JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback A.I. Assisted Music Forum A.I. Tips, Tricks and Beware Warnings!

This is a new Pinned Post for anyone to ask questions or offer tips and tricks to get better results from A.I.

It is also for any concerns or warnings. See below and share any tips or tricks you have. Like it or not, this is only going to become more normal and powerful. It is akin to when people first developed writing and alphabets to store and pass on info, art and culture.

Also beware:

For those who think they can upload this A.I. stuff as a commercial product, even though legally you CAN do it, beware. I am starting to see common orchestration techniques with my songs where backing melodies and riffs are used over and over. It may happen in human created music, but the A.I. seems to repeat stuff that sounds really cool (usually outside your original melody) in the background of tracks. I can see where this will end in lawsuits if any label backed act has that riff or musical hook line and then your A.I. music ALSO has it. Or, when A.I. creations start getting sued by OTHER A.I. creations. Then it is simply about who has the most money to buy justice.

I thought maybe it was just "my" choice that led to these common styles in my own music, but for the first time I heard an exact riff on a friends new song which has the same exact riff as one of my songs from 4 months ago. THAT is a problem! Humans cop riffs all the time, but once lawsuits start to fly, A.I. creators are going to be in trouble. I have gone back and redone some of my favorite tracks recently to remove certain musical flourishes (again, that I love) to try and protect from future issues. My melodies and words are not the danger, it is counter melodies and signature riffs provide by A.I. that are an issue.

I will repost this as it's own post to folks might see it.

Well, that's what I've been saying since day one. It creates based on what's been done already. Riffs and counter melodies can be "composed" too

But if you choose to let AI do it, maybe you just write lyrics , so it's what demo services have been doing forever.

They don't work weeks on their filler riffs and melodies, more like on the fly saying....good enough.

I think the bigger lawsuits are when it steals from hit songs, uses likenesses of singers voices, mimicks a band sound. I'm sure I could get it to play a u2 production, and it basically be playing a u2 record with my lyric.

Everything is stolen with ai.

And, ironically, it learns, so anything we put into it , it can use that for somebody else's work.

Especially weird if you have a very unique lyric idea, that will be used partly in something else.

So not only will it steal from famous artists, it will steal our ideas too

This has ALWAYS been a problem even with top session players. If you are not an A list client, you get the B list riffs from the catalog they have of them. Legal precedence protects say a session player who plays similar riffs on many songs, because they can't "plagiarize" themselves. So I am guessing if he plays the same riff on two recordings, on won't be able to sue the other. But with A.I., none of that will apply.

It has gotten worse. A.I. has now copied MY melody from one song to an entirely different song in a different genre with different lyrics. Even the key is different, but it is IDENTICAL. I have created a "problem" playlist with 2 blatant infringement examples. I upload my own songs to start each session, but this used my own recording on a different song, on another. So that likely means it is doing it across artists. I also got a result that was random but it included 2 bad demo quality recordings of another song entirely. At first I chalked it up to being a dud. But then I realized it was someone else's song! It wasn't good, but it was clearly a finished song demo they had uploaded. I am trying to find it in my rejected tracks. I have done over 7000 songs and I don't remember which one I was working on when that happened.

Has anyone else had this happen?

Brian

As I think this through, my SUNO assisted song for "Already Broken" reminds me a lot of Skid Row's "Youth Gone Wild"...

Peace,

Dave

Speaking of reusing "riffs". I had 2 songs produced by the same demo service from Nashville, but not at the same time. They were a few months apart, but I immediately recognized the riff. It was used in one demo song of mine before. LOL
As for the subject of AI personally, I have uploaded my own audio, and when I get one I like, I extract the vocal and drop it into my daw, and produce a song around the vocal, and edit the vocal too. Some of them I hire a singer. Others I don't. But it's fun and nice to learn to produce and mix in a daw. I use FL Studio. It extracts stems, and audacity will, too, but needs a plugin for it. Perhaps I'll share some here in this forum. I imagine you and everyone has seen the latest about copyright? This article: U.S. Copyright Office says AI gener...�� if a human contributes to or edits it
Just a FYI: So far the UK and Australia accepts songs using AI for sync briefs.

I can understand the points you've made and they are good ones. But you can listen to a lot of pop and rap songs and they built a song based upon what others had written before whether it be the lyric or the melody. There are a lot of songs out there in those genres which are like that and have been for decades. The other thing is, as you mentioned, you can send your hard earned money into one of numerous Nashville scam studios that will send back some generic idea of the vision they have for your music. Borrowing upon riffs done hundreds of times for other unsuspecting fools who just wanted to believe they had something to give the world musically. To me, what the music industry has done to aspiring artists for decades is now coming back to bite them. What goes around comes around. Of course they hate A.I. It takes a good majority of the industry and so called "professional opinions" and tosses it in the trash where it belongs and always did. It really is all in perspective. For those gifted with the ability to sing, play an instrument, compose music, etc., they have always had the market cornered. People who can just write lyrics, no matter how good they are, never stood a chance. People who can play but can't write lyrics, never stood a chance. People who can sing but can't play or write lyrics, never really stood a chance. But AI changes that. It makes it where someone lacking in one or more of those areas can make up for it. In the right perspective, use of modern technology is an instrument in itself. That's just my two cents on it.

Well, then there is also the topic of the Six Song Country Mashup, it's been out at least 10 yrs and I'm sure many have heard or read about it. I know some peeps wanna hollar AI steals, etc etc. but what about using a formula like in this mashup, as the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it, just alter it 🤣 ; Six Song Mashup or using the same chords to make multiple songs. Grant it I don't play an instrument, but just sayin' ... I know professional songwriters, are using Suno now to create demos for pitching ... AI is here and not going anywhere ... it is a tool for many songwriters, esp those that are lyricists only or can't sing or even create a melody for songs. I know what I hear in my head is not what falls out of my mouth. 😁🤣

I have an instrumental that "borrows" from a classic rock song on purpose. So I uploaded that portion and wouldn't you know that A.I. grabbed it and made some killed instrumental tracks with it. So I quickly wrote some lyrics and ran it again and bam, a really cool live sounding loose jam like we used to do at clubs in the 80s and 90s. We would often do 1 prog rock long jam each night based around a well known riff from a current song. In this case, it is a bass riff from the 70s and it sounds so great, but I can't do anything fun with it because it is clearly THAT riff. Sort of like a rap sample where if you made a penny they would take it and may sue for damaged too.

Courts will be packed. I think Copyright needs a MAJOR update to be on top of any of this. I hear blatant infringements all the time on radio/streaming. It just takes the wrong [naughty word removed] to get in big trouble. Most artists let it go since most of them lifted bits from others, but some, like Don Henley, are raging jerks. Of course he is totally fine ripping off ticket buyers by lip synching his vocal parts while the ban plays to click tracks, but it's okay when he cheats.

Hello, Marilyn, if you come back... or if anyone else has a comment on this, would like to know... so you say that you think professional songwriters are "using Suno now to create demos for pitching." So, is this just something you heard someone say or what? Do you totally trust your source? I would badly like to know the answer to this. If what you say is true, it's truly a game changer for someone like me because I do recording sessions with pros and it ain't cheap. It's awesome, very much so, but it's costly.

Right now I would not use any AI for a demo to be pitched. Until all the legal, ethical and financial questions are answered there are a lot of insiders who "wont touch anything with even a hint of AI". The quote is from a friend who is a music lawyer and publisher. Being able to show who all the musicians were and the paperwork they signed as a "work for hire" Will be a good way to show the pluggers you are serious about things when pitching a demo.

AI is still a clunky tool and it's fingerprints are easy to see. By this time next year that may not be true. Then all bets are off.

The other topic about whether AI borrows what you upload - if you have any music in distribution like CDBaby or have any original music on you tube - AI already has it in it's databases. Removing it will be next to impossible. Personally I think that since it learns, as you upload songs it figures out what you are looking for and feeds it back to you. Like face book does with politics.

Brent Baxter, a lyricist from Arkansas who has written for Lady A, Allan Jackson and a host of others use to be adamantly against AI but has since changed his mind. He will put the lyrics and melody (from a co-writer) into AI and produce a demo in several genres to pitch to artists. When demos use to cost him $300-1,000 each he can cover for $10/month. A recording company signed a AI artist to a recording contract just months ago and Sandy Ramos who has one of the most famous pitch sites in Nashville has said they will pitch AI songs if she thinks they’re good enough. I figure within the next five years they will have a Grammy for AI songs. AIis out of the box and you can’t put it back. A lot of producers and studio musicians will have less work but the best will still have to do the final recording for a artist or group.

See my comment below.

See CTthomas' comment as well. Yes, pro songwriters and indie songwriters upload their work tapes to Suno, it's their lyrics and their melody, and suno creates a song which songwriters can then pitch for artists' recording considerations. But you have to let ppl know it's an AI demo. I know songwriters who have tons of lyrics and can't afford the demo costs of 300 and up continually. And there's no guarantee that the costly demo is gonna go anywhere anyhow. At least using suno you can make changes at your own convenience and at little cost. It's also great to use for ideas, etc. It's a great AI tool as well. AI music has been used in commercials already.

I guess if we think about it, ppl have been using other ppl's music to train themselves for decades on copyrighted works. Ppl play songs by others to practice their instrument or vocal skills, etc etc. And use other artists' musical influences to produce their own, and may sound like. We love the flow, the emotion, the cadence, etc. We try to mimic but make it our own. Am I wrong in my thinking? lol 🤔

All I know is that AI is here to stay, in whatever field, whether it's the arts, academia, or even in chat applications.

All you need is a guitar vocal and sing it , Not full demos or stolen tracks from fuking AI

Why don’t robots trust humans with secrets?
Because they always “leak.”

Having been in nashville for over 20 years, I promise you, they don't listen to "guitar vocals"........not from anyone unless they are already famous.

I've pitched guitar vocals to publishers , mostly sync stuff. They took a couple , I gave up pitching about 4 years ago. No more for me , 20 years is enough

Well if 20 years is enough, what are you still doing here bothering people?? LOL

We got asked for a pitch this week on a cowrite with another JPFer where we used and disclosed we used an AI voice to cover her vocals in a country twang because she just doesn't sound like that, and they said it is 100% fine to pitch it, as they would cover it anyway in their own demo session before giving it to an artist. For me, this is the perfectly good way to us A.I. No harm to anyone. We are no longer playing live, so now we cqan just write songs, use AI for demo production on our end, pitch to this major punblisher who has active artists, then they will listen and decide. I even processed it it to a country style to give them a better idea of what it would sound like, they loved it even more. We just changed one line that was a little too edgy for them and are going to process it again and pitch. If they love it, they may follow that for the d3emo session, otherwise, they will adjust as they want before they give it to their label artist they have in mind. Everyone wins. We can keep writing, they can keep pitching, if the artists love it, they will do their thing and everyone wins. AI is just part of production now. I do no labels cheat and go right from AI to production often using tracks to save money and time and since they are partnering with AI, expect entirely AI artists soon enough. I expct anywhere that budget is tight they will go right from Suno to locking it to film.