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Lot Long
by Gary E. Andrews - 11/10/26 11:20 AM
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Here's an interesting look at the Nashville write-for-hire phenomena from the perspective of Nashville insider and occasional contributor to this forum, Rand Bishop. Selling the dream
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the article by Rand Bishop is excellant....the dreamers who think you can just ATM your way to hit songs almost deserve to be fleeced like the mindless sheep they are....but everything is indeed for sale in Nashville-including things that dont really exist.....thanks for posting this Dan
Tom
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Just adds more weight to the "who you know not what you know" syndrome. It seems that most money made in Nashville nowadays is by folks who do NOT write songs.....but are more inventive with their scams ripping off the wannabes who do write. I cannot wait to see what ideas they come up with next.
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I went to the Songwriter's Institutes's write up page and I was reading along -- and it all seemed quite reasonable. They weren't talking "write a hit", they were talking about writing with and getting mentoring from a hit writer. Then I got to the price -- $2,500 for one day!!!! Oh well, you could get 10+ days with Marc-Alan Barnette (MAB) for the same price. ... and probably write a few songs with MAB, get performance tips, co-write with and meet up and coming artists, perform at a writer's night and whole, whole bunch more. I guess there are those that complain that MAB is charging you to write with him -- but what could be a better way to learn how to write songs than actually write them! I can personally vouch for MAB and would gladly recommend his services to any aspiring songwriter. Kevin
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Well, I have heard there is money in music. But aren't all those Hit Songwriter's dead?
Ray E. Strode
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Well, I guess they're hit songwriters no longer, just the remains of has-beens or barely-beens.
I don't know whom I pity the most, the gullable and untalented clients who are willing to part with $2500 or the broke ex-hit songwriters scrounging the depths of dispair.
Perhaps each deserves the other ?
cheers, niteshift
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I don’t think there is anything wrong or disingenuous about this business idea. Artists from all walks of life find ways to supplement their income. As long as the ‘non hit-writer’ views this as a one-to-one workshop rather than a short cut to hit song success and they are happy with the cost I don’t see too much of a problem. It’s all about expectations. There was a line in the advertising that made me smile though, it said: These kinds of opportunities are priceless to writers/artists wishing to invest in their careers Priceless? - Apparently not 
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if working with a hit writer made you a hit writer then obviously Yoko Ono and Linda McCartney would have won multiple Grammy awards.
Tom
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I don't see a thing wrong with the basic model. The best way to learn is by doing and the best person to do that with is someone who is successful. It's a smart thing to do.
If there are any problems, they would probably be due to misleading expectations. If the expectations are anything beyond that you are simply paying for an educational experience, that would be problematic.
Scott
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Hey Scott,
Oh man, are you being diplomatic or what ?
I've always found in education as a whole, that the BEST always give their knowledge for free. I'm not talking about paid education here but mentorship and guidance.
I know what I know, because of those that came before me, saw that I had an interest in a topic, and freely gave their time and interest.
It's all well and good to do a paid course ( eg. in spoon and egg racing ) but quite different to actually converse and be involved with a pro egg and spoon racer who polishes his spoons and selects the best eggs which won't fall off the spoon.
That's called life experience, and doesn't come at a cost of $2500 a day ! Heck, even pro studio time doesn't cost that much.
And besides that, there's no bragging rights when you have to pay for it.
In other words, "Did you bed the girl that you met tonight or did you go down the local brothel ?"
No contest.
cheers, niteshift
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Though I believe in a free market, this is borderline scamming (though legal scamming). I wonder how many songwriters expect more than a collaborating experience? How many naive whippersnappers will think the collaborated song stands a chance of becoming a hit because of the pro's contacts? How many think they will become famous through association? I'd have a bit more respect if they advertised " learn songwriting from a pro" (without stooping to name-dropping) Anyway, on the dirty pool meter (1 being the lowest life-form), I rate it a 4. Still... the free market has to take the good with the bad. I don't want any government agency regulating this kind of thing. The best antitoxin for this disease is education from word-of-mouth to forums like this one. I wonder how much Hans Zimmer would charge me for a collaboration?  John 
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The interesting thing I found was that if you are located a distance away, you can do the one to one via skype.
