Mike..not Sub...Mr Dunbar...ROULETTE.. in my long gone youth i thought the game was invented for me..i have tried every system..dunno the "martingale" by name but i guess it has to do with "sections" of the wheel..which is a big fav with system players...nonetheless Bill(we could make this into a roulette thread l.o.l)hoping the dealer keeps banging the ball around in the same section or whatever...GREAT!..if your on...the hard part Bill is the walking away,or vice versa...hitting the wheel at the wrong time and being under the collar from the word go..and chasing your losses,again, when do you walk away..."oh she must hit my section" so on and so forth..then when you do walk away you are scratching your nether regions...pratted!!Being impulsive is in the gamblers physcic...unfortunately learning discipline is the hardest part,anyway i have given up roulette many moons ago..texas hold em is a much easier form of relaxation and a totally different form of skill..it is not actually based on the hand you are holding...it is based on what the other guy "thinks" you are holding...that is the secret of the game..as for golf, well i always thought of it as a waste of a good walk!...you may wonder what texas hold em and songwriting have in common...discipline and patience..knowing when to walk away,and return later...and knowing that your first write will be a re-write and another re-write,and probably another,but have the patience to wait for the correct lyrical connection to appear,and when it does,knowing how to recognise it...THAT to me as a writer is the very bottom line,the lowest musical common denominator if you like...when you KNOW you have it right..and you would be very hard pushed to make it better...Bill in my honest humble opinion..That is something that CANNOT be taught....if any songwriting guru can unbottle that little genie,then next to the keys of the gates of heaