lesbian kids and anti- suicide efforts on their behalf......

though being gay/lesbian is very tough for adults to handle due to rejection by family and friends/society-its especially hard for gay teenagers who havent developed the internal strength and coping mechanisms adults have......they often commit sucide or make attempts at it in their isolation and depression.....

I found a link to a really great organization that is specifically dedicated to helping gay/lesbian teenagers with crisis management services...I am posting the link for anyone who has a gay/lesbian teenagers or knows of one who could use this support service....I realize there will be some who say these are a bunch of pedophiles hunting young victims-but there will always be those who automatically equate gays and lesbians with pedophillia-even though its not true.....

But again if you have a gay/lesbian teenagers or know one who is feeling very lonely and depressed this link could help them out alot........

http://www.thetrevorproject.org/Programs


Tom

I was honestly surprised.

My impression from the title alone was "here he goes again."
Toby went and said something dumb. But his comment was honest and brave and likely to offend his conservative christian fans and radio. Probably not as bad as hank JR's recent comment disaster.

Reminded me of this response to Dr Laura's comments for biblical morality and against homosexuality.


Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When people try to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them:

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9) The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev.15:19-24).The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev.25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev.11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev.11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend. He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

...And I believe the point Ande is making here is that being selective with the religious tenets we desire to use as irrefutable points of debate--or legislation for all citizens--is a very slippery slope.

Again, I respect anyone's right to adhere to the tenets of their faith...but I do not respect any insistence to force other people to adhere to them, unwillingly, as well. Saying "You may not marry because it is against the teachings of my faith" is doing just that.

Yep, and I'm glad for that.

Labels have marketing departments and publicists whose job is to make sure fans are presented a story they can believe. Toby Keith may have been a Democrat and supported Obama, but his label presented him as a pro-war conservative, and a lot of those people (not all, but a lot) also disapprove of homosexuality. When TK made his comment, he was speaking his heart, but he was also off-script

It's the same kind of thinking that leads artists to lie about their age, or hide the fact that they're married, or gay, or have political leanings. It's easier to sell an artist to an audience that shares the same worldview.

I'm reminded of country singer Chely Wright, who had that "Bumper Of My SUV" song a few years back. Conservative fans loved her and she did USO tours in a camouflage bikini top. Then -- oops! -- she came out as a lesbian.

That's why publicists freak out when artists are candid, and that's why the Toby Keith thing is "news."

Toby was also number 1 on the singles chart when he was asked this question. Toby can say just about anything he wants to a certain extent. I bet his next single will still be a top 5 even after this. The single was "Made In America" for crying out loud...Originally I thought, oh no...that's bad. Then I remembered, it's Toby Keith. He does his thing and the radio loves it. All he did was get his name in the headlines. Bet it doesn't hurt a bit. I see Toby's fans, if there anything like him, as likely a pretty outspoken crowd. I think they expect Toby to say whatever he feels like, whenever he wants.

So according to Andy, in order to be a christian or religious one has to follow the exact letter of every single law in the bible before one has the right to use it as a defense for one's position. And only when I can prove I've followed every tennent, word, law, saying, etc. in the bible do I have the right to open my mouth. I'm thinking that is a false argument. But it is the usual argument thrown at those of us of my particular faith. So that means, that unless you follow every rule there was is or ever was regarding songwriting, to the letter, you have no right to tell me anything about my songwriting. Huh?? Now before you say I can't compare the two, I'm simply saying. If the defining premise for one's ability to use a document is one's complete compliance with it then we have problems with the constitution and many other important documents we supposedly live by.

Steve

If I may, please let me apologize to the thread. This thread was started about Toby Keith and his support of gays. I fear I have, in some way, made it a Steve and the bible against the world thread. So for that I sincerely apologize and will do my best to keep it so. It has been rather interesting, and civil. Thanks again to all.

Steve

well since I started the thread I guess I am the one who should accept your apology-which I do-no problem......Nashville is pretty much the capital of the Bible Belt....thats one of the reasons I thought Toby was so brave to say what he did and given the business that he is in..