Could you really call that one to one, ie face to face.
ummmm
God Bless Roy Cooper
'You Have To Kiss A Lot Of Frogs To Find A Prince'
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There are 3 things you need to remember. Education, Commerce and ... err .... the other one!
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Do you have to have "lessons" to be a good songwriter?...In my experience some of the best songwriters are completely self taught......some of the best have only had a basic scholastic education and are self taught musicians.....Having heard a lot of songs from folks who have attended songwriting lessons, seminars and workshops and various other forms of mentoring I do not think they have learned that much or indeed have been taught that much....they just seem to copy the style of the mentor, rehash what has been done before or rip off the current fads and fashions. What counts is the motives for a famous successful writer offering to cowrite with a newbie wannabe...and the wannabes motive for paying for a cowrite....usually if a payment is involved it sounds like scamming delusional people to me. It is sad that you have to have contacts before even having the chance to submit material or be taken seriously....and that is the main reason we have so many scammers.....yet another example of why a fool and his money are soon parted.
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I don't think the hitwriters can be blamed, like this. In all businesses Brand names are exploited. So why not offer yourself as a consultant, when you have proven yourself in the music business? Who would else have the expertise?
On the other hand, these fees are steep, and these people can't offer any more opportunities to get the "cut", than anyone else. So, I would assume very few can actually use this service strategically.
I'd say it's expensive coaching, but it can be worth it if their coaching skills are as great as their songwriting skills (which I highly doubt they are).
I would need real documentation that these people are equally great to make sure you actually LEARN something from their involvement, so they can't just get away with anything. The problem with this is acountability! I pay for stuff, but only when I know what I'm going to get.
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Sleaze. Co-writing by nature has long been a shared experience done by people with mutual respect and interest and the same amount of skin in the game. The rest is sleaze and scams and putrescence.
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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I just added my thoughts to his post. Thanks for sharing it Dan.
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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You hit the nail on the head Brian.....cowrites can produce some great songs and some great partnerships and team efforts....the key words are mutual respect and same amount of skin in the game....yes the prospect of paying top dollar to have your name alongside a proven songwriter sounds like sleaze to me....from both sides......who could hold their head up and say I cowrote a song with so and so......of course I paid him for the privilege....and what great songwriter could take any satisfaction from becoming a songwriting prostitute.
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Hey Scott,
Oh man, are you being diplomatic or what ?
I've always found in education as a whole, that the BEST always give their knowledge for free. I'm not talking about paid education here but mentorship and guidance.
Hey Nite: I should have been clearer - I wasn't commenting on the business model. I was commenting on the educational model. That's my first instinct, given that I am an educator. If I wanted to learn songwriting, where would I be better served - sitting in a crowd watching a power point presentation and/or listening to a panel discussion? Or by actually writing a song with an expert? Based on what I know about learning, the second one wins hands down. That's all I meant. As far as the business model? I'm no expert but I DO have some experience. My wife and I once paid one of the most accomplished climbers in the country a few hundred bucks to guide us for a day. It was well worth it. You can learn from books and watching others but there is no substitute for having an expert watch you and say, "No, this is what you are doing wrong". I've done the same with a famous photographer with the same result. Both these guys were at the same level in their profession as Charles Barkley was in basketball. Neither was rich (in fact, they were barely making ends meet) and they didn't charge an arm and a leg either. I felt I got the better of the deal in both cases. Would I pay $2500 to write a song with a hitwriter. No. But if that is what the market will bear, I don't begrudge them. It's only if they market the experience as anything other than an educational personal workshop that I would have a problem.Having said that, and having been both an apprentice and a mentor, I also have to admit the value and appeal of giving it away for free. The two models are not mutually exclusive though - in fact, I think most professionals with specialized knowledge do both. When to do one and when to do the other? How do balance the free exchange of information with making a living? That's a personal choice - and one that can be agonized over.  Scott
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Scott you make some good points...... however there is a fine distinction between a pro offering help and advice whether paid or unpaid and the same pro charging for a cowrite. As Brian said so powerfully nothing wrong with a cowrite as long as there is mutual respect and the same skin in the game....IMO charging for a cowrite is just prostitution in its worst form....and there is no reason to do so except to make a financial killing. Would I pay for a cowrite?......never would I charge for a cowrite?....never
