JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Taylor Swift Alternative

I love this gal. I dont know how old she is but she kicks Taylor Swifts behind. She writes better, sings better, and even cuter.

I heard a clip of this tune on a days inn commercial. She does very well on TV music. But How this song is not a big hit I dont know, it has it all. Not my typical style, but there was something about her that I just loved. Perhaps a Modern Joni Mitchell, but in the pop genre. Just terrific...I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC-ZtTjJOU0&spfreload=1

Probably because it was boring and didn't stand out from the dozens of radio songs that sounded like it at the time. I didn't enjoy that (tropicana, camp out on the beach in front of a bonfire and play music all night because we're trust fund kids trend).

Taylor Swift is on a different plane of reality than this girl.

Just my opinion, of course.

Shes on a differet PLAIN alright

Now what would be YOUR reason for saying Taylor Swift is on a different plane of reaity? because she is rich?

I wonder how somebody boring would have this sort of a bio?

Jess Penner is a cheerful and cheeky, creatively ADD artist from Los Angeles. Raised on a banana farm in Hawaii; Jess is also a dinner party throwing, hen raising, people loving, thrift store shopping, self professed tomboy who hates musicals and tilapia but secretly loves painfully slow BBC miniseries and booty dancing alone in her bedroom. Since signing her first record deal at age 15 - Jess has spent the last 18 years making a career as a professional musician via touring, album sales, licensing deals, and working as a songwriter / producer.

Professional Highlights:

Numerous placements in film, TV, commercial campaigns, and web series. Television clients include ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, MTV, VHI, Lifetime, and The OC. Commercial campaigns for brands including : Payless Shoes, Disneyland, JC Penney, Sony Playstation, Bose, T-mobile, Jergens, Ford, Edison, Days Inn, Dannon, Tesco, X-Box, Days Inn, Belk, Maltesers

Over 1000 career live performances (including every state in the US), as well as international tours in Europe, the Mediterranean, Canada and Asia. Opened for FUN., Ian Archer (Snow Patrol).

Commercial appearances (singer/actress) in national ad campaigns (Days Inn, Glade) and Talent (Alloy Entertainment).

Featured performer at the 2014 Sundance Film Festival.

I streamed a few of her other songs and I have come to the conclusion that her songs bored me. I won't even argue about it. But it's good that you found someone new to listen to.

“She’s Jess Penner – a thoroughly 21st century pop star. It’s no surprise advertisers and TV music supervisors have warmed to Penner’s bubbly indie electro-pop sound — it fits snuggly between the off-kilter quirkiness of The Shins and the ass shaking glitz of Katy Perry. And whereas scoring a popular, radio-friendly hit often comes at the expense of depth, Penner manages to weave genuine pieces of humanity along with an element of mood into her songwriting without sacrificing the airy pleasantness of the music. What this means to you is that you can listen in the car, with the windows down, bobbing your head, singing along, and still feel good about yourself.” – Jeff Bogle, Popdose (www.popdose.com)

There's really nothing special about her songs. There are no hooks that make me want to listen again and again. No musical hooks. No lyrical hooks. No catchy melody. It's plain ordinary.

I thought I said I wasn't gonna argue? Okay, goodnight.

Are you deaf?

Listen to the chorus, Here come the Sunshine, hooks all over the place, Arron man, get a clue dude.

Why do I bother....

You're allowed to like her dude. I just don't get it. There's just many artists out there who sound like her and sing the same songs. The most famous of them all Colbie Caillat & Sara Bareilles, Natasha Bedingfield.

Check out Brighter Than The Sun by Colbie Caillat, Charlie.

I know but you had an arrogtant reply, yet you dont hear any hook in this song.

You have to see the bullseye to hit it.

I guess if you only write lyrics, you may be deaf to what a hooky song is.

I mean this hook is as strong as anything taylor Swift has written.

Love Story? Its a love story baby blah blah blah LOL

I said she was a Taylor Swift Alterntaive, not Taylor Swift.

From somebody who has written his fair share of pop tunes, this girl is great, whether or not she becomes a houshold name, who knows. Thats how this business goes.

I speak as an avid consumer of music of all genres as well as a songwriter.

My reply would have been nicer hadn't you out right attacked Ms Swift. I mean you even attacked her looks. What the hell got into you? Are you this girls manager? Did Taylor hurt your feelings? You were vicious dude. Vicious.

I said she sings better, she does, i said she writes better, she does, i said shes cuter, my opinion.