I wouldnt say its you and your Bible against the world.....The world has plenty of people who agree with you-as well as plenty of people who dont.As long as we can all do that peacefully and with civil discussions about whatever-its all cool..Nobody is trying to force you to be gay.......

I am not gay-but I believe people who are dont need my permission to be happy.."Life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness"..I respect everyones religous beliefs....I dont know if you have ever been to Nashville-but if you have you had to notice a skyscraper downtown with a 20 story cross on the outside of it....We have the headquarters of the Southern Baptist Convention here as well as numerous other religious organizations and 10,000 or so churches in this city-or so it seems...We also have alot of drink till you drop honkytonks and even a couple of bring your own goat orgy clubs....Which are expensive believe me......I hope Tennessee someday allows gay marrige-cause those folks are just as American as I am....And America is about freedom to be who you are.....I spent a year living in Las Vegas-now that is a wide open let er rip town obviously as we know..But whats not as well known generally is that alot of the people who work there are Mormons who came from Utah in search of jobs....They will deal your cards and pour your drinks and give you the room keys to party with whoever you want....And they dont even drink coffee....Paul Marriot-the founder of the hotel chain that bears his name-told his son never to exercise judgement about the guests in the hotels name....I have never seen a gay bartender refuse service to a straight customer....So as long as we all respect each other here in the JPF forums-we all have the right to disagree as far as I am concerned.....I think this has been a very interesting discussion.....My buddy Dave thinks I am going to turn to salt or whatever-but he has the right to his beliefs....I go out the door and live my life everyday in the shadow of that 20 story cross and so far I havent been vaporized....So God must be a cool dude....

Tom

Tom, I wanna Thank You for running this Thread. I don't know how many hearts Softened-up a Little...but hopefully a few did.

Our Christmases are a bit Sad around here: My Son's Partner comes from a Born-Again Christian Family/he dreads being "Disowned" if he ever comes-out.

So..for the last 6 of the 7 years they've been A Couple, my son heads HERE for the Holidays, his partner heads back..to Tennessee & HIS Family...&..he's the Church Organist there, Year-After-Year.

Needless to say, they get little "Comfort & Joy" out of that time of the year.

Anyways, THANKS Again for maybe opening a few minds out there/Thanks Toby, Too!

Best Wishes & a Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

most welcome Brother Stan

sorry that your son's partner cant come out of the closet without being shunned and disowned back home.....there was a great gal I was involved with for a year-we almost got married except her parents wanted her to be with "a nice Jewish boy"-so we had to keep our relationship a secret-which was made easier by the fact that they were in Florida and we were in D.C.........believe me the roof woulda blown off that house if she had brought me home to Mom and Dad.....sorry that your son and his partner have to play the game at holiday time.....but maybe someday he will just say he doesnt care anymore and start jamming out a rendition of "YMCA" on the church organ and then walk out the door of that place...he will lose his family and his church but regain his soul.........

good luck to them

Tom

Brother Tom, glad to see you've kept a Sense of Humor going, Amigo!

That YMCA at the Christmas Service sounds like a Fabulous Story Song... I'd pen it, but it's Too-Close-to-Home...but SOMEBODY Should!!! Thanks Again for Fine Thread & a Great Laugh!

Continuing Best Wishes, Sorry about That Gal, & a Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

Amazing Tom,
When I was in the Navy a new sailor came in the Squadrion. He was Catholic. He had married a Prot. girl. He told me his mother gave him holy hell because he didn't marry a Catholic. So there is enough prejudice out there to go around. But I will always believe in live and let live. Hi Yo Silver! Away!

I have no problem with gays, but I do dislike their tendency to flash their sexuality all the time.

It's almost like they come with a built in fetish for provoking, allthough I know gays are not by any means a homogenous group of people (no pun intended).

But I would say that if artists are not candid, they become fake and uninteresting, like a soft shoe shuffler singing at a rock festival. And in country, if you are not real, you are not.. (well, maybe that's a guideline that's been modified quite a lot, later years). So, I can only imagine it's in perfect sync for Toby Keith to stand up for this, wasn't he a former Chippendale?

