JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Songwriter Message Forum Absolute Essential #1

I've been conducting a workshop called "The Five Absolute Essentials of Songwriting Success." Having made the observation that most compulsive creative types approach their careers with either the wrong strategy (or with no strategy at all) I've designed a basic, simple 5-step guide that can help any [naughty word removed] along the road toward realizing his or her visions of creating meaningful songwriting activity.

I use the words "basic" and "simple" purposefully because, admittedly, at least a few of these 5 essentials could seem like absolute no-brainers to any writer with a modicum of intelligence. So, please try not to be offended (or accuse me of being a self-righteous, ornery, pedantic old song-dog) because I feel compelled to remind you that we all need to (trumpet fanfare, please)...

(Absolute Essential #1) WORK ON SONG-CRAFT.

So, how do we start improving our songwriting skills? First, we pay more attention to the songs we love, the songs that have affected us emotionally, the songs that may have even inspired us to become songwriters in the first place. We go back and listen to those songs again with more discerning ears, while observing the qualities in those compositions that originally caught our attention and continue to appeal to us.

What I'd like to suggest is this: We are a community of creative souls. Ostensibly, we all care passionately about songs and the craft of constructing them. So, why don't we share some of our own personal thoughts and impressions about those impact songs amongst ourselves. I'll get the ball rolling.

It's likely that many of you will find this to be a very corny confession. (What follows is a paragraph from page 54 of my book, Makin' Stuff Up, secrets of song-craft and survival in the music-biz...)

"No recording had ever had more impact on me than the lilting Bacharach/David composition, Close To You, the smash that launched the Carpenters into superstardom. I remember pulling up in front of (my bandmate, Bob) Segarini's tiny Hollywood Hills cottage in my VW Beetle when that single came on the radio. I sat transfixed, unable to extract my ears from Karen's clear, resonate alto, a sound so rich it seemed to fill every square centimeter of air in the atmosphere. I listened until the final nanosecond of the fade, knowing I'd just experienced a perfectly crafted song, performed by what I surmised right then and there would become one of the greatest pop voices of its era."

I'm fundamentally a rocker at heart. So what was it about that syrupy, middle-of-the-road, pop confection that hit me right in the center of my heart?

Well, obviously Karen Carpenter's magnificent voice was a big part of the appeal, as well as brother Richard's sparse, yet textured arrangement -- with those multi-tracked, clustered background vocals. But, listen to that first melodic arpeggio on the words, "Why do birds..." on the third, the fifth and the ninth of the tonic chord. That's classic Bacharach. How many songs do you hear these days that start with the notes of "Three Blind Mice." Would Close To You have had even 10% of the impact if "Why do birds..." had been warbled on the 3-2-1 notes of the scale? No way.

Even in the absence of a punchy snare drum, the groove of the track moves in easy syncopation under those uniquely Bacharachian chords, those beautifully crafted melodic phrases and hallmark-card lyrics. Listening to the song now, I see that it's more about what's not there than what is.

The melody, the voice and the arrangement were fresh. They stood out against the cluttered, aggressive textures of the day. The song was youthful, yet sophisticated; it was sweet, naive and emotionally fearless, an honest expression of the way it really feels to be head over heals in starry-eyed, newly discovered love.

As a songwriter in this new millennium, what can I learn from listening to this song, a song that had such a tremendous impact on me, nearly 40 years ago? I think there are two very obvious lessons here: First, writing a great melody makes a huge difference. And secondly, honest emotion is key to the impact of any song.

So, in this discussion, I invite any songwriter who might be interested to return to a fave or two. Listen again in the light of today and share what it was about that particular composition that gave it such personal appeal to you.

By doing this, maybe we'll all learn something about how we can improve our own song-craft.

Thanks for indulging in this exercise. And much success to all...

Rand Bishop
songwriter/producer/author - Makin' Stuff Up, secrets of song-craft and survival in the music-biz
http://www.makinstuffup.net

I have one completely corny song....know clue if its well written or not....has to do with how its sung, what hes saying and the music...takes me back....