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I agree with you on this one Big Jim. I charge fees to consult, advise and assist songwriters and artists with their careers, song critiques, my seminars and workshops etc, but I would never charge to co-write (even if I were a hit songwriter). I always filter co-writing requests, and I won't write with anyone and everyone (I don't have time), but I've never charged those I choose to co-write with and I never will. Lisa Butler www.lisabutlermusic.com
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I hope I never get so pompous as to think I can't learn something new. That said, the mere thought of paying to write with someone turns me off completely. Hit song writers have put in the time in building relationships that have brought them the success they've achieved. Just because I , or you, don't have a hit yet doesn't make us that different. I confidently consider myself a peer of all writers, with them having just as much of a chance at gaining from my input in a co-write as I do from their input, it's the relationships that they have that tilt the scales in their favor.Paying for the priviledge to leverage from their relationships is an individual decision that kinda seems like Vegas to me, alot more losers than there are winners. Being naive is part of life, parting with your money to pursue a dream in this way seems naive to me. But it's that person's money. I have met a lot of people here on JPF whom I have co-written with,from all over the U.S. and the world, some I continue to write with even now. I have met one on here who wanted me to pay to write with them. I didn't write that next song with his help, I wonder if it would have been a hit!!?
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Hi Big Jim,
You said: It is sad that you have to have contacts before even having the chance to submit material or be taken seriously....
How true that is. Nowadays it seems there are no outside songs considered--or very few. Maybe that explains why the quality of many songs on the radio ain't like it used to be.,lol. There's tons of songs out there that are simply awesome--that will never ever get heard and played on the radio. every artist either attempts to write their own material or hires people specifically to do that. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that--just that it would be nice if they would consider outside talent. Take that song by Martina Mcbride----her new one about cancer that she sung at the CMA's. If I wrote that song word for word and did the melody exactly as it is--do you think it ever would have made it past a publishers desk? We all know the answer to that,lol. Tis not a level playing field for sure.
While we're talking about charging for services--does anyone se a problem with hit song writers charging for writing critique"s/ I basically don't as long as they are reasonable. I feel like that's the same thing as paying for a consultation on something. Just curious what others think, Take care, Roger
Roger Sosnowski The happiest people in life are those involved in music
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Duplicate post - hate when that happens 
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Scott you make some good points...... however there is a fine distinction between a pro offering help and advice whether paid or unpaid and the same pro charging for a cowrite. Yeah Jim, that's true, I suppose. It's probably because we as songwriters look at our songs as products of our imagination and skills. I'm thinking differently here - of the act of writing the song as an educational experience. In any case though, a song IS the likely outcome of this experience. The odds of anything happening with one of these songs is probably pretty slim but it could happen - in which case it should be spelled out in advance who gets songwriting credit. Ethically, I think the hit-writer should say, "You just paid me $2500 for this session. This is work for hire so I have no piece of the song, if you want to do anything with it." If the hit-writer realizes during the session that this is going to be a really GOOD song, he should say, "I'd be willing to return your money if you'd agree that this is a co-write". However, taking money for the co-writing session and then insisting on an equal cut of the writing would have some ethical problems, imo. I suppose a deal could be struck where, if the song goes anywhere, $2500 comes off the top for the customer before the writers royalties are split. Even that seems a little sleazy to me - though it might appeal to some customers..... Scott
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Roger, I don't know why anyone would pay for a song critique, from a hit writer or anyone else. I don't see any value in it. But that's just me. I don't see anything wrong with it. I look at it the same way I look at buying lottery tickets. People should be able to spend their money any way they want.
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Hi Dan,
Maybe it's cause I'm basically a newer writer--but I've had several critique's that really did point out weak areas that I wasn't thinking about. Or areas that maybe weren't commercial enough as written and for 46 I didn't think it was going to break the bank,lol. i guess it's a personal thing and an experience thing as well. I'm sure when a writer consistently gets his or her writing to a certain level--than I would agree it's probably pointless. i still got a ways to go,lol. To each their own as they say. Take care, Roger
Roger Sosnowski The happiest people in life are those involved in music
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Any form of critique is a valuable tool.....I have reservations about paid critiques......I ask myself the motives and qualifications of the critiquers and the quality and honesty of the critique can sometimes be suspect.....but that aside if people benefit from them ...great. It depends on the type of song and the resons for writing it..... for example a song aimed at the commercial market has to slot into the requirements therefore a critique from a succesful commercial writer can be a good thing. On the flip side the same person critiquing a song written for fun and for non commercial purposes would probably give a critique that was irrelevant for that type of song.
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Roger,
I don't think your frustration against people having connections or a network is directed at the right place. If you apply for a job, they ask for references, your work history in that field and test your knowledge via questioning before considering bringing you on to work, the music industry is no different. Someone who has no proven experience, no one that can vouch for their talent or what it is like working with you etc. shouldn't expect to start at the CEO level. Same in the music industry. Playing your song is not enough by itself as there are just too many people with too many songs to simply choose that way. I know well over 5000 songwriters with varying levels of demonstrated success or who I have a direct personal history with. For me to forgo all of them to work with someone new/else, there needs to be a reason beyond a song or two and frankly, who even has time to usually to randomly meet with and listen from scratch to someone with no story to tell, demonstrated experiences or background info to help you decide.
It's a buyers market. 1000's of great songs for every opportunity, 100's of great people already at hand for each opening.
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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Nashville has turned into a place where, instead of making money with songwriters, the new business model seems to be be making money off of songwriters. Most of (if not all of) the "hit writers" who are selling their services aren't getting hits in today's market, and in fact, are having the same trouble getting through doors in town as everybody else. One of the best known scams in Nashville is by somebody who was involved year ago in a four-way co-write (with at least one great writer, who BTW can't make any headway in today's market in spite of several #1s) that became a hit. Nowadays, this person charges people money to watch other people pitch songs to publishers. That's just wrong. I told them that I had serious issues with the concept of paying for access to people in the industry to listen to my songs. I was told to quit my effing whining, and that truly great writers will find somebody to put up the money for them to attend the "workshops". I still get invitations to attend on a regular basis.
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Brian in the jobs market folk advertise when they have vacancies usually they are open to all...... anybody can apply.... sometimes for applicants there is a minimum standard to meet...... but that does not happen as you know in the music biz......and in all fairness you cannot put your hand on your heart and say that the best suited and most qualified get the best gigs.....I think it only right that we question how the marketplace operates and voice our opinions.....mutual backscratching and keep it in the family is rife in the industry.....AND minimum qualifications and standards are often forgotten.....who you know counts more often than what you know. Now I am not naive to say that it does not happen in other businesses but heck the music biz is a law unto itself and pretty much a closed shop to outsiders....so much talent is wasted because it is never given the chance.....meanwhile we get the same rehashed crap because blinkered vision third raters call the shots.
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Great article, Rand! You still here?  One of the best points, to me, is that hit songwriters seldom write hits. It's true. If I had an opportunity to cowrite with Paul McCartney, I most certainly would...but I would also keep in mind that Paul, one of the greatest songwriters in history, hasn't had a hit for quite awhile. So keep that in mind next time you shell out a couple grand to write with some hit writer you've never heard of...
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There is too much supply and not enough demand. I see ads all the time for people looking for something specific, no fees or strings attached (beyond usually the publishing share which is reasonable if they are supplying a specific use to anyone chosen). But for each opportunity I see there are 10's of thousands of potential artists/writers to fill it.
That said, it's like any job market, if company X isn't in need of workers, they aren't going to give you an interview. They might accept an application (just like taking a demo) and like most of those cases, they get a glance at best on their way into the trash can. It's a "we'll contact you if we're interested" at best and that rarely happens. It's very similar to the job market now in that there's a lot of people looking for the good jobs and not many to go around. But in the case of music, it's 1000's of times less likely they'll need something from you. Most decision makers already have a large backlog of A+ material they haven't found a use for but come from people they personally have motivation to help. The bar is often far higher than people really understand. I know from our own awards process that truly outstanding music simply gets lost in the vast ocean of available music. We have some large genres where we could go 200-500 songs deep for nominations and not drop in quality yet we only have 20 slots. Remember we had 560K songs and in the end only 80 of them one an award. Do the math on that. And that only accounts for music from our 50K members. There may be 1 million people pursuing some level of opportunities for their music in the western countries alone.
If you don't like the marketplace and how they operate/make decisions, what you do is you FIX it by going into the business you're unhappy with yourself, doing it better and if your "theory" is right, making a fortune. But the truth is most of the time, their system IS right and your theory is wrong. Why is it THEIR job to do anything FOR you? That of course is the mindset of socialism or communism where everyone is treated the same, (sort of like the insipid practice in much of the USA to give out the same trophy to everyone who plays, rather than just to the champions in kids sports) but of course when it is put into practice, everyone does get treated mostly the same, BADLY. The "Free" market means if you have a better idea, stop whining and do it better. That's what I did with JPF. EXACTLY in fact. OF course to fix what I thought was broken about organizations, I had to give up a lot, like my own music pursuits. I have had little regret, though now and then I will pull out an old song and think.. wow.. with all I know and all my contacts, wouldn't it be nice to make some music again? Not to make money but more for the fun and passion of getting thoughts and emotions out in musical form. That's what it should be about anyway. Once you go past that and expect business (not art, BUSINESS) to do it YOUR way disappoint is usually going to follow.
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney Founder Just Plain Folks jpfolkspro@gmail.com Skype: Brian Austin Whitney Facebook: www.facebook.com/justplainfolks"Don't sit around and wait for success to come to you... it doesn't know the way." -Brian Austin Whitney "It's easier to be the bigger man when you actually are..." -Brian Austin Whitney "Sometimes all you have to do to inspire humans to greatness is to give them a reason and opportunity to do something great." -Brian Austin Whitney
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Yep, that's what it's all about Brian, "supply and demand". I've seen a huge change in the music library business the last couple years. Instead of libraries having 10,000 tracks, they now number in hundreds of thousands. And hundreds of libraries instead of dozens. Unless you have some kind of relationship with the library owners it's easy to get lost in the shuffle. That being said... the good product is buried within the inferior product. Becomes frustrating for clients searching for that special track. Fortunately there are still a few libraries from the old model. One of my libraries only have 5,000 tracks. And I'm not talkin'...  Best course of action is to specialize. Find a product with less competition. Best, John 
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Joined: Dec 2008
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I think the problem is that nobody is selling records, so the money that use to come in from sales need to be earned elsewhere.
This is cool as an entertainment offer, where the songwriter is turned into a consumer. Most are, after all, I think.
If you think you're going to earn serious money off of songwriting, you have to be able to perform and produce everything yourself.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,997
Top 20 Poster
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Top 20 Poster
Joined: Apr 2005
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Great points everyone!
I could go on & on about this subject but can't lol so I want to keep a few points in mind overall.
1- Just like Hilltop Rec sending you deals in the mail, 99% of the time ANYONE looking for you personally can't really help you the way you dream they can. If a former HIT writer is looking for you, why wasn't he or she BEFORE? Because they did not NEED the money or you then. He does not have the "IN" he once had. Why not just go to friends you know who had hits as well and collaborate for a future hit opportunity??? To be a PRO with hits didn't you have to be awesome at networking?
Simple - Those people, those writers won't pay you? Ah!
2- For something like this to work a tremendous amount of honesty must be present. Good luck with that! What REAL proof are you going to get as writer that the material was actually heard and responded to by the industry?
The writer can feed you anything to keep you feeling like "Well at least they tried, and at least I tried" No, no no, I have quite a few rejection letters here from Clive some even written practically on a napkin and signed. I know that stuff was in there and heard!
3- I have ZERO problem with upfront honesty.... Forget the co-write lets get together crap or the $2,500.. I"ll believe and want to hear this!
"Hi I'm so & so and I wrote these HIT songs back in the day or whenever. You can send me your BEST song at NO COST! and If I love it then I'll want to shop it to whoever I can, whatever contacts I have from my experiences. And in return I WANT ____% of the publishing. Or Co-writing credit whether I actually make some changes to the song or not!
See with my name on there we stand a WAY better chance then yours would alone. Besides if the song does catch on or do well others in the industry will look into it and recognize my name. That will give us a huge BOOST in someone else contacting me.