I didnt attack her, She reminds me of taylor that is why I made the comparison. with the sma e breaks she could be worth 200 million too.

I think she has more soul than Taylor Swift.

But if you want to argue about something, know what you are talking about. Look up hook. The song is loaded with them, particuarly the chorus.

Sweet tune, Hint, there is a hook to start the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhhX_Uwv8Mg

Well nothing about her reminds me of Taylor Swift.

And I have yet to hear any of Jess' songs that can top White Horse but that's my opinion.

It's easy to make Taylor Swift the bigger badder artist, when she has all the money and idoltry behind her. and you can feel "right"

if you remove that, you got jess verse taylor.

And I think there is more simialrity in songs than you think

Put them both on open mic with just their acoustic, then well see.

It's hard for people to break trhough when people adapt the attitude you do, PROVE shes better than Taylor Swift, anything that dont amount to dollars, will be a lost argument right?

I dont really care, Shes not my demographic, but she caught my ear, and if she was at least 30, she might be, id date her, shes adorable.

I gave her music a chance. I listened to four songs. What the hell more can you ask of me? Come on dude. It's not cool to force music on to people that way. I believe that is called gherming.

So, you dont like it. But you answered me like it was obvious she was no good, and your reasoning was wrong.

I mean, I know u have a cut with i take this beer, and all, but do you think you write better than this girl?

Me? I dont think i do.

Liking is one thing, talent is another.

As far as my songwriting goes I don't have an ego. I'm not a serious writer. It's just a hobby. Plus I don't write serious songs. Just look at my Jello one. That's what I normally write. Stupid things like that. I'll save the serious ones to everyone else. Her and I write different songs but if you wanna compare us then that's fine.

I never said she was no good. I said I found her songs boring. I find a lot of recording artists songs boring. People find mine boring.

The sun still comes up the next day.

But you said, the reason why her song was not a big hit, was because it was boring.

if you dont like her, you say, i didnt care for it, or say it sucks if you want, but you tried to give me a songwritign reason why it sucked, and you were way off. If the girl writes for all those licensing deals and does TV spots, she obviously has a strong handle on hooks, but u said it contained none. LOL

I dont think she is hurting, she's doing better than anybody on this forum, so there is no reason to feel badly for her, she has had more success than most artists ever will

I know what hooks are. They weren't strong enough to make me want to listen again, meaning they did not hook me in. Her lyrical hook did not hook me in and neither did her melodic hook or musical hook.

Of course I know what hooks are. You just misunderstood & maybe I didn't make it clear enough.

But you dont, because the hook in this song is MASSIVE

And as if taylor Swifts songs are all amazing to you the first listen, and as if you arent conditioned to like her music the way she is promoted.

its been proven, the more you listen to something, the more you start to like it, so ya think that MIGHT have something to do with Taylor Swifts enormous following?

You will never have a massive audience without being promoted massively on radio, and everywhere.

Ok the Grateful Dead managed to sell out everywhere they went without radio play, thats cause their live music was their appeal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect

Well Charlie, she must do something that sets herself apart from the other female singers who write and perform the same music she does. I already mentioned the top ones. Do you honestly believe she is that original? There are hundreds out there who are similar to her. You can probably find a lot of them in Nashville, Los Angeles and New York.

Do you think Taylor Swift is original?

Lets take two famous people. Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift.

Why is Taylor Swift so much more famous and popular?

Why do you think Taylor Swift is original?

No one is all that original. As the Barenaked Ladies say (who ironically wrote more original songs than most anyone) woo hoo hoo it's all been done, all been done before.

Ok, so why are you arguing the originality point?

hey, is this a far cry from this?
Not really, same beat, same cheerleading video, only 30 years apart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E-Zrg9CB_Q

You obviously aren't getting it. If you're a relatively unknown and you want people to see you, why would you do what everyone else at the time is doing?

That song that you think should be a hit was released in 2011 which was the end of the hawaiian sounding beach music trend on mainstream radio. Bad timing on her part. Maybe it would have been a hit if it came out sooner. Maybe not.
Either way she missed the wave.

I'll be expecting a outcry from The Crew on this subject, lol

Everybody have a nice Easter. I swore I heard the easter bunny on the roof. No, that was gas.

No Your missing the point, TAYLOR SWIFT IS ONE LUCKY BROAD. Freaking Dolly Parton and Reba never had that kind of fan craze, as they are two iconic musical treasures.