"Make it with you" by Bread...

the other is "When you say nothing at all" by Keith Whitley...I think thats his name...Allsion Kraus sings it as well awesome song....

silly songs, but sing me one of those and Im all yours....:)

Hi Rand,

Thanks for sharing this excerpt from your book. The only thing I like better than actually songwriting, is talking about songwriting, even that's exciting to me.

When I think about the songs I love, the list is verrrry long, although my favorite is "Almost Like A Song" written by Archie Jordan and Hal David and sung by Ronnie Milsap. (thank you gentlemen!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbeQa2hmznk

Appreciated your candor about "Close To You". It takes a REAL MAN to be that honest. I'm very comfortable w/"corny" songs except for Muskrat Love, that one just doesn't do it for me. Now I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes get lost when musicians are discussing minors, majors, intervals, etc. and get highly technical when discussing the composition, but I know what I hear and I know when I "feel" something from a song that works. When you talk about the 123 I think of (another oldie) "Where The Boys Are" (gosh I love that song) and it starts out w/ "Where The Boys 123 and the "Are" drops alittle but those first 3 words go up up and up. Another case of the 1 2 3 and how it works.

Best,
Lynn

Excellent post, Rand.

The recording that has affected me most is Gordon Lightfoot's "Song for a Winter's Night." The guitar riff is a flowing fingerpicking passage of a flat seven with a one in the bass, moving to a four with a one in the bass, to a five with a seven in the bass, and then a one. It quickly became my "warm up" riff when picking up the guitar. It paints a winter scene, looking through a wooden framed window out to the moonlit woods that seems like a snow globe. I can see the oil lamp on the rough hewn table, casting enough of a glow to read the well worn letter unfolded sitting next to a glass of red wine. All of this is brought to mind through those simple chords ringing from a wood box and some steel strings.

Lightfoot's baritone sung 3 3 4 5 5 6 7 8 9 8 7 6..." I read again between the lines upon the page" 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 "The words of love you sent me." There's love, hope, longing. (8ve) 1 1 1 2 3 4 3 2 "If I could only have you near "
7 7 7 8 7 6 5 "to breathe a sigh or two.." No big jumps, scale passages with a vocal treatment like the romance of Schubert. Refined, like songs of the Dichterliebe, but rough hewn, like the scene it evokes.

It's a musical experience that is always the same to me. While other songs have changed--the mystery of the Eagles' "New Kid in Town" dissolving from a time when I couldn't figure out the chords to a time when more difficult chord changes are easy to hear and write even without an instrument present (years of reading charts takes away some of the mystery, that's good and bad I guess ). Even when listening to songs from my early youth brings changed perceptions, "Song for a Winter's Night" never changes. It's new yet it's old. I think it's older than I, older than Lightfoot.

The closest of my own recorded compositions is an acoustic guitar fingerpick isntrumental, "Papa Hawg." It also has a passage of that old flat seven with a one in the bass. But even "Papa Hawg" seems to change with time.

That's the song I chase, the song that chases me.

Hi Rand ....

Very nice and positive post!

A few of my favorites are ..You'll Never Walk Alone...I just
love to hear that song sung! I think it's such a positive song
and doesn't really matter to me who's singing it at the time...I would stop to listen to it. I think partly because the melody just keeps building and building and building and the message is inspirational and timeless..and also that melody is seamless.

And one that might not be on everyone's favorite list...Billy Joel's ..New York State of Mind. Billy has always been my favorite singer/performer because of his passion on the piano. and New York State of Mind...just sets a mood for me. Only been to the city a handful of times, but I go there immediately with that song.

best to you,
Kaley

Hi Rand,

This is an interesting thread!

Well, I just love the song “The Rose” written by Amanda McBroom and sung by Bette Midler. I went back and listened to it, to try and verbalize why. I love the opening, with the single notes on the piano and her singing with just those notes alone. The melody is so simple, and she sings so delicately that I can’t help but feel drawn in. Her voice is so pretty and clear.

Then as the lyric is talking about dreams and being afraid of failing and learning to live, the piano plays more in the background as if to support these ideas, giving strength to those ideas, and making me feel empowered as I listen. Yet it’s gentle and quiet.

There’s a couple pauses also, I think, that give a kind of understanding, and regard for such feelings. In the end, it comes back to how it began with the single notes and singing. The whole thing is like a phone call from an old friend…. because it says hello, has this discussion with me, then says goodbye, yet leaves me with a feeling of hope.

Kristi

Thanks for the terrific insights. Makes sense - and you picked an example that we can easily comprehend since it is so well know and was so successful. It was deceptively simple.

I guess complexity is not necessary.

Tom

At the risk of sounding trite, I have to go with "Imagine" John Lennon. The simplicity yet enormity of the lyric, the simplicity yet enormity of the piano with John's haunting vocals. It is in my opinion the perfect song. It captures the essence of the writer, the very essence- the idealist. My dream (no pun intended) as a writer is to find that one song deep in my soul that absolutely characterizes everything I am. Not to say I don't intend to write many other songs but I do hope at some point I am able to reach that part of myself and write my own "Imagine" whatever that may be.

Thanks everyone for jumpin' on this thread. So far, there have been some great examples of some great songs:

"Make It With You" (a very pretty song with that overt sexual innuendo all teens love)
"When You Say Nothing At All" (simple, beautiful, with absolute emotional honesty)
"Almost Like A Song" and "Song For a Winter's Night" I'm not that familiar with these titles. Mr. Dunbar, however, goes into detail as to why the Lightfoot song appeals to him - it seems to have a lot to do with the way the melody works over the chords, something I call the modality of a song.
"You'll Never Walk Along" (powerful, inspiration, melodic)
"New York State of Mind" (crafty, personal, passionate)
"The Rose" (perhaps one of the simplest and most perfect songs ever written, not to mention one of the most lucrative copyrights in the lexicon of pop music - Amanda McBroom is one of my best friends, and there's brief anecdote in my book about how she played that song for me in its infancy)
"Imagine" (courageous, inspirational, idealistic, quietly powerful, beautiful)

I'd love to hear more about the specifics of why your favorite songs appeal to you - I think it can really help us as writers if we put more thinking into what it is about great songs that draws us to them time and time again.

Keep 'em comin'. And don't be afraid to share your guilty pleasures. For instance - the first time I heard the Trogg's "Wild Thing," written by Chip Taylor, I got really turned on. The primitiveness of that song and the record with it's out-of-tune sexual undertones hit square in the bullseye of my teenaged hormones.

Rand Bishop
songwriter/producer/author Makin' Stuff Up, secrets of song-craft and survival in the music-biz
www.makinstuffup.net

This is a fun thread, and got me thinkin'. I often listen to the old crooners and Bing Crosby is one of my absolute favorites. He has a lot of 'schmoozy' songs that I really dig, and many would fit here so I'll just pick two like "An apple for the teacher" and "Yes Indeed", love those, allthough they might be pretty standard for the era.

Im not really conscious about why I love those old songs, but it might be "Yes Indeed" for the combination of a great blues groove with a nice warm fun feeling in the vocals, and "An apple for the teacher" for the rythm and the vocal phrasing.

Hello Rand. Not to sure if this is what you were looking for but felt to share none the less. I admire how some have really disected particuliars of the 'song'. For the most part I know what I like but cannot always find the words to describe the 'why'>

When I was seventeen years old (1975) a very close friend, who passed away about 4 years later, had created a audio cassette of selected artists and played it on my cousins cassette player. He had some Bread, James Taylor, CCR, and other popular artists/bands of the time.

He also had “Sunshine On My Shoulders” by John Denver.

At this point of my life I was aware of what was going on in the music world by what was being played on the popular radio stations and by what our bus driver had playing on his system on our school bus.

I had never heard of Denver, even though he had been around a while by ‘75 but not as much in Montreal, and was just taken by the honesty in his voice and the simplicity of the lyric. In my seventeen years on this planet, and during that ruff time of teenage years (not the child, not a man) here was someone who hit a chord with me.

From the opening rift to the final statement he had me. This was a song.

That introduction lead me to writing and over the years it has been him that has influenced not only my passion for it but in how I structure most of my lyrics.

Denver taught me how to write simple, direct lyrics and to this day I still keep his melodies in mind.

Since 1975 I have composed over three hundred songs, some have been put out there and have been successful in their own way, others lay un-used but kept as examples of the how the craft moves up and down.

Interestingly enough even though he was and is my main diet of music I do not believe I have ever written a song like his or for him. (I found that what he did was write those songs for me.)

Douglas

One of the things I like about Taylor Swift is her use of pauses and spaces in some of her melodies. For example, Hey Stephen, on her new cd Teardrops on My Guitar from her first cd. In each song, she draws out and spaces in the first lines to set the melody and anchor the songs. It is also interesting how she uses / or does not use / rhymes. She depends a lot on phrasing rather than on strict rhymes.

Tom

Here is one of my favorites - written by Kevin Emmrich of JPF. Wednesday Type of Girl.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=620106&songID=6312081


Tom

Mike, what do you think of Tony Rice's version of "Song For A Winters Night"? Tony does a lot of Gordon Lightfoot covers, and with class.

I'm like Doug, I can't put it into words but I have always liked Paul Simon's "American Tune" ( sorry Nubbin it's about immigration). I also like the way that Garfunkel sings it. It's not a simple song, at least to me. Paul changes chords like I change notes on a string. The bridge (..and I dreamed I was dying..) always gets to me. He did his job on my part and produced an unforgettable song. Ben

Ben, I love it, Tony does a great job on "Cold on the Shoulder" too. I like Sarah McLachlan's version of "Song for a Winter's Night" as well, completely different, almost reminiscent of Enya.

Hi Rand,

Great thread...

Time can make some songs timeless standards, while others age less fortunately, but usually a songs "meaning" remains fixed throughout time.

Joni Mitchell's "Both Sides Now" is now over 40 years old. Originally it was a fast walking tempo piece of baroque pop, written in her early twenties, but seemed wise beyond its years,
her singing how she looked at life poetically:

Rows and flows of angel hair
And ice cream castles in the air
And feather canyons everywhere
I've looked at clouds that way

Then more "realistically":

But now they only block the sun
They rain and snow on everyone
So many things I would have done
But clouds got in my way


...and she comes to see that it's clouds/life's/love's illusions that she recalls, and admits at the end of the last chorus "I really don't know life at all" and it's a forward look into
the beauty of possibility, with a full life ahead of her.

...and so we age with Joni, through her many styles and loves, and all the beautiful music along the way, and then in 2005, at the twilight of her recording career, she chooses to remake
"Both Sides Now" in a way that reflects who she's become: it's a slower jazzier walk, with a beautiful orchestral accompaniment, her voice an octave lower, full of cracks, wiser, more relaxed, well-within-itself...

...now...something unexpected happens when hearing these words 40 years later: it has become about her at the end of her career, and how, despite all the beauty shared and life lived and things learned, she can sing out that same line at the end, "I really don't know life at all"...and it is an achingly beautiful transcendent moment, for me. The song has become the "My Way" of a humble servant of life, love, and beauty...who realizes "the more you know, the more (you know) you DON'T know"..

...and it's also a new beginning for her, a full circle. Her youthful spirit is still pointed forward in this 2005 version, she stands before us proudly as someone who wants life's secrets, but wants life more.

Mike

Hi Rand, me again. Did I read correctly that you "weren't familiar w/the title" referring to "Almost Like A Song" sung by Ronnie Milsap? If you haven't heard the song I encourage you to click on the link above and please give a listen, but make sure you listen to the very end because he repeats the last verse and you don't want to miss it! Close your eyes, turn it up and enjoy!

Best,
Lynn

Both Sides Now - you are right. What a nicely crafted song. It is simple, unobvious and lovely.