It takes a MASSIVE amount of time to listen to songs, so I'll need a $5 submission fee per song to be able to go through them ya know like a Taxi fee for submission. If your serious about your music than that kind of investment is common to you and not a problem. Honestly you the new writer in the game are probably hungry and desperate. You should be if your really serious and really trying. And I too am hungry again and desperate. I need a spark!
Well there it is......
MIke
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,481 Likes: 1
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Top 200 Poster
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,481 Likes: 1 |
Hi Brian,
well you make some excellent points of course as does Big Jim and many others. It probably is more of a supply and demand issue than real talent,lol. To your point if you have 10,000 songs and 10 people(exaggerating of course) to listen to them--stands to reason they're not all goin got get heard, and the songs by someone who has a name will be heard first. It is truly frustrating though when you hear a really fantastic song that you know will never be on the radio and then you hear a run of the mill song on the radio. such is the biz. I wonder how much pirating killed this industry and the 99 cent songs. That's why I ain't quittin my daytime job anytime soon. I get enough of a rush just from someone saying hey that's a cool song or when a musician looks at my lyrics and wants to put music to it. If we can touch someone's heart or make them laugh then for most of us that's a job well done. Always look forward to the great and varied opinions from folks with a ton more experience than me. Take care, Roger
Roger Sosnowski The happiest people in life are those involved in music
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 906
Top 500 Poster
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Top 500 Poster
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 906 |
Well, it could just be me.... but I don't pay anyone to judge my songs or films or anything....there seems to be enough free and mostly unsolicited "constructive criticisms" to go around with all of my work....LOL.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,911 Likes: 1
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Top 30 Poster
Joined: May 2006
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I am wondering how this differs in principle from an artist paying a well-known artist to be a guest on his CD?
"Joe Schmuck with special guest Eric Clapton"
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,448
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this article's related to this blog Newcomer musicians open their wallets to avoid paying dues Newcomers pay for expertise and connections Songwriting consultant Lorna Flowers throws out ideas during a co-writing session with songwriter Jason Duke. / John Partipilo / The Tennessean Written by Anita Wadhwani | The Tennessean Lorna Flowers started consulting with other artists in March after a publishing deal ended. / John Partipilo / The Tennessean Songwriting consulting
Types of services offered:
Demo recordings
Publisher meetings
Voice coaching
Co-writing
Song critiques
Songwriter night scheduling
Industry networking events
Career coaching
Buyer beware Tips to avoid scams:
Ask for references and check them.
Ask for specific examples of successful songs that the services have led to.
Check for official complaints on file with the Better Business Bureau.
Ask staff at reputable local organizations such as NSAI, the Musicians Union and performing rights organizations for help.
Source: NSAI, BMI
Musician and Detroit native John Maison is willing to pay his dues to make it in the music business — but he’s also willing to pay in cash.
So the 20-something former commercial loan officer decided to hire Nashville songwriting consultant Marc-Alan Barnette to help him speed along the traditional years-long, dues-paying, school-of-hard-knocks route to Nashville songwriter success.
For a fee, Barnette agreed to impart to Maison some of the music industry wisdom he had learned from nearly a quarter-century as a songwriter, including introducing Maison to the right publishers, booking him in the best songwriter showcase events and serving as a co-writer on some of Maison’s original songs.
“Nashville is a 10-year town,” Maison said. “That’s how long it takes to establish all the relationships and filter through all the garbage of empty promises. But the idea is if you hire someone like Marc you can get your chops down and pay your dues so much faster.”
Barnette is among a growing number of “songwriter service” providers who are making a living by offering aspiring songwriters and singers entrée into the world of Nashville music.
The practice is controversial because it upends the mutual self-help culture that singers and songwriters say has long defined the local music scene — where musicians and writers have moved to town, made friends and been able to navigate the often-complicated music business with informal advice freely traded among fellow artists.
The practice also has drawn outright scam artists, who promise wildly extravagant results — fame, record deals, hit songs — they can’t deliver in return for hefty fees, industry observers say.
But Barnette, who in the past has opened for Charlie Daniels, Garth Brooks and Patty Loveless, is among the consultants who staff at institutions like the Nashville Songwriters Association International recommend.