And again, your asking jess why shes n ot original, but you didnt answer why Taylor is? Shes not done anything new, ever.

people like her, THAT is your answer. For whatever reason, she resonates, which is a skill, absolutely, being able to speak to a generation is nothing to sneeze at.

But this originality thing, is getting funny. Shes playing the same 4 chords woody guthrie played

Well whatever. If any of you like this girls music you should put your money where your opinions are and buy her music. Support indie artists.

And that's the bottom line cause Aaron and obviously Charlie said so.

I'm beginning to wonder when you'll realize that I don't really care for Taylor Swifts music. I like a few of her songs and I know that she plans every aspect of her tour. She has near 100 % decision making powers on nearly everything she does. She is lucky yes but she is also that damn good. You don't keep a fan base and then grow it out of pure luck. She is a force.

yes, but she had to be put in the place to get her fanbase.

Shes talented, shes good at what she does, but so is Carrie underwood or Kacey Musgraves, but the two of them together probably couldn't sell more tickets than Swift alone.

But the music and the songwriting? is their a massive gap between the three?

When people scream, I love Taylor Swift, they love TAYLOR SWIFT.

I'm more a fan of the persons music, and that's what I judge by

I think Lily Allen is a better writer than all 3 combined. You're always gonna find a better writer or a better singer and a better performer if you look for it.

As far as the 3 you mentioned, Kacey Musgraves is more my style. I love her. She also co wrote Miranda Lambert smash hit Mamas Broken Heart. That is an awesome song. BUT. Taylor is the youngest to write a number 1 hit by herself and perform it (Our Song). So you can't look past that accomplishment. Carrie? Not even close to those two in songwriting talent but she seems to be progressing.

The only theoretical test would be to have all of Swifts songs, recorded by say, Carrie Underwood, without anyone knowing who Swift was, and if it were her songwriting, you would expect Underwood to be as big as Swift, or even bigger because she is lights out a better singer, and looks like the all American girl.

My hunch is she would not enjoy the same success. Its TAYLOR SWIFT the fans like. But thats true about most famous artists, it's the person, they see themselves up there.

But it doesn't solve the songwriting and music thing, and since our job is to write songs, what the hell are we shooting at?

Also Taylor signed with a new start up label. She and her mom had to actually bake cookies and make craft things to give to the radio djs who were playing her songs. I also read her dad paid 120,000 dollars to buy a percentage of the label and it's not like they were wealthy. I saw a documentary and there was struggling.
She wasn't handed the chance to succeed. She scouted out her own future co writers and producers, not the other way around which is more common.

This girl was destined to be a superstar.

And at times she was lucky. She got on the rascal flatts tour because eric church played too loud and they kicked his band off the tour and called her up.

Soon after that she began to get noticed.

Nah. Taylor Swifts music was for teenagers. That's who her base was at the start. Tswift songs would never work for Carrie. Carrie is 18-49.

but before that...she was not noticed? every indie artist i know of shares that.

She was noticed at showcases in Nashville. Scott Borschetta quit his job to make a label and be the first to sign her. He clearly knew she was the one. But it was a start up label so they had to do a lot of the grunt work themselves at the start.

He THOUGHT she was the one, and happened to be right.

Do you know how many Scott Borschettas and Taylor Swifts there probably were in the same year who did the same exact thing, but failed?

People use the big success story to justify what went down.

We only know Swifts story because she became famous.

There was Mary Jones, WOW she was great, a surefire cant miss talent, agents were fighting over her day and night, until one finally won out.

Btw Mary now works as Vacuum cleaner sales manager at Sears

This is what two adults arguing over Taylor Swift in the early morning hours looks like. Kids, say no to drugs. Unless you're in pain, then medicate yourself with a joint. It works and there's no shame in it. Other than that, stay away from drugs. And me. And stay in school cause it's cool. Also don't take candy from strangers unless a stranger places an an egg in a field for you to find. Then take it. It's safe. I promise.

In case I don't see you, good afternoon, good evening and goodnight.

TTFN. Ta ta for now.

Yoink. Goodnight!

This gal's got both of them beat:

Raelyn Nelson Band: Brother

No Autotune, just a guitar and herself. I dont hear one off note, and shes playing live with no effect.

whats the main difference here, one girl is singing in a home, and one in front of a z-100 sign. One girl has perfect pitch, the other..doesnt. One girl has no mic, the other a radio broadcast mic feed, and dont sound as good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqeW-blaKjM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUa0pVDGuYA

All Right!,
To your neutral corners! At the sound of the bell start one upping each other! Now the decision, I hate to do this, is both of these gals are excellent!

