Originally Posted by Fdemetrio
Originally Posted by Michael Zaneski
Originally Posted by Mark Kaufman
I honestly think Bernie is just one lucky old hippie poet with a knack for cool, vivid phrases, scenes and imagery. Undiscovered, his lyrics would fill these boards and occasionally get picked up by a composer—but they wouldn't be considered the great songs they are, not at all, no way, nope. A great lyric without music is usually just an okay poem. Elton could take anything, if it grabbed him, and find a way to make it fit in an incredibly unique fashion. I'll bet he really knew how to pack anything into a suitcase. The heavy lifting is all in the compositions, nearly every time. I don't believe Bernie ever had any idea how it would all turn out musically, he just had to creatively express himself freely and basically without rules, then wait for the wizard to animate them majestically. Just imagine some of those lyrics without the music. They would absolutely baffle most composers, but Elton is a stone genius that way. Never more than about 20 minutes, and he finds it—every time! Otherwise he gets bored and gives up.


I totally agree, and find myself wincing to many of BT's lines and he would probably get some negative comments here, in a parallel universe, with "Your Song" for instance, over lines like, "So excuse me forgetting/But these things, I do /You see, I've forgotten /If they're green or they're blue /Anyway, the thing is, what I really mean /Yours are the sweetest eyes I've ever seen" --which just seems like a lotta sayin' very little, to me.

I think it's a fallacy to think that just because he's very successful at what he did that he didn't have the leeway to write some iffy stuff..I think as listeners and armchair critics, there's a bit of revising our personal feelings on these matters (gradually over-the-years) based on overall public acceptance. In other words, we, in THIS universe, think "Your Song" is great. In a parallel universe where Bernie was just another JPF member?

I am probably a bigger fan of the guy who opened for EJ in that first Troubadour/Los Angeles gig, David Ackles, but I love those first several records, though I could probably live happily without ever hearing Bennie and the Jets or Crocodile Rock ever again.

EJ was a manic consumer of other people's music. I worked for the record store chain Tower Records for over two decades, and stories were told of how in the 70s/80s, the Sunset Blvd. store in Hollywood would open up early every Tuesday morning (new release day) and he'd literally buy EVERY new release that came out. That's, to me, part of the formula for being really good at something: have a genuine interest, dare I say passion, for that thing! SO many songwriters I know don't listen to much music, except for maybe a small, old swath of songs they grew up with. Some that I know listen to a LOT of varied and new stuff. Those in the latter category tend to write better songs, IMHO.

Mike


Mike, well, you could put the greatest lyric or song ever written on this forum, and it would still get alot of negative critiques, because of star power. If you're not a star, somehow you're not as viable, sometimes its the other way around too. So, I dont know if its overinflating a known commodity or underinflating an unknown one, but I have seen some writers on this forum get MORE praise, and as we saw with the Clapton thread, somehow Clapton sucks, but people here dont. Other times somebody with something brilliant may not even get a reply.

Most of the time its the music anyway, we dont have many Elton Johns in the world, let alone ones who demo songs and place them on forums.

In my opinion, "Anyway, the thing is, what I really mean" is fantastic writing, because it makes the singer accessible. He's "simply stating" that he has trouble "simply stating" something...not the writer, but the character. Which fits with the humble and innocent tone of the lyric. It's conversational and brings the person in the song alive, but thats just my opinion.

The Beatles wrote plenty of IFFY stuff too.


Hi FD,

I get the meta nature of "Your Song" and how it is showing, not telling, a shy person's fumbling attempt at giving a really nice present to someone. I just think it goes on way too long and is too "roses are red, violets are blue" in some spots for me, even taking in the song's meta-nature.

But I generally agree with what you are saying here, otherwise.

Mike

Fate doesn't hang on a wrong or right choice
Fortune depends on the tone of your voice

-The Divine Comedy (Neil Hannon)
from the song "Songs of Love"
from the album "Casanova" (1996)