JPF Home Page Forums Lyric and MP3 Feedback Lyric Feedback Forum 3 Upgrading Soon: Feedback?

Hi Brian,

I wanted to take some time to really weigh my thoughts before I responded to this thread. Being one of the few who were around just about from the start of this forum, I have seen a lot of changes, and a great deal of evolution here...some positive, some not so positive. My reflections are merely what I feel I have observed over the past 8 years here.

First of all, thank you from the bottom of my heart for all you do for JPF and for those of us who love this place. You know a lot of the background of why I feel so strongly about this place so I won't go into detail on it here. I would rather focus on the questions you posed for us to respond to.

The circle changes all the time. We have had a lot of really fine writers who have posted here during that time. Most of them came here for assistance with fine tooth combing their writing. Some were total novices but folks who took their writing seriously. As some of them improved their writing skills and moved on to the next level where they were getting material signed, their agents have told them to not post their songs publicly (as has been mentioned). Blake Hill is one example of that. A number of other writers have had circumstances happen in their lives where songwriting had to take a back seat. Tink, Judy Hollier, Pam Hurley, Rachel Kerr have all fallen prey to that situation. Some of them reappear briefly from time to time, but these were folks who posted a LOT on a regular basis. Graham Henderson is now an administrator at SongRamp...so he isn't posting here much anymore either. Dawg passed away. When you talk about why the lyric forums are losing steam, I think this is one of the reasons. A lot of those who spent the most time here in the past are not posting here anymore or only irregularly.

This place really does become a community. When you share your innermost thoughts like you do in writing lyrics, it is bound to happen that you like the way a certain writer writes/thinks...and you tend to become friends if you hang around long enough. Some of us even liked each other enough to want to meet in real time...and Pineyfest was born. We STILL like each other...some..LOL even moreso now. If that means we are a clique...so be it. I think the fact that the folks who ARE here tend to keep coming back...at least for long periods of time attests to the fact that the doors here are open to anyone who chooses to be here and play nice. If someone comes here with an attitude....they probably won't stay long...and yep...they might not feel comfy here. We can't and should not be expected to take responsibility for anyone's actions or decisions but our own. We can choose to hang out...or not. If someone chooses to leave...that is their choice.

Taking a look at the names posting here now...I don't think there are more than a handful of us who have been posting here for more than a couple of years. This IS a good place with good people. I think the fact that when the challenge was posted here to help raise money to upgrade the boards, a huge percentage of the money that was sent to you, Brian came from the folks here on Lyric Three. We believe in this place and want to see it keep going. I could be wrong, but I don't think that same kind of commitment happens on the other boards. The other forums are kept alive based on the sheer numbers of posters. Here, it is a different story. The lyric forums are based on a lot of posts by a more limited number of VERY dedicated individuals. If we are only worried about numbers here...then even a psycho has value in that some of us would go check to see what weirdness was being perpetrated "over there" on a regular basis! If, on the other hand, we are more concerned with people getting their needs met for high quality insights on their song lyrics, then that is a totally different issue.

A lot of the regulars who used to be the life blood of this place are no longer around and I don't believe we are seeing the same level of time being devoted to in-depth commentary here. I am NOT talking about the "oh I like this" or "this isn't my cuppa tea" type of critiques...but rather the caliber of insights where folks really feel as though they are getting HELP with improving their overall writing skills. In order to do that kind of critique, you actually have to know something about songwriting. To be quite honest, I see a lot of opinions here but I don't see many critiques that are based on much more than that. The camaraderie and chit chat is great for establishing trust in each other but doesn't do much for helping us write better song lyrics. If I sense that someone is serious about wanting their songs to become commercial, I will do everything I can to help them...but with all the things I have going on in my own life at the moment, I no longer have the time I used to have to spend nursing lyrics for folks who don't take it seriously. Then again, some folks don't want the in-depth critiques...and that is fine. This board is here for everyone...not just me...but I'm just saying that I cannot afford to spend an hour on a critique that I hope might help really help somebody only to find out that they only wanted some kudos and had no intention of changing anything anyway. LOL

Personally, I am at a point where I am my own harshest critic and I know when I need help with a certain line or phrase. I no longer post all my stuff here because I don't have the time to do all the responding that I feel I need to do when people offer their ideas. I send my stuff to a few select folks to check over because I know they will give me the sharp knife treatment and not just tell me what they think I want to hear. I also have found a circle of pros here in Nashville who will review my material for its commercial potential. I need that right now because "close" isn't good enough anymore.

I don't have a problem with merging back into one board. I don't think that much will change. I started off on the first forum and only moved to this one at your request, Brian when things started going kafloey on the earlier ones. By and large folks will go wherever the "action" is...and at the moment, it is here on Three.

I do not like the idea of anonymous posting nor anonymous ratings. I think that having to put your name out there tends to keep folks a bit more civil. There would be just too much opportunity for abuse in a system like that. It also allows the writer the opportunity to get some clarification regarding WHY. I don't much care if someone likes or dislikes a song...what I DO care about is why...and how can I fix it. There would be no option for that...so how can learning occur? That would defeat the purpose.

Nor do I like the idea of splintering off folks for "inspirational" or any other genre-specific options. Keeping us all in one place ensures that the most eyes have the opportunity to see the most diverse lyrics. We can always pick and choose which ones to respond to. Shayne can attest to how difficult it is to keep a lyric forum alive when it is focused on just one kind of lyric. I think the mix keeps the place healthy. Also...time is our most precious commodity. For those of us who still have to work to support our songwriting addiction....we don't have the luxury of spending a lot of our limited time doing 'the board thing'. I generally come to Lyric Three on a daily basis...sometimes more than once a day but will sometimes check out the other boards, especially if someone else says there is something I need to read or check out.

As for Cat's idea of the place to dissect hit songs...JPF Mentors Pat and Pete Luboff do a Monday evening session that does that specific thing. You might consider contacting them. If you'd like their email address, please let me know.

I am not in favor of "rules" but there are some general guidelines that would definitely help new posters get the most from their experience here. It seems to fall to one of us old timers to have to pass along the info once the new poster has already made the mistake of posting their first dozen lyrics in one day. That puts them on the defensive immediately....like why wasn't that info somewhere I could see it? If it was posted as "recommendations for getting the most from your lyrical postings", who would be offended by that? You can even include a statement that these are NOT RULES to keep the most ardent among us from trying to beat a newbie (or anyone else) over the head with them. Since I write a lot of training manuals, I'd even volunteer to develop a set of guidelines (and post them here for review of course. LOL) if you are willing to consider that option.

One last thing I wanted to mention is that when I first discovered JPF, it seemed as though the organization was focused pretty much on songs and songwriting, so it felt like home to me. However, after reading an interview in which you indicated that the focus of JPF has now shifted to performers and artists (many of whom do not write their own material), it feels like that shift has pretty much relegated us songWRITERS to second class citizens. While I may be the only one to admit openly to feeling that...I know there are a lot more who think it but won't say it.

I hope these observations and comments are of some value as feedback for you, Brian. You know I will continue to be one of the most ardent supporters of JPF.

Sincerely,
Bobbie