Tom

The first song that ever absolutely blew me away lyrically, and still does to this day because it is so well written and has a universal meaning and appeal is Blowing In The Wind by Bob Dylan. The other one that also blew me away in the same way was Where Have All The Flowers Gone by Pete Seeger. I think that I have not heard another song since then that match either in their timeless meaning and qualities.

I love the old crooners, too. Bing, Perry Como and Eddy Arnold are soothing voices who interpreted their song selections with simple subtlety. (how many "S" words can the writer include in one sentence?) Karen Carpenter might even be considered a female crooner.

Question: What can you learn from those old Bing tunes that you can apply to writing a song in today's world?

Rand

Doug:

Excellent observation about the John Denver tune - simple, direct, unafraid to express pure, positive emotion. Once again, as I harp on so often - hit songs make people feel better.

Interesting, too. I was also living in Montreal when "Sunshine" was a hit - as a member of a colorful rock band called the Wackers (Elektra Records). I distictly remember a convertible screeching down Marcil Ave in NDG playing that song at max volume. I found that ironic enough to be memorable.

Another song that came out around that time that really captured my attention was "Ricky, Don't Lose That Number" by Steely Dan. It was the groove that got me first. Then, the tidiness of the production. But, ultimately, what a great composition - sophisticated, yet accessible and irresistable. A great groove is always seductive.

(Shameless plug alert) BTW, in my book there is a chapter describing an outrageous stunt the Wackers pulled on the eve of opening for the Doors at Carnegie Hall in around 1972.

Rand Bishop
songwriter/producer/author Makin' Stuff Up, secrets of song-craft and survival in the music-biz
www.makinstuffup.net

"American Tune" is absolutely one of the most brilliant compositions in the lexicon of pop songwriting. As is "Both Sides Now" - a song I reference in my book several times, (from page 65):

Both Sides Now is not only a perfect song, but a perfect example of a song in which the chorus changes every time it appears. The first chorus describes looking at clouds from both sides now, the second addresses love, and the third examines life; each chorus had to be different to accommodate these varied subjects. However, the icon-phrase of the song re-occurs at the very same rhythmic and melodic spot in each chorus; it is also unchanged in tense, thus enriching its meaning and maintaining its innate hookiness.

And then, Joni (who does she think she is, anyway?) Mitchell has the brass to slay us softly with her song, by reprising the language of the first chorus, while replacing the word cloud with the word life. Absolute genius. That a songwriter had that much skill, savvy and wisdom at a mere 24 years old … is entirely unfair to the rest of us tin-pan hacks.

(Obviously a song to admire and a level of writing to aspire to.)
Great call on those two!

Rand Bishop
songwriter/producer/author Makin' Stuff Up, secrets of song-craft and survival in the music-biz
www.makinstuffup.net

I found that Denver certainly had that down pat. He could right simple well thought out lyrics that did "make one feel good." That is mostly what I strive for as a writer and singer.

Doug

Another song, in a different vain, that I have always admired is Jan Arden's "Insensative" If you know it then you know what I mean. She captures all the emotions in that one. (If you don't the google it. She is worth it.)

I am humbled. Thank you, Lynn and Mike, for turning me on to two phenomenal songs that somehow slipped past my consciousness.

First, the verses of "Almost Like a Song" are almost like a hymn. Simple, both melodically and lyrically. Then the bridge begins to pick up the phrasing pace perfectly. The final verse is inverted into a higher, more intense counterpoint that hammers home the irony that this is a song about an experience that is itself like the song that the singer could never bring himself to write. The song is a performance piece that the right American Idol contestant would be wise to bring back to feature that dynamic range they all need to show. (I mean that in a good way, BTW).

"Song For a Winter's Night" (which evidently has been covered by dozens of artist) is a genuine masterpiece. So incredibly beautiful in the counterpoint of melody and chords, with lyrical imagery that succeeds in capturing a very specific scene and emotional state with absolute precision. Wow! I'm blown away.

And, both songs are very sad and poignant. As songs are emotional, all emotions are fair game for great writing, and there is an audience for all of it - as long as the message is delivered with sincerity (good craft helps too - certainly in the case of these two gems).

