JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Traditional Christianity vs. Modern Christianity

There's no answers for that. Sorry for your pain. But why are people born blind, or deaf, or retarded or ....rock musicians... hope that helps just a bit.

Why are there millions of people living and dead starving in Africa. Why were people ravaged by katrina and tsunamis and earthquakes. Everybody suffers. some more than others, or so it seems.

Apparently, it's not a results based belief. God and "Help me" are not words that go together. Whether we believe or not, we still have to wake up in the morning, we still have to dodge bad drivers and bad roads.

it;s not some fairy tale where if we read the bible and go to church we will be protected. And people are quick to hand out thanks to God when things are going great, but you rarely hear them blame god when something goes wrong.

Emu Philips once said "When I was young I asked God to give me a bicycle, but I reaized God doesnt work that way, so I stole one, and then asked for forgiveness.

In a way that explains things. It's a spir0tual existence, not a physical one. belief in God is not going to make it not hurt when you slip on ice and land on your hip. But it may help deal with the fear of falling again.

Least you are still here and contributing.

No evidence that new species have evolved from other species? Newsflash: They still are! New species continue to arise all the time.

What are the specifics? What new species from what other species? If that was true where are all the news stories on them? Rest assured the media would sound the trumpet if that evidence was occuring. It's true that new species have been discovered that we didn't know existed but "arising all the time?" Name some that have been observed in the process of evolving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjcFSy1KCTI

Observed in the process of evolving? Do you understand that speciation takes many, many generations? Do you know what a species is?

I think all the debate about evolution is silly. A failed species or a changed species doesnt mean God didnt set the ball in motion.

Maybe God created nature and nature took the reigns. Or maybe Nature is God, or maybe everything that exists is a part of one force.

People will aregu for most of their lives over a species, it's pretty silly really.

Either it happend as a fluke or had devine intervention, talking about details rarely solves the important questions.

Kurt:

You old troublemaker you... now that you've managed to stir up the believers and the non-believers... would you be so kind as to define or desribe traditional Christians... and then do the same for modern Christians. Only one or two have attempted to resolve this quandary for you. I don't know the difference unless you are talking about the early Christians who met in the Catacombs and other hiding places during the Roman Era.

Maybe the modern Christians belong to the Cowboy Churches we see springing up all the way from Nashville to Ft. Worth... but I don't think that is what you were getting at? (No offense intended.)

One thing for certain, we know JPF is inhabited by Heathens, Agnostics, Pagans, Athiests, Christians, Jews, and even one Methabapterian. What do we have in common? Music! Thank goodness we live in a country and at least part of our world, where one can profess whatever belief or non-belief one so desires.

What could be better?

I never heard the term Methabapterian before. Personally, I'm a Three Seed In the Spirit Predestinarian Baptist. Foot washing is observed and the ministers draw no pay. I wash my feet and draw no pay.

I wondered if anyone would "bite" on the name of the unusual sect of which I am a part. Methabapterians believe it is good for young men to attend the Methodist Youth Fellowship so they may observe the feminine beauties there... and then attend the Baptist Church service to observe the feminine beauties there... and then attend the Presbyterian evening fellowship... (you guessed it) to observe the feminie beauties in attendance there. We have a waitiing list of converts.

Hmmm... Predestinarian Baptists... foot washing... unpaid ministers... what, no snake handling? Do they provide combat pay?
Where can we sign up? Would you kindly scrub my left big toe one more time?

Where is Fortemeyer when ya' need him? Just like him to start a heated discussion and run! (LOL!)

There's a Steve Martin quote which says... "Talking about music is the same as dancing about architecture"

Doers the same thing apply here ?

cheers, niteshift

PS - writtena a decent song today ? No ? How about you use your time more productively ?

Dave,

I have also considered being a navelist. They worship navel lint. Sounds intriguing to me.

Spending my time more productively? That would mean being a responsible human being, Nite. It's a calling I've always tried to avoid, at least when able, lol.

Stevie

Waal..I posted 2 songs today (now Yesterday)...&, since I'm suddenly beset with Insomnia, lemmie pen-further.

Both Traditional and Modern Christianity make such a To-do about Christ Dying for Our Sins. But..if Christ were God-Himself/God's Son..whichever...AND God always had the Power to make Him live-again..in the First Place... What's the Big Deal?

