JPF Home Page Forums General Messages Mentor Questions Forum U.S. Copyright in foreign countries?

First, my sincere thanks to all those that have offered responses to my other questions here in the past.

In my on-going efforts to get music placed into as many non-exclusive libraries as possible (save the Pump Audio type), I began to wonder about how much protection my copyrights provide in other countries. For example, a licensing library that I'm considering submitting music to states in the Licensing Agreement that Belgian law would determine the outcome of any disputes between me and the library. Unfortunately, I'm rather rusty when it comes to Belgian law.

Are there any countries that a U.S. Copyright holder should be leary of dealing with?

I always read the fine print of each agreement, but any advice is appreciated.

I received ASCAP's International Distribution in August. They have arrangements with 50 countries outside the USA. ASCAP sent me the list. It's probably somewhere on the ASCAP website.

Anyway, Belgium is on the list. Belgium's PRO society working with ASCAP to collect your royalties is SABAM.

That's all I can tell you about Belgium. Maybe you can find SABAM by googling.

Best, John

There is something named the Berne Agreement or something simular. It was signed by most of the countries and gives recepicial agreements on copyright in all countries that signed the Agreement.

Most likely a Song library knows about the Berne Agreement and does not license music in countries that didn't sign the agreement. The United Kingdom, France, Italy, and most countries signed the agreement so you probably don't have anything to worry about. For more info just Google it. I'm sure it is avaliable on line.

Steve,

Look up the Bern Convention. It was written in Bern, Switzerland in the late 1800's. You'll find which countries are signatories.

Libraries and PRO's may have agreements that exist apart from any international treaties or laws. Make sure you read and understand anything to which you agree.

Here, you are receiving information on international law from virtual strangers on the internet. Use this information with that in mind You may want to check with an attorney who specializes in international copyrights.

All the Best,
Mike

Thanks guys! This place really is a gold mine of valuable information...and support!

Someone cautioned that some countries take a large share of the profits from intellectual property, due to the type of government there, socialist, monarchical, dictatorships, narcocracies.

I have a friend who does nothing but overseas publishing. He recently had a number three hit in Greece. It was on an all female group over there. Very popular group, ringtones, etc. It took him about three years of tracking through the various entities to find out that you have to deal with the Government of Greece to get anything. And he never did. Sometimes they simply decide not to pay you. Greece is socialist.

Frankly, if you get significant airplay in other countries, you are doubtful to make enough money to justify going after anything. If you are not represented by a reputable publisher, your chances of getting anything are almost nil.

In the world of illegal downloading, having a piece of paper saying anything is protected is an almost archaic concept. There are even members of political parties now, such as in Denmark, who are expressly pushing for the elimination of all protection for creative works.

MAB

We Europeans mostly think Americans are crazy when you talk about 'socialism' in Eurpoe. So I have to counter some of those comments. 'Socialism' is a scary to Europeans as to Americans, but luckily it ain't so.

You Americans are fooled by the political terminology overseas, which is different. There are no socialist countries in Europe at all, Russia and some eastblock countries exepted.

What you call 'socialist' is in fact liberal democracies, and a far cry from socialist. If these politicians were in your two party system, they would be proper democrats. The 'socialist' part is that they vote for public healthcare programmes and unemployed insurance programmes. Even these things has absolutely nothing to do with 'socialism' in their current form, and they further more are under heavy pressure over here now. So we are actually moving towards what the US used to be, and you are moving in the opposite direction with Obama.

Most of Europe has been dominated by right wing politics (Republican) for more than a decade now. In fact, in Denmark the neo liberals have formed our government with the conservatives for almost a decade now.

It is true that a so called 'piracy' party are getting a minor share of public votes, but thats in Sweden, and they are mostly adolecent radicals and considered a couriosity.

Southern Europe, like Greece, are considered more loose with rules, though. Thats more a cultural thing, though, more than political. The story from Greece could never happen further north in Europe.

All of the large European Countries (France, UK, Germany, Benelux) and the Scandinavian PRO's are very good, and very protective of copyright law.

As a tv/film composer, you are actually better off having works performed overseas, as you get paid for everytime they show a tv show or a movie (performance royalties), unlike in the US.

Further more, EU law mostly overrules the laws of individual countries, so when you wonder about copyright rules (which is internationally agreed upon), you should examine EU law, not the particular laws in individual countries.

Hi all,

as a Frenchman - therefore European - I can say that what Magne says here is 100% true.
Right now, most European countries couldn't be much farther away from what the Americans call 'socialism'. What Obama tries to do in the U.S. - eg. State Healthcare System - lots of European countries did a long time ago. And what we're currently seeing is a progressive dismantlement of this system. Not because it has threatened our liberties. But because it's a very expensive system and we can't afford to keep it any more.
It's the same thing for most European songwriters. We used to be very much and well protected, and we have kept much of this system to this day. So don't fear to be ripped off in France or in Belgium, these are civilized countries, lol. But it's also true we are currently shown the Anglo-Saxon model as the perfect way to deal with the affairs now, in which it appears we'll be more and more left to our own devices, for good and bad - no one to tell us what to do, right, but no one to help us out of unexpected misery either. When I see what's currently happening to glynda - who's not an illegal, unemployed or delinquant migrant, but a pure hardworking Christian Texas woman - I ask myself some questions about the future. I won't talk American politics here, I think it'd be foolish and disrespectful, mostly because I'm not an American citizen. But I'd say this, just talking for me: I'd rather be provided a medical doctor I didn't choose than have no doctor at all because I can't afford one, even though I work 60 hours a week and have some education.

Going back to music: songwriters are well protected in Europe, at least as well as in the U.S. I have no doubt about that.

Take care,
Yann

PS: I wouldn't call anyone 'crazy', it's just that it's incredibly difficult to know what's 'really' going on in a country when you don't live there. First - obvious reason - because you don't have full access to the right information; and secondly because the media can be incredibly dishonest when they say they'll 'tell' you. I'm currently hearing things about America on French TV you wouldn't believe. How there is NOT ONE white American soldier in Afghanistan right now, just poor Blacks and Mexicans who accepted to go there because they were promised a Green Card after the War. Now, be honest and tell me, can I rightly perceive America from my French TV and newspapers?

Generally Speaking if you wish your material to be avaliable for use in foreign countries you should work with an American Publisher that is well seasoned in placing songs in those Foreign Markets. The U.S. Publisher will know all the proper proceedures and laws they have to comply with. And you only have to join an american PRO as they work with the Foreign Pro(s). There are some countries that still haven't signed the Berne Agreement and therefore U.S. Publishers don't do agreements in those countries. I don't know but Greece may be one of them.