JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum CO Writing or Alone...?

Ok here is Me and Rays Agreement:

Ray shall write all words between A and M

I shall write N to Z.

I shall write the melody for the words i write, and Ray shall write the melody for the words he writes.

When piecing the two parts together, we shall share the expense of scotch tape.

Then we will buy and sell used items to make enough money to demo.

The percentage of money Ray puts up shall represent his share of the equity of the song, likewise shall mine.

Ray agrees to put the song on his site to gain exposure, and i will use my popularity here on the site to push us over the top.

All downhill from there.

Humm, Bugsey,
I do believe you are ****** in the wind. But if it doesn't blow back on you.......

what you do wanna write with me?

Eh,
So far I don't Co-Write. Go to the Shania Post and listen to the song I suggest for Shania and you will see why.

We coulda wrote a smash Ray.

We coulda been a contender...

Just playin man have some fun.

The songwriting business must be laughed at, otherwise it wont be much fun

With all the recalls of cars these days, I wonder if the car manufacturers are not doing the same thing, producing cheap because quality does not pay off. Only the rich can afford quality and there are not many of them. It is a sad world that rewards shoddy over quality.

Is it co-writing if you hear voices in your head while composing a tune?

Aw, Yes,
On the Car Issue it is a shame that the American Car Companies STILL build cars with too many problems today. I suscribe to Consumers Reports and the black marks on too many cars are Legion. Not that they can't build excellent cars. They still cut corners and repair them under Warrenty after they are sold. I gave up on Americian Cars a long time ago.

Hey Bugsey....You hit it right on the old noggin. Look at Lenard Cohen.....80 years old, can't sing a lick and writes nice songs. He's STILL OUT THERE PERFORMING.....

When all is said and done....SONGWRITING is a labor of love and I couldn't stop if I wanted to. GOD hears my songs and sometimes even my wife BUT it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much Fun!!

Interesting discussion.

I only write lyrics. I've tried writing music for them, but I was never happy with the results. So all my songs have been co-written.

What matters is the song, however it's created. Either a song "works" or it doesn't. Songs that "work" are the children of a successful marriage of words and music, whether it takes one person or twenty to effect that miracle.

The world is full of bad marriages. But there are some good ones too.

I love collaboration. I love the give and take, the companionship, and the mutual exploration. Ninety percent of my collaborations didn't work, however, for whatever reason. Just means you have to try again. Enough of my collaborations have worked to leave me with some sonic children I'm proud to have parented.

The focus has to be on the song. Egos have to be left outside the door. If anyone involved starts to quibble about how much credit they deserve the child is going to be deformed. Or stillborn.

The business of music is a whole other world. A world in flux at the moment. The old ways of compensating songwriters have been demolished and the new ways haven't yet been devised. I'll probably die before the new ways take shape. Oh well. I missed my chance.

So my focus now is on the song. I enjoy parenting sonic children. I'll go out sowing wild notes.

Them's my 2 cents.

Cowriting is fun!.. so is writing alone. When cowriting, regardless of percieved input, credit should be split evenly (as if people are making money:)

As said above, egos must go. I do have one selfish rule though: If I'm recording the vocal, I will tweak (not twerk) the lyrics for phrasing purposes. I hear so many people on this site that have great lyrics only to fail with the delivery. It can't just look good on paper, it has to roll of the tongue of the person singing it without it being akward. I've even heard these problems on professional demos.

-Mike D.

I agree that credit should be split evenly, Mike. Magic's hard to pin down.

As for tweaking lyrics while recording vocals... I believe that a lyricist's job continues through the recording phase. I don't mind a vocalist/co-writer changing lyrics to fit. But I reserve the right to rewrite the changed lyrics if I think I can produce something better. But I've found, more often than not, that a rewrite isn't necessary.

Later,
Stan

Agreed Stan!

I should also clarify, the singer, whether co-writer or not (unless they are T-swift or something) should never unilaterally change anything.

-Mike D.

An interesting thread.

Ramble Alert:

Without co-writes, I'd have no songs at all. I write my lyrics in isolation, but for music & vocals, I need other people.

I'm lucky to have co-written a number of songs with several fine musicians/vocalists over the past 6 years or so, including here on JPF.

Meanwhile, I've whittled my collaborators down to mainly two: one in England, the other in Scotland. One doesn't have a knack for words, but is an amazingly skilled musician/composer/arranger, and has an uncanny gift for creating music that's invariably a perfect match for the lyric. (Not just mine, but lyrics of others as well.)

The other collaborator is likewise gifted, but also writes lyrics, so has a good sense of linguistic nuance.
I'm always open to suggestions from him, especially the way in which the words/lines need to roll off the tongue. (In fact, whenever I write a lyric, I sing it to myself several times. Certain lines/words are invariably changed and rearranged so that the lyric is as tight as possible, to make things easy for my co-writer.)

(I occasionally contribute a melody as well.)

Of course, there've been a handful of co-write failures (not with the two mentioned above) for diverse reasons, but that's part of the learning process.

I once had unrealistic hopes of my songs being 'heard'. For me now, it's all about the joy of creating. The fun (and the therapeutic benefits ). I'd like to think that anyone who does hear a song of mine and my co-writers will be a little the richer for it, in terms of enjoyment A few songs are on CDs (online bands I've worked with) and on sites like Reverbnation, and some of them are played live. Heck, I even had my 15 minutes of fame a few years ago when a song featured in an episode of a TV show. But that's it. And I'm neither hoping for nor expecting more.

I simply love playing with words, meeting the challenge of writing in various genres, overcoming barriers, expressing things in a way that might resonate with others, that might touch them. One human being to another.

Maybe after I topple from my perch, my grandkids will 'discover' lyrics and songs of mine scattered all around the ether, and will set about trying to find a home for them. Well, good luck with that.

Donna

Agreed that when Co-Writing all royalities should be split evenly. Publishing Contracts will have the Clause in them that allows editing the song to fit an Artist. However that in no way, shape or form gives the Artist any Co-Writing Credit unless a seperate agreement is signed by the writer's to that affect.