The music business' shifting landscape Two seismic shifts in the music industry in the past decade — one cultural, one economic — have driven the phenomenon of songwriting consultant services, said Bart Herbison, NSAI’s executive director.
The first is the economics of the music business. Longtime songwriters are turning to consulting to make a living because their own options for making money have narrowed. Publishers are retaining fewer professional songwriters on staff as well.
What used to be a comfortable middle-class living, even for songwriters without huge hits, has all but evaporated, leading songwriters like Barnette into more entrepreneurial roles.
The second shift is the “American Idol phenomena,” Herbison said. “Everyone wants to be a star overnight. It’s just that moment in our culture. You’ve got the demand for that kind of help.”
Barnette said he also sees a third phenomenon at work: The songwriting community in the digital age is a lot more complicated than it used to be. While there are fewer opportunities to becoming successful, there are many more ways to access them than in the past. He sees his role as a “personal trainer for songwriters and artists.”
Yes, he is charging for a service that teaches people what they can learn on their own, “but you can send someone to downtown New York City and have them figure out how to drive around without a map,” he said. “I provide the map.”
The songwriting scene Nashville’s songwriting scene includes longstanding institutions that have staff designated specifically to help newcomers. Performing rights organizations such as BMI, ASCAP and SESAC, which collect royalties for songwriters, offer walk-in, free appointments for aspiring songwriters to ask questions or play their music and get constructive feedback.
The Nashville Songwriters Association International offers seminars and workshops — some free and some paid — that attract songwriters from around the world.
It hosts events such as “Pitch to Publishers” nights that give aspiring singer-songwriters an audience with song publishers; or there’s SongPosium, which provides an intense three-day campus-style education in all things one needs to know about the music industry.
Joining the organization for a $150 annual fee gives songwriters access to a host of other events as well as access to songwriting rooms and the comfortable, clubby headquarters.
Increasingly, however, NSAI has had to adapt to different demands by aspiring songwriters looking for quicker payoffs, Herbison said.
The association used to provide five song camps a year that lasted five days. Now they have two, but have added a series of short hourlong seminars.
It’s a sign of the times for songwriters who, because of their desire for quick success or because they can’t financially afford to invest the time, want quicker payoffs for their time, Herbison said.
Lorna Flowers became a songwriting consultant in March after a publishing deal ended.
The longtime pop and country songwriter, who moved to Nashville from Great Britain in 2004, has had three No. 1 hits on the European charts and, in the beginning, was making a comfortable living as a songwriter. Now, she offers consulting services to out-of-towners, many from overseas, as well as booking songwriter nights at two clubs and operating a production company.
“You have to have six jobs to make a living in Nashville at the minute,” Flowers said.
Flowers commuted from England for many years and said she learned the hard way how difficult it was for out-of-towners to navigate the Nashville music landscape. She’d arrive in Nashville, wait around for callbacks and then have to leave before she could accomplish anything.
“I know what it’s like to sit in a Nashville hotel room and try and figure all this out,” Flowers said. “This town runs on rescheduling. It’s hard not to take it personally, and it’s almost impossible to figure things out without someone to give you a hand.”
Flowers’ services range from performance voice coaching to arranging for meetings with publishers, or trips to industry networking events.
Flowers also offers to co-write with her clients or set them up with other co-writers for a fee that ranges between $100 to $500 per session.
Charging for co-writing — something Flowers calls “coach writing” — is among the most controversial practices among music consultants. Songwriters who write together have a longstanding tradition of agreeing to split future royalties, with money only changing hands if the song earns any.
“It is controversial, and I understand that,” Flowers said. “But the truth is that I can help people do their best and I can find other songwriters who will improve their chances of writing a quality song.”
Music industry insiders say the other upside to legitimate consultants is their ability to steer aspiring songwriters and artists away from scams.
Ripoff stories in the Nashville music business are legion, with newcomers paying thousands of dollars for demos that should cost hundreds, high-priced headshots, and CD replication services that return low-quality cuts.
“You see Harvard graduates come to town who lose any business sense,” Barnette said.
Legitimate songwriting consultants, who themselves have learned the hard way who to avoid working with, can steer clients away from bad actors to legitimate service providers.