I get this Explanation that God always USED to require a Blood Sacrifice....(& I'm reminded that the Mayan Gods, too, required The Same...) Sorry, but That Explanation never cut it with me.

I'm far less-interested in a God created out of Tradition...and far more interested in one Based on Facts.

Fact: We Humans are only privy to 4 Dimensions. Current Physics Experts have predicted there are up to ll different Dimensions...to explain better What Matter is Made Up Of-&-From.

You want to seek God, get into those 7 Other Dimensions..besides the 4 you have access-to. He/She is in The Details.

As for Species..and Evolution..take a good look at the Simian/Ape Family..do some Comparative Anatomy..& see how Our Species developed our Big Butts...enabling us to walk erect..and our Thumb-Opposable-Forefinger Arrangement over the eons. See how our Cranial Area managed to NOT fuse early-on like most of the Other Apes did...so we could house ever-bigger Brains..to deal with Traditional AND Modern Christianity, when the time came.

As for Us to be made in "God's Image"..waal...that hits me as sorta Boastful-Wishful-Thinkin', on Man's Part. There ARE far more Admirable Species than Us on this planet..(Like MacCaws, which truly Mate-For-Life...for instance/They're FAR More-Colorful, AND..they can Fly from nearly the Get-Go!)

Stevie's argument that inanimate matter can't be converted to Living....waal...prettysure that if ya mix up the right combination of Amino Acids...& zap 'em a bit, with the right amount of electricity...ya get stuff that replicates-itself/that Chemical Parlor Trick is What Launched Life here on this Planet.

God's in The Details...and in the Geology. Just Dig Deep-Enough...the Answers are Always There. Got Doubts about Evolution? Look at your own little toes...they're disappearing, slowly...but-surely...Generation after Generation.

Same as our Tails. Why? Only God Knows....heh-heh!

Stevie it is all down to perception. Now as a kid I was taught magic tricks and illusions as my grandfather was a pretty good magician. So when other kids at a party believed in magic and mystical forces I knew how the trick was done. The same applies to beliefs. Whilst others totally and blindly belief in whatever they are told, required or expected to believe I look at it form a cynical and skeptical POV. I am dumbstruck as to how some people can be fooled by smoke mirrors and quaint out of date customs.
Now nobody knows for sure if there is a creator or not.....but one thing for sure nobody to date has come up with any explanation that holds any water or is anything other than pure conjecture or preposterous speculative thinking. On the other hand folk have evidence and facts to prove much of this conjecture as being deeply flawed. I tend to accept this evidence until proved different.
It is difficult to see where the word of God starts or the word of man begins. I rather suspect that all of what is accepted as faith and religion is indeed the word of man and solely based on his customs and vivid imagination. I have to laugh at some of the practices and quaint man made customs that have taken over religion. As as outsider I can only scratch my head and ponder as to the reasons why folk participate in such madness. It is also almost impossible even if I believed to pick a faith that does not have silly ideas.
As stated earlier I could not have anything to do with any religion or belief that does not treat women as equals. I certainly could not have anything to do with any religion that condones violence or shows contempt of other faiths or ideas to the point of going to war or wishing harm on them. That rules out every religion I have seen.
Whilst we may have our own ideas about how we came about or were created it is a step too far to organise ourselves and do silly things like pray, cross ourselves, wear silly costumes or participate in other silliness. I rather suspect that none of this would matter to God or would even be worth his notice. Now some people believe that Jesus is the son of God. I find it hard to accept. As Stan pointed out what is the point and if there is only one God as is Believed then how come another one exists alongside him. I also have concerns about the factual nature of the Bible as most of the events take some believing and have been proved to be impossible or unlikely to have happened given the laws of science and history we CAN prove and we know to be true. The story of Noah is physically impossible to have happened given the amount of species on earth and the size of the boat. It would be impossible to collect and then feed and care for such creatures in a large zoo with an army of volunteers let alone using a small family in a tiny boat. As a kid I was told stories about the tooth fairy and Santa Claus and other such made up imaginary things I also was told stories from the Bible. They are ALL about as beleivable and preposterous as each other.

Dancing about architecture is a good thing. Architecture protects us from the elements while music restores our souls... and provides backgrounds for the dancing. Have I written a good song lately? That is probably a real topic for debate. From my perspective, the answer is "probably" not... but I have six going on in various stages of completion at the moment. I'm closing in on my objective of 1000 before the final curtain.

I hope you understand that I am simply attempting to provide a little levity to a thread that's gone sour... like most posts do when religion or politics are dragged into the limelight.

The best place to find GOD is in the bible and through prayer.
All the while keeping an open mind. Like we do when we listen to mans' explanations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave,
I have heard you can't roller skate in a Buffalo Herd. What do you think?

You of course adopt the assumption that the Bible is reliable and that other faiths which do not accept the Bible or have an alternative belief to the Bible are wrong. That is a very BIG assumption that would promote much argument from the millions of people from non Christain faiths who believe otherwise.

I'm such a troublemaker...

Kurt you are going to be sentenced to wear a white outfit and be an Alter Boy! Ve Haf Spoken!

Man: WTF?
God: LOL!
Man: OMG!
God: z-z-z-z-z-z

Final Fact for The Day: Harry Houdini began his career with not-only Magic Tricks, but a fair share of "Contacting The Dead" through Medium Get-Togethers. After his Stardom-Breakthrough (When hired for Magic Tricks by a Circus) he spent a lot of his later years de-bunking claims by those who'd convinced folks they could contact The Afterlife.

This greatly-peeved Sir Alfred Conan Doyle, who was a firm believer in Spiritualism, besides penning Sherloc Holmes Stories. He had a particular-favorite Seance-Mistress, name forgotten this afternoon, but he was REALLY Sure she was the Real Thing.

Until Houdini caught her Levitating the Table..with her head..and making a bell strike..with her foot. AND offered her $5K to show some Skills-Off in her hometown, Boston, while he attended... (Was never taken up on the offer.)

Also offered a Big Cash Prize to anyone who could channel him Back at a Seance...& recite the Secret Words only his wife, Beth, was privy-to. She attended Ten-Years-in-a-Row..nobody ever delivered it. (She then divulged the Phrase she'd been given..which encoded the word "Believe"..in Lingo only a Fake Spiritualist would understand/Beth HAD been part of his Act, back-when..knew the Lingo.) Tho she ceased attending these Seances..held every Halloween, they've continued-on, ever since the late '30's...

Still NO Official Word from Harry...to this day. Draw Your Own Conclusions.... Me? I'm more a Believer in Reincarnation. (Google "Hypnotic Regression"...)

More Best Wishes/Big Hugs,
Stan

If you ever saw this documentary which i have on a cable channel a while back, u would seriously consider reincarnation. If we have a spirit, it probably can do anything it likes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuwtDawOIN8&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9b1ackgzuA&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLOvbLMDzPo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXBxyvlziPg&feature=relmfu

The more I try to understand the Bible, the less I understand the Bible.

Well, I thought I'd toss in my three cents ( used to be two, but you know, inflation .

I believe if you are good, you'll go to heaven, and it doesn't matter what you believe. The reason that it doesn't matter what you believe is that the universe is infinitely large, and you are infinitely small compared to it, and no merciful God would condemn to you eternal hell for your beliefs, when the odds are so great that you'll get it wrong, anyway, no matter what. In my view, to think otherwise is beyond absurd.

Just be a decent person and live your life, that's all one needs to do.

I'm always genuinely intrigued by statements like the first sentence. What constitutes good? Does telling a lie disqualify you? Does cheating on a lover? Does cheating on a test in school? Does making fun of someone? Does making fun of someone so much it causes them to commit suicide? Does drinking too much too often? Does drinking once and killing someone in a crash? Does not helping a fellow who asks you for 25 cents? If you're good you can get in. How bad do you have to be to to suffer no admission?

Also, on the second statement, where does your idea of a merciful God and hell come from? Most people arguably get those ideas from biblical theology. Which creates a problem because if the idea comes from the Bible, what do you do with verses that deal with the wrath of God? If most won't be bad enough to go to hell, why is there a hell at all? Then if there is no hell, why mention it at all?

If it were up to me, I'd let everyone with a sad story into heaven. I have to find a standard outside myself.

Thanks for Sharing, Bro-December... That's pretty well-documented there...I've heard & read enough other stories, I'm fairly-well convinced. As one of my Christian Chums once said, "Maybe Reincarnation is God's Way of giving ya a Second Chance at getting to Heaven"...

Best Wishes & a Big Guy-Hug,
Stan

Reincarnation?...... So..... having created a world where all living things need to eat each other to survive God wants to watch endless repeats.......I will now have to add sadist to my long list of things God has to answer for. Cause that is sick.

I watched the reincarnation program from the links and have also seen similar type claims before. Whilst these things are interesting there are many rational explanations for this kind of behaviour. Just like there are many rational explanations for UFOs, ghosts and other phenomena. Whilst reincarnation is one possibility there is much evidence to put it way down the list of probabilities.

Or as the Ancients believed, many many chances until you reach nirvana.

Maybe, we are only intelligent enough in modern times to be able to study it. Back then they went on word of mouth.

There have been actual studies that show this happens to many kids. You could call it some kind of growing process for the child, but it doesnt explain where the details of the former life come from.

In a world where nothing makes much sense, it's just as viable.

Not sure God is doing it at all. The same water that we drink today, could have been bathed in by some sabre toothed tiger tens of thousands of years ago.

Water recycles, and water is life. So why not life recycling.

And, there is no rational explanation for how we are even here in the first place. so rational explanations dont really solve anything.

Objectively speaking, there is hearsay evidence that somewhat leads to the conclusion folks reincarnate...that same evidence could also be subterfuge created by malevolent intelligence, which would bolster my faith. The nice thing about afterlife mysteries, as opposed to some others in life, is that we'll all find out eventually.

You could apply that logic to just about anything that is believed.

The resurrection of Christ is not exactly provable, but every christian religion is based on this story that he resurrected(and/or reincarnated.)

How could prove reincarnation 100% I dont know. Both people would have to be alive at the same time for us to see it.

That's the elegance of it, DRS, if all things were provable then faith would be redundant. But faith is how we developed manned flight, and it's how I will someday fly as well.

What if God were the intelligence that believed. What if he believed that he could survive the big bang and in doing so became all that was. What if he wanted to be not alone. What if he wanted to share existence after the next big bang?

I don't pretend to understand the nature of God, I'm just playing with his gift of imagination.

A human being is only our genes way of making more genes

A, Well,
There is the case of Bridy Murphey. He or she rememberd things from a past life and there was some proof of his rememberances. You can Google it to read more about it.


Then there was the Pysic Mystery of the Century, Published in the Reader's Digest many years ago. There were people working on Dergitibles in the 30's. Some of the men working on the project were killed. Several years later a Physic in England I think kept getting messages about the event and the men involved. The men were trying to contact their wives in america. Finally after some investigations the Physic managed to find the men's wives and relayed the message. The men were telling the wives that everything was Ok and they were on the other side. The way they proved the message was authentic was by secrets of the lighter than air craft that were only known to a few people at that time. The men that were killed revealed the secrets to the pysic who relayed them to the wives.

And of course there is the story of Johnny Horton who was into seances later in his life who had a preminition he was going to be killed on a certain day in an auto accident. He gave a message to Merle Kilgor that he would send back if he was able to. The message was only known to Kilgore. Some years later someone got the message and relayed it to Kilgor. True story. Now you all know Big Jim is going to come back as a Country Singer!

Google wants to be God. That is why it is so sucessfull-it sets high goals. When it finally achieves it's objective Big Jim will believe in God because Big Jim believes in GOogle!

Interesting, Mike, is that this very notion (about God not wanting to be alone) is integral to Islam.
One of the suras (verses) in the Koran states something along the lines of God saying "I was a hidden treasure, and desired to be known".

Just throwing that in for interest.

Donna

These both make it sound as if God was lonely. I like the concept of the Hindu "Dance of Shiva" better, which is more along the lines of God being an "experience junkie".

Midnite

I see Christianity as a rather large book club. I've read the book and I appreciated it, but not so much as to go to meetings once a week for the rest of my life to discuss it.

The more you keep up with Astronomy, the more aware you are that weekly, more Solar Systems are discovered that could well harbor "Life as We know it." (It's interesting that The Pope's already sorta Welcomed Extraterrestrial Life..to the Christian POV.)

The Mathematical Probability that there ARE other Life-Bearing Planets among the Galaxies gets Better-&-Better, the more we search...with the Improved Telescopes/Probes we can come up-with.