Man, you guys are going to have to get over this.The first thing you are going to have to realize that there are THOUSANDS of people who don't get the attention they should because they just don't gain traction with the audience. There are thousands that go through labels, have millions put behind them and just don't go anywhere.

There are a few that get through and everyone wonders how they did it. It cannot be answered.

As always, you are only looking at a very small piece of the puzzle.You are looking at songs and voice only and it is much much more than that. It is FAN BASE. She has an enormous personal way about her that others don't. She has always gone the extra miles when other faded out. And if her label deal had not kicked in, she would still be out there right now, working her butt off.

It was not $120,000 Aaron. It was $230,000 for a 3% share of the company. Her Dad was a Merril lynch employee. They were not struggling, but they were not rich either. They built a company around her. Scott Borchetta, who moved to town to be a bass player, had worked his way up as a record excutive and producer. He quit his job to manage and produce her.
I know of one artist whose boyfriend put $7.5 million dollars into her career. They failed miserably. Hollywood actors and movie people throw money like that away rountinely, and they miss too.

The whole time she was building her catalogue and skills, she was also building FAN BASE. She was in the forefront of the TWITTER/MYSPACE/FACEBOOK generation and did it better than anyone else.

Her first song, "Tim McGraw' was written when she was in High School for a contest. She wrote it by herself.

Charlie, her songs have RESONATED with older co-writers (Liz Rose just called her a complete genius, when I saw her last Wed.) she built a connection with critics, the music academy, awards acadamies, musicians, jaded press, and her fans, most of which who DO NOT BUY MUSIC. They buy hers.

She works harder than others, she designs everything about her image and all the people work for HER, not the other way around. She makes every decision on every thing, from recording, to publicity, to tours, to costumes, to videos.

And she is now the co-owner of the label, BIG MACHINE (because the other major labels turned her down and said she would never go anywhere without the "Nashville Big Machine" behind her) that label now EMPLOYS, Tim McGraw, Reba McEntire, Martina McBride, AND RASCAL FLATTS (whose previous label Lyric Street (DISNEY)folded about five years ago.

Her music grows with her audience and vice versa and even now when she is moving to a more pop oriented audience (most would say she has always been there)her existing audience is going with her. She is not losing anybody. That almost NEVER happens.

So she is UNDENIABLE. You can try but it doesn't work.

This girl is not bad. I hope she does well, seems like she has some accolades. To me she is pretty much like a lot I hear on every writers night in this town, and a lot of the vocal patterns are frankly very Taylor esque. She may have been doing them the same time, but if she has come on the scene in the past 6 -7 years, chances are she was influenced by Taylor.

There are a lot of artists out there. Some are great. Some are not so great. Some might be better singers, better writers, but rarely are they great entertainers, marketers, on top of all the other things. And for whatever reason, don't get the same audienc e reaction. But I wouldn't look for another one to come along that Iconic for a while. They only happen about every 15 years.

The last was Garth. The most recent was Taylor.

MAB

Hey Marc.....I agree with every word you just said.
I wish this girl luck too but she is just too much like everybody else which is probably a GOOD THING...lol

Catchy Chorus too.

The first time I heard the song Tim McGraw I said to my wife what a great idea for a song to have TIM in it.....lol
Taylor never had the voice but it's improved and it's ok BUT her Melodies are amazingly and disturbingly catch and her words while really NARROW found a huge Audience....young girls who buy a lot of music. NOW....IF Boomers bought a lot of new music I'd be famous instead of on the [naughty word removed] pile lol...But that is NOT to be so what the heck I write for fun now....Could play golf but this is more fun. HAPPY EASTER.....Wonder what kind of Music Jesus would have liked....Hey maybe that can be my next song...LOL

WOULD JESUS BE A COUNTRY MUSIC FAN?
NOW that is a hoot and I just might write that song.
B

"As always, you are only looking at a very small piece of the puzzle.You are looking at songs and voice only and it is much much more than that. It is FAN BASE"

As always, you are trying to make it about something else. Im not.
Im trying to discuss songwriting and musicianship. And it unfortuante when one is better at it than another, one can be rich and famous and another cant. Im not concerned WHY, im concerned that it exists.