Rand Bishop
songwriter/producer/author Makin' Stuff Up, secrets of song-craft and survival in the music-biz
www.makinstuffup.net

For me, one of the most perfectly written songs I know is "What a Wonderful World" as recorded by Louis Armstrong.

For me the song is celebrating the beauty of life, not in spite of, but maybe because of, its impermanence. That's a funny kind of happy/sad dichotomy for most and I think it's very difficult to capture that notion in a simple lyric. But this says it all:

I hear babies crying
I watch them grow
They'll learn much more
Than I'll ever know
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world

This notion is captured in the melody as well, which follows a progression scrambling major and minor chords - a very faint touch of sadness here and there with a much larger dose of contentment and satisfaction.

Finally the arrangement also suggests the happy/sad duality - the hopeful and happy sounding strings mixed with Louie's "seen it all" vocal.

I think it's just perfect.....

I'm sure I could do a better job describing what I feel than this - will have to think about it some more though. Which I guess is the whole point.

Scott

One of the early songs that I remember is THE SINGING HILLS by Slim Whitman. Too early for most of you. Probably an attempt to write around another song from that Era, THE SINGING WATERFALL by Hank Williams. Don't know which came first.

Some other songs from way back is THE GREAT PRETENDER and SMOKE GETS IN YOUR EYES recorded by the Platters. PAPER MOON is another timeless Classic. Others such as THE WAYWARD WIND by Gogi Grant come to mind. Not to mention Dino and songs such as THATS AMORE.

I'm another Dylan fanatic. It's Alright Ma, I'm Only Bleeding is an incredible lyrical feat (like most of his work, I guess).

Technically, the rhyme scheme is really interesting:
A A A A A B
C C C C C B
D D D D D B
E E B

You get the idea - the way that the last rhyme of each verse matches the last rhyme of every other verse (and chorus) gives the song a kind of circular cohesion that allows the rambling, quick-fire words to come tumbling out without getting out of control. Amazing.

Also, the words themselves are just so brutally honest:

"That he not busy being born
Is busy dying."

"To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much is really sacred."

"For them that must obey authority
That they do not respect in any degree
Who despise their jobs, their destinies
Speak jealously of them that are free
Cultivate their flowers to be
Nothing more than something they invest in."

"While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in."

I have trouble finding that level of understanding in modern music - the brutally honest discussions of the world we're in and the meaning of freedom and the abuse of power. There's more here in 1 song than I could hope to ever deal with in 20.

This is an amazing thread too, by the way. It's a really awesome way to discover new music!

Nice one,

Si

Hmm, good question Rand. Initially I don't know?

The Bing songs seem dated and even a little bit corny compared with todays taste. It would still be interesting to analyze my own taste through them, though.

So you have given me an incitement to do a little harmonic and melodic analysis. I'll get back with that.

There have been some great contributions here...brought back a lot of memories....that is what great songs do....How many people have a "our song"..... something that is unique to them a first meeting, dance, kiss....is remembered with a song that was perhaps playing at the time.

One of my fav our songs is "Love Hurts" there have been many covers and versions of the song but the most emotional one must be the Nazareth version.... I had heard the fast version and not thought much about the lyrics just remembered the catchy tune....it is only when I heard the slow version and noticed the words.... very emotional meaningful TRUE.

Love hurts, love scars,
Love wounds, and marks,
Any heart, not tough,
Or strong, enough
To take a lot of pain,
Take a lot of pain
Love is like a cloud
Holds a lot of rain
Love hurts, ooh ooh love hurts

Im young, I know,
But even so
I know a thing, or two
I learned, from you
I really learned a lot,
Really learned a lot
Love is like a flame
It burns you when its hot
Love hurts, ooh ooh love hurts

Some fools think of happiness
Blissfulness, togetherness
Some fools fool themselves I guess
Theyre not foolin me

I know it isnt true,
I know it isnt true
Love is just a lie,
Made to make you blue
Love hurts, ooh,ooh love hurts
Ooh,ooh love hurts

[guitar solo]

I know it isnt true,
I know it isnt true
Love is just a lie,
Made to make you blue
Love hurts, ooh ooh love hurts
Ooh ooh love hurts
Ooh ooh...

