nashvillecat wrote .......................................

"We can beat them but not unless we are as good as they are. That's why I think we need less "attaboy" comments and more HONEST CRITICISM.

....... exactly !

Lyric forums are great for building confidence. But unless we are honest with our thoughts of a particular lyric, we are building confidence only with brief praise. We need to work on our weaknesses. And they need to be pointed out to us so we can work on them.

We should feel at ease telling a fellow writer that their current draft is "a train wreck", as long we can explain why.

What's working should be pointed out as well, and why it's working.

Giving honest in-depth critiques can help the writer doing the critique as much as the writer receiving the critique. We draw on all our knowledge of the crafting of a lyric when we give an in-depth critique. It's tough to look at our own work in the same way, especially while we still have weaknesses to work on.

Quality critiques make a quality forum.
And draws/forms quality writers.

As far as counting reply to post ratio, is concerned, it's a good idea to crit 3 or 4 for every lyric we post. But I'd say looking for lyrics that need the most revision should be the ones we take the most time to critique. Most new writers don't know how to critique in-depth, so we should cut them some slack for the first few months.

Anyhow, part of the thread topic is how we might encourage folks to visit both forums if we have 2. Muses Muse and JPF are different animals as far as the types of lyrics posted in general. But we have members at JPF that also post at Muses Muse as well. And vice versa. Then, we have those who post on only one or the other. Both are nice sites, no question.

But, on a one forum site, the mythical clique forms. The Indie/Alternative writers "group", and the commercial writers do as well. Now, there are exceptions; writers who write both commercial and indie lyrics interact with both types of writers.

The numbered lyric forum is, as said, a bad idea as far as new members. They are eager, and Lyrics 1 is where they are likely to post, which means less reads. One forum would solve that.

But, imo two specically named and described lyric forums would boost membership and the quality of critiques.

Commercial Lyric Forum: post your commercial lyric here for feedback on craftsmanship and hit potential.

Indie/Alternative Lyric Forum: post your noncomm lyrics here for feedback from fellow writers. Anything goes here. Novelty, comedy, folk, blues, protest, anti-folk, new age, world beat, rock, etc.

Some commercial writers won't spend much time helping an alt rock writer, and vice versa. Mixing them on one forum will never change that.
And I can't see why those who write both noncomm and commercial lyrics would not use both forums. I'm on dial-up and it's not a problem jumping around the site.

jmo

Either way, lot's of valid suggestions from everyone and when the dust settles we'll all still be here. The cowboys will be trying to rope that star and the singer-sonwriter will be trying to write the one that's never been written before. [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by TonyW (edited 11-29-2006).]