"The whole time she was building her catalogue and skills, she was also building FAN BASE. She was in the forefront of the TWITTER/MYSPACE/FACEBOOK generation and did it better than anyone else. "

And, NOBODY else works their butt off, and builds their fan base. Marc, sometimes things just happen, we cant try to figure it out, shes enormously popular, but you are making it sound like anybody can do what she has done. They cant. Most people cant even get 10 people to download their song, and millions of people cant even get people to download their music for free. Even though they work their tail off.

There is no explanation, she is an anomaly. Most massive pop stars are. if there was a way to harness her technique, everybody would be doing it.

"She works harder than others, she designs everything about her image and all the people work for HER, not the other way around. She makes every decision on every thing, from recording, to publicity, to tours, to costumes, to videos. "

Not sure how you can assume this, you dont even know her. Many artists even those who have made millions work hard, but dont have Taylor Swift kind of success, she is the anomaly.

You have a clear cut reason for her success. so my question is, why arent you enjoying the same success as Taylor Swift? Why arent your students?

Hard work defintly pays off, but I can name 20 indies who work just as hard, and barely pay the rent with music. And many more who dont pay the rent with it.

using the most powerful and commercially successful woman in show biz as a learning tool for the other 99.99% of the crowd, is too much of a stretch.

Why cant I talk about songwriting and singing, if I want to? Does every point have to be a business point?

I think your a smart guy Marc...but Sheesh!

Sweet, you might not believe me, but maybe you will believe the guy who discovered Taylor Swift

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qem0CPvJe8 Cue to :20

Charlie,

How far out of the way of the point to you go to? I AM talking about songwring, but also about the whole package. If you want one example of many I can give you one.

On the song "OUR SONG", one of her first big hits. Where we have heard that a billion times, before "our song" was what we danced to when we got married, our song was playing when our child was born, etc.

She made it about NOISES. 'A slamming door, talking low cause your Mama don't know..." it was saying the same thing that we have heard again a million times before and she said it different. and it resonated. And she was like that in most of her songs. She just said it in a way that resonated with her fans, with critics, with the press, with the public.

I am saying NOT EVERYONE CAN do what she has done. They can have looks, talent,money behind them, political power (hollywood actors) and they DON'T HAPPEN. There is no explaining it.

And singing? They used to puch EVERY NOTE of FAITH HILLS VOCALS. That is most artists now, autotuned through every thing. I have been listening to this same silly argument for five years, it gets very boring.

You are going to have to accept that she has connected with her fans well. You can either give her that, and go on about your business or just continue to complain that someone you don't deem worthy has succeeded where others you deem worthy don't. Join the crowd. Everyone has it.

Why I haven't I? I have no idea. I don't claim to be perfect. Why havebn't my students? One is doing well, Frankie Ballard, One is on the Voice, Megan Linsey, there are others in various stages of development. Will they? Have no idea. That is not my responsibility. Mine is to give them some basic groundwork in writing, performing, networking and business and point them in the direction of others. And yes, they all work hard.

Some succeed. Some don't. It is never fair, It is never right. But it is much more than just playing and singing and throwing things out there. It is a business. It is a school. And it is luck. All the things you don't care to acknowledge. I have to acknowledge them because I have to live in the real world.

MAB

At First they made fun of the Beatles Name, Their Hair, said that they couldn't write their own music or play their own instruments. BUT They forgot one thing their unusual new songs and harmonies and they were cute just took them into orbit. AND when they hooked up with George Martin and used and orchestra they went on a moon shot. I remember the first time I heard Sgt. Pepper I almost had an orgasm....couldn't believe that was the same band as I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND...Martin packaged it differently and EVERYTHING was new....and guess what THERE was a thousand new bands of wannabees copying them...Easiest way is to just do what's out there BUT if you want to change the music world you have to be a NEW ONE OF A KIND that's Different and Exciting. ALSO....all business engage in Targeted Selling and it's very important. You don't want to market men for lipstick.

The real world clearly shows us, that we have no control over d t making it. If we did, anybody who listened to you would, forget be a star, would have an indie cut!

All we can do is show up, write good music, try to improve, do what IS in our power, but not be surprised when nothing comes o fit.

i;d much rather learn how Jess Penner has made a nice dent in the business, than try to repeat what Taylor Swift has done.

Just like songs, there is a little thing called believability.

I admire people who can pay the rent with music, nowhere near the norm, but at least, I see evidence of it being possible.