We'll, of course, have to study THEIR Religions..to put OURS into-perspective..when the day comes we CAN communicate with Other Worlds. (&..heh..then the Question arises...are THEY closer to "The Truth"..than We Are.)

I was speaking to a pal of mine last night. He has spent many years working in Kansas USA as a teacher but has recently returned to take up a job here. He told me that Creationism as a factual subject rather than as a religious belief was taught in a lot of schools there. In other words it was taught as being factual rather than just a religious opinion or belief. On the other hand the teaching of evolution is banned in some places. There were court cases to have it banned. He also told me that creationists absolutely refuse to accept any scientific evidence which casts any doubt on their beliefs to the point of it being silly. No matter how reliable the evidence is it is treated as being false and they go to great lengths to refute or ignore this evidence. I immediately thought of Stevie.......Some people never let facts get in the way of beliefs. Now Stevie if we were created then what was created was a far cry from what we are today...... millions of years of evolution has seen to that. Just take an X ray of yourself and you will see the remains of a tail that your ancestors once had. Take a look at any animal including humans and to see how they adapt in appearance to cope with changes in climate, habitat and foods. The world is changing slowly but surely and life forms evolve or die out. It is a slow process but a process none the less. The dinosaurs died out. They evolved into birds and reptiles.....unless of course the zillions of fossil evidence found everywhere are ALL fakes.
I too wash my feet daily....it is nice to have good personal hygiene standards...but why people do it as a form of worship is a mystery to me....unless of course God has a foot fetish.

Wow, I signed on and this post through me for a loop! I read the first few responses and thought here we go again, leave it alone, but I couldn't.

I feel such great conviction over the subject and I can't leave it alone, but I may watch when I can, and learn of you'alls convictions.

Everyone that knows me knows that me myself, have strong convictions since I was a child, and my faith in the Lord has not changed, though my christian views are ever changing related to new discoveries over the last centuries.

I am very agnostic in my views of the bible! Totally agnostic!

That between the Romans and early christians was all political, what was included in the bible and that that was not. Do your homework! There are many books that were not included in the bible for those political reasons.

The book of Enok was excluded, and he sits at the right hand of God with Abraham and , he didn't die nor was he resurrected, he was caught up.

Excluded books such as the book of Thomas, and the book of Mary, and others have so much to offer, yet the early christians only published Mathew, Mark, Luke, And John?????? Think about it!!

More than that, check into it for yourself!

In the end times, new things will surface that will change some of our views. I take it as prophesy and hope it effects us all in a positive way!

I generally don't post, other than a lyric, except this one hit home big time for me!

Jim,

I was going to bow out of further engagement on this thread as it's beating a dead horse but you so graciously addressed me in your post. Thanks you for being so thoughtful of me.

Have your pal send you the names of public schools that prohibit the teaching of evolution and I'll personally call them myself to find out if it's true. If it is I'll alert the media. That would indeed be big news over here and I'm sure they'd love to do a story on it. The fact is that evolution is taught everywhere I'm aware of but you are prohibited to teach Creationism along side of it as an alternate theory even, due to Federal and State mandates. This in contrast to the 1st Amendment to the constitution which states...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Thanks to a single atheist mother and her son in I think 1962 prayer has been prohibited in public schools by the same Supreme Court that starts it's sessions off with a prayer. Go figure that one out, even though the vast majority of Americans are against the law. By the way, her son, William Murry is a Christian evangelist now and has tried without success to get that decision repealed. One high school a few years ago not far from where I live warned the honor students that they could not make any mention of God in their graduation speeches. It created a public outcry from the majority who were against the rule. The Valedictorian intentionally sneezed during his address and the whole student body stood up and yelled "God bless you."

As far as evolution is concerned, the jury is out for me. I have no trouble believing that God may have chosen to begin life that way but I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me that evolution is factual rather than an unproven theory. There are too many holes in it as a theory and too many gaps in the fossil record but I have an open mind. There are Christians who do believe in evolution as the method God used to create life.

But where can it be shown that inorganic matter became living matter in either the past or that it is happening now? It's all speculation. By the way, I have stated that I do believe in evolution within species due to genetics. So I do at least have an open mind as opposed to you.

As far as dinosaurs is concerned, it seems that scientists now believe they died out due to a mile wide comet or asteroid hitting the Earth, causing an ice age. If that is true then they didn't evolve into anything. They just died out.