When does it pay off? Maison, the Detroit songwriter, said that hiring Barnette as a consultant seems to be paying off.
In the three years since he began working with Barnette, Maison has been able to quit his day job and make a living off music. He was just picked up on an independent label, Big High Five Records. And he plans to keep using Barnette, despite some initial skepticism.
“When I first heard about people charging for this, to be honest I was like, ‘What a joke. That’s a scam. No way,’ ” he said.
“But the music business is like anything else. You get what you pay for.” (from: Tennessean Article
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Joined: Feb 2001
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just some rambling comments, Not sure if a paid cowrite is Music Row’s newest cash cow. What's worse? paying a hit writer to cowrite or gherming? Where do you draw the line between teaching, coaching, critiquing, demoing, custom songs, & cowriting? Many established writers cowrite with pretty and handsome young fledglings who might have a shot at an artist deal because you never know gonna do what I'm not sure where I stand on what two consenting adults do behind closed doors. As long as no one gets hurt, lied to or taken advantage of. Is there "an implicit promise that if a dilettante writer cowrites with a “hit writer” she will immediately be welcomed into the exclusive hit-maker club just by having his or her name juxtaposed next to someone who has penned a chart topper or two." Might depend upon which hit writer. It is to a writers strategic advantage to “write up”. Talent and earning your way is one way to accomplish it. "When an up-and-comer shows up for a writing appointment with an established pro, she’d better arrive with some fresh ideas and the capability to contribute her own share." Very True “I’ll give pretty much anyone a chance. But, if he arrives without a pencil, a piece of paper, a guitar, or an idea, I probably won’t book another appointment.” great quoteHiring a pro might look at what the collaborator brings to the table through different eyes. Knowing he’ll be walking away with wad of cash regardless of what they write. ~~~> doesn't everyone try to write the best song they can? "Ultimately, what really rankles me is the mere suggestion that every song co-written with a “hit writer” is destined for chart success."That's a poor assumption. Some businesses might mislead folks with that notion. Hit writers have batting averages # of songs written vs cuts vs singles vs hits. If a you write a song with a hit writer you might stand a better chance of something positive happen. You might write a better song faster You might learning something. Yu might be baffled and ask what just happened? If I purchased a co-write with one of these rent-a-pros, what motivation would he or she have to even pitch our song? ~~~> they might if it was a really great song Would it be a solid, strategic move for the pro to stick his neck out for a co-writer without any track record at all? ~ ~ ~> what matters more, the song or the pedigree of its writers? “Our last three retreats have brought about very successful results for our attendees: several of the songs co-written at these retreats have been demoed and are being pitched to major recording artists. One of the songs co-written at our Santa Fe retreat is on ‘hold’ for 2011 American Idol runner-up, Lauren Alaina, for her debut album!” ~~~~> what are they selling? they are baiting people to sign up for their events If a newby writer came up to you and said "I bet you $??? that you won't write a song with me?" Meaning if you did write a song with her you won the bet. At what dollar amount would you say, OK? Who knows where a hit is gonna come from? Sometimes life is messy I understand the desperation and eagerness of new writers who want validation and success. I understand the frustration of established writers who've seen the world as they know it shrink and shift around them. Alyssa Moreno got a Rascal Flatts cut and single from a Jeffrey Steele cowrite she won through Durango Songwriters Expo. She's a wonderful deserving singer songwriter who's had some of her other songs placed on TV series. I hope those screening songs for artists will pay more attention to the song and not as much to it's pedigree or story of creation. Sometimes great songs happen when writers write down and accept an appointment they're tempted to cancel. When Karen Taylor Good met with Burton Collins, she wasn't super thrilled but she showed up. In the appointment he told her the story of "How Can I Help you Say Goodbye." "How Can I help you Say Goodbye" Story behind Bless the Broken Road Who knows where great songs come from? I just hope they keep coming I love it when the song earns it's place in history.
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Texas Grammy Gov 06-08 grammy.com/Texas
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"Do not endeavor to be the smartest kid in a dumb class. Instead, you are better off being the dumbest kid in the smartest class, where you will be challenged and you will learn. If you aren't growing, you are dying." -Brian Austin Whitney
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