Rand, you're right in everything you said about Karen Carpenter. I didn't appreciate the songs at the time, I was more into heavy rock and wrote those songs off as corny or bubblegumish. As I got older I discovered her voice. When I was a teenager my older sister had all of the Carpenters albums. I didn't realize at the time that one of my favorite singer/songwriters Leon Russell had written several Carpenters songs, "Song For You", "Superstar" etc.

We had a thread some time ago featuring Karen singing "Superstar" in a video that brought a lot of response to her unique vocal. That song is my favorite but I still like the Rita Coolidge version from Joe Cocker's "Mad Dogs And Englishmen" just as well. I wish she were still here. Ben

Hi Rand and fellow JPF'rs:

This really is a nice thread. Since I'm older than most of you by a factor of two or three, my influences (as far as music is concerned) are primarily from Hoagy Carmichael. If I could only take one song with me to a deserted island... "Stardust" would fill the bill. Obviously, there were at least a hundred more "old standards" that some would say are equal or better... it's all a matter of personal taste. My point is that I grew up in an era where sensationalism was not the purpose of the press and though we liked to talk the John Wayne talk, most of us were really softies at heart. (Rather be lovers than fighters... lol!)

Rand, I certainly appreciated your commentary about the Carpenters and their wonderful music... via Bacharach and his co-writers. "Close to You" really defines the musical "Renaissance"
that blossomed during that period of American Music History.

Thanks for bringing us this thread. Some very insightful comments have been posted.

Dave

http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/DaveRice

I really admire and love a lot of the previous songs mentioned,but my personal favourite,was the spoken intro by the Big "O"..of In Dreams.........
"A Candy Coloured Clown They Call The Sandman
Tiptoes To My Room, Every Night
Just To Sprinkle Stardust, And To Whisper
Go To Sleep,Everything, Is Allright."....

Then the pure magical vocal of Roy Orbison to bring to life, that wonderful refrain...Those opening four lines instantly connected with me,and i have been a Roy Orbison fan since the first time i heard it,as a boy of 12 yrs of age...
What a classic piece of writing!...nothwithstanding Roy's unique chord changes in a lot of his compositions,and his constant use of the "extra bar" in a lot of his songs...Wonderful!!
Very Good Topic......Terry...

Dave "Stardust" must be one of the most beatiful songs ever written. It was my mothers fav all time song. We played it at her funeral...brought many tears.

Although I love the H.C. original the Nat King Cole version must be one of the all time unforgetable classics.

Good call Dave.......

Bridge over troubled waters.

It is great to find out what people like. Very interesting and thoughful insights here.

Tom

I am story teller with my guitar...The key thing in your post Rand, (and let me again say that I have enjoyed your posts) is honesty...when the artist brings you a song that touches you in a very honest way it feels like the song goes directly into your heart ! Here's a few of mine I feel that way about

Honesty-Billy Joel
A Better Place to Be- Harry Chapin
All I Want- Joni Mitchell
Late for the Sky- Jackson Browne
If- David Gates and Bread

You can't help but be moved by each of these...Good topic

George Burns told Jack Lemmon that the key to acting was honesty. He said, "If you can fake that, you've got it made."

I have been pondering this thread for a while and didn't know what to say until I went to see Roger McGuinn on Friday night. Then I realized that when I was growing up I listened to surf bands, to folkies, to jazz, and early rock 'n roll, but when I first heard the Byrds, it was nirvana. Roger says he took folk songs and added a Beatle beat, but it was more than that. Think Mr. Tambourine Man or Turn, Turn, Turn and that Rickenbaker 12-string playing the opening riff, then the rest of the band coming in, and then the voices and harmonies of McGuinn, Crosby, Clark and Hillman.....wow.