Here ya Go Stan
If you or Tom can add a good Bridge that brings resolution we can share the credit. On the other hand you may not want to, LOL.
I'm gonna try putting this to music later today.

Young Man Come Away with me
©2011 Bill Robinson ASCAP

I was on my way to New York City
Stopped in a town that had no pity
Knew I had to change my face
Been there before and new my place

I was born in a town like that
Hid my shame neath a different hat
Til the day I met a caring soul
Took me away from that drowning hole

Said Young Man Come Away with me
We’ll go around the world and you’ll be free

You’ll see open skies and how rivers flow
Like wind blown sand and drifting snow
We’ll go around the world and you’ll be free
Young Man Come Away with me

He was sitting alone in the back row pew
Head was bowed and it was my clue
To make a move to let him know
There was a better place to go

I sat down right next to him said
Said hello Son I’ll be your friend
Those other folks don’t really know
The good that’s hid there in your soul

Said Young Man Come Away with me
We’ll go around the world and you’ll be free

You’ll see open skies and how rivers flow
Like wind blown sand and drifting snow
We’ll go around the world and you’ll be free
Young Man Come Away with me

that looks very good to me Bill-very clever indeed....

you covered all the bases quite well as far as I can see....

I myself dont have a worthy bridge coming to mind at this time but Stan is always quick on the draw with those things....have at it Stan....

thanks alot Bill

Tom

Thanks Tom
Maybe the reason I couldn't think of anything for a bridge is it doesn't need one?
Your Idea of breaking into YMCA at the church service was the seed for this one. Couldn't think of a way to write that one tho.

I myself dont think it needs a bridge either....you certainly have enough verses and again I think you covered the subject quite well...looks to me like it will be universely/easily understood......lets see what Stan thinks and of course I am sure you are open to comments-critiques from anyone else on this.....but I think you did really well just to knock out something this good so shortly after getting the idea for the subject matter/theme......

Tom

HiDee Bill & Tom, Again.

Nicely-Penned, Amigo...Tho for-sure..Some Are Always-Offended.

It's not beggin' for a Bridge, methinks. I tried for one...ended up with what ya might use as a Tag:

"He said 'All my life, up until this time/
I wasn't sure if my life..was worth a dime.'"

Might sound too-mercenary...I dunno. But gays DO go thru that period of deciding if it's WORTH dealing with all that "Being Different" entails. I doubt if it's ever-easy..remembering my own JR High & HS years where we all "Had" to fit-in.

My son was lucky...Dad never HAD fit-in...heh-heh...(Being a Cartoonist, I sorty was "exempt"...in HS days...& as the town's Clockmaker here...I'm sorta Exhibit-A of a Guy who Lives It "HIS Way.") Both my sons "take-after Dad" in their own ways...&...to each, their own. They're Our Flesh-&-Blood, & we raised-'em-right.

Good Luck with this'n', Brother Bill. "Those other folks don't really know/The good that is hid there in your soul" is SUCH a Fine Couplet....Mists ME Up...hope it does the Ones That Need It.

Best Wishes & Big Guys-Hugs all-around. (I lived in Europe for 5 years, & Real Men HUG there a lot.)
Stan

Oh, PS Bill..it's "Knew" where ya got "New". Narry a Nit otherwise--

I just saw this on my Gay Son's Facebook Page..2 maps of the US with colored-in states, Caption on Top Map "Would You Marry Your Partner?" & showing about 6 States "colored-in'....

The Map Below's Captioned "Would You Marry Your Cousin?"...(First-Cousin, that-is)...&, tho about 4 have "Certain Conditions", there are 21 States where Somewhat-INCESTUOUS Liaisons are Legally-Condoned on a Most-Everyday Basis.

Perhaps this might explain the "Uppityness" of some Gays these days...

Back to Lurk Mode,
Stan

LOL thanks Stan
I was penning this one before I was awake, Thanks for the look and catching the typo. I shoulda waited til after the first cup of Joe.
This is the kind of song that probably would never get cut. Most folks would be afraid to sing it, LOL.