I'm glad you wash your feet too Jim. That was, incase you didn't get it, a joke.

Anyway, have your friend send you a list of the public schools he mentions that prohibit the teaching of evolution and I will definitely get in touch with them to see if it's true. If it is I will most definitely follow up on it with the media in any way I can. It would be an interesting story

That's a couple of times now that it has been mentioned that "inorganic matter" became "organic matter", and used as "ammunition".

This is a total red herring in context of evolution.

Everything really happens at molecular and sub molecular levels...atoms, electrons, neutrons, protons, quarks etc.

Organic material comprises mostly carbon, oxygen, hydrogen and nitrogen, and exactly how and with what it is assembled governs the final product.

Inorganic material is everything else.

Organic matter was once alive, and is currently alive, and can reproduce.

Rock does not become vegetation, however, rock can erode, become soluble in water, and could conceivably eventually form a minor part of another compound.

Vegetation will decompose, and can, after a long long time, become the basis for fossil fuels, and coal, and diamonds.

So although it is possible for the individual molecules to re combine, it is only through a process of decay and time that this could happen.

BUT it is not part of evolution.

The theory of evolution rests on natural selection, where those who best adapt to their environment survive to reproduce. Traits, determined by genetic makeup, and that help a species thrive, will get passed on.

It happens very slowly in long lived organisms, like man, but it happens faster in shorter lived animals (giving rise to breeding programs) and is highly accelerated in bacteria, which, as I have typed this, can be in its second or third generation. Why do you think we have bacteria resistant to penicillin? IF organic life is "static", should bacteria not simply always succumb to a dose of antibiotics? It does not because there is a small segment of its population that is resistant, and it can reproduce, and that which gives it resistance survives and becomes a norm in the population

Why do arctic hares have small ears vs their long eared cousins? (It is because of heat loss--large ears lose body heat) Why do eagles and other raptors have keen eyesight? These are "niche" adaptations. They allow these animals to survive and thrive in their particular environment.

But evolution is NOT one species turning into another. Canines cannot become felines. But there is certainly a variation within species that can be explained by evolution and adaptation to a particular animal's environment and survival needs.

And as far as dinosaurs and other pre historic animals goes, the earth is 13.5 or so billion year old, there have been several "epochs and periods" where particular flora and fauna developed, flourished, and died out. There is sufficient scientific evidence to support this larger picture.

Does this version of events contradict the Bible, and certain religious beliefs? Yes, without a doubt. Does this contradiction pose a problem to those who believe literally in the Bible? Yes, without a doubt.

But does all this mean there is no God?

Nothing I have experienced or seen in this world, or understand about our world, our universe and its history can possibly lead to such a conclusion.

Believing in evolution as a force of nature is not incompatible with a belief in the existence of God.

Ahhhh another Big Jim fact

In 1987, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that requiring the teaching of creationism, or forbidding the teaching of evolution, violates the separation of church and state. The court struck down a Louisiana law that banned teaching evolution unless accompanied by instruction in creationism.

This ruling applies to all states and Public schools.

John,

You are correct. I should have used another word than organic/inorganic. I should have stuck to non-living matter/living organisms or something of the sort. Point is there is no observable evidence that non-living matter became a living organism whether on the molecular level or any other. If it supposedly happened in the distant past we weren't around to observe it and it can't be duplicated in a lab. And that is part of evolution, the very beginning of the theory. But this never was about evolution but the existance of a creator in the back and forth between Jim and me. It was merely a distraction.

Thanks for correcting me where I erred. But as you say, it has nothing to do with whether or not there is a creator. As I said, I was going to bow out of this discussion as Jim and I will never come to the same conclusion. But he did insert me into his post so I felt compelled to answer. There are more appropriate things to discuss on this website concerning music. I'll ignore any further discussion on the subject here so as not to bore people. Others may do or say what they want. We've beaten this horse to death.

Cheers,

Stevie

Stevie, good work. I disagree with one point. There is never anything more appropriate to discuss than God.

Belief is a funny thing. Lots of folks believe things about folks who believe things and use those things as argument to make believing things seem wrong. Unbelievable!

And I was only going to post once and leave it at that Stevie. But I too got sucked in by my own emotion and need to state what I believe.