Even today, when I hear those songs opening with the 12-string, I get chills. They had the lyrics (often Dylan's or their own), the melodies, the riffs, the harmonies, the rhythm. Roger gets the credit of being the inventor and the architect and the rest of them brought the voices and the songs. I would be hard pressed to pick one song because there were many that used a similar formula. It was not just the melody, the lyrics, the chord progression, it was the whole package - the sound!!!

By the way, Roger does a great one man show now playing the Ricky as well as acoustic guitars - Byrds, folk, blues, etc.

Thanks, Big Jim:

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I also prefer Nat Cole's version over the rest. My appreciation for Hoagy is limited to his songwriting... 'cause, like me, his singing left a little to be desired... yet he performed quite often... even in movies.

Stardust is probably his most memorable composition but he really was prolific.

Dave Rice

Rand, your post describes where I "live" musically, enraptured by structure, and the interplay of all the elements of a song.

I was born in '61, and my earliest musical memory is from when I was maybe four years old or so, and dazzled by the Beatles single "Eight Days a Week"/"I Don't Want to Spoil the Party". Both songs affected me equally, and I was old enough to play that 45 on that old suitcase record player, and flip it over, again and again.

Looking back, that 45 taught me everything I needed to know about structure, songcraft, performance, production choices. That chiming intro/outro on "Eight Days a Week", those spinetingling crisp harmonies in perfect counterpoint, the wry viewpoints expressed that made me want to know more about the singers.

But most of all, I "saw" the structure of those songs. It started with this part...then went to that...it changed there, wow, so neat...then a return to the other part...

That was the best lesson the Beatles taught me, to be aware of a song's skeleton, and to consider how to DO that. All through my childhood I listened to records like a songwriter, analyzing songs, keenly aware of the structure and the choices made...and I never realized that until I actually started writing them.

There are a lot of marvelous songs to look at, but those two are the ones the first grabbed me...and man, they never did let go.

My absolute favorite "musical moment" in a song is the bridge in the Police's "Every Breath You Take" ("...since you're gone I've been lost without a trace..."), which modulates up a minor third, but never makes it to the One chord, but goes back and forth between 4 and 5, IOW You're in C Major, then your bridge is Ab/Ab/Bb/Bb/Ab/Ab/Bb/Bb/ ...then back to "C"...

The song being about obsession, Sting does not lose his head in the bridge but "ups the stakes" singing in a slightly higher register and much more emotionally, replacing the "calm" of the verses and chorus with an obsessively focused, over-enunciated "plea", so you know he's serious, and it works magically.

Haha, I remember doing an improv comedy routine to "Close To You" back in college...I came out dressed in a straitjacket, wild-eyed and frantic, and as the piano played gentle accompaniment, I SCREAMED the song in a fit of hysteria...

"WHY DO STARS SUDDENLY APPEAR?????!!...." etc etc

But I agree about that song, just gorgeous.

Every Breath is a terrific song - one of those dectively simple ones.

Tom

Don't matter who sings "Wonderful World," it's an incredible song. I used Willie Nelson's version on a compilation album I produced in the early '90s. Inspired song, lasting message, makes everybody feel good.

Rand

Certainly "Stardust" is considered by many to be the greatest pop song every written. Wouldn't it be amazing to be responsible for a song that ever got mentioned in those terms.

Rand

Mark:

Your early observations about those Beatle songs show great awareness. One of the things that strikes me about almost all of those early Lennon and McCartney compositions are those bridges. They called 'em the "middle 8." Those guys were the masters at bridge writing - and "Eight Days a Week" is a prime example of their craft.

Rand

Oh, Mama, how I love a great bridge! And, that's another great one. The song itself is musically predictable, comfortable and familiar until that bridge modulation hits you. What a great change!

Rand

Mark:

I did a similar bit in high school performing "What Kind Of Fool Am I" by Anthony Newley and Leslie Briccuse. It wasn't supposed to be a comedy routine, but the kids in the crowd started laughing at my pompous sincerity, so I went along and camped it up as if I was in on the joke. Saved me from total humiliation - and nobody was any the wiser (at least I don't think anybody figured it out).

"Close to You" in manic mode - sounds hilarious.

Rand

Nice save!

Rand that is a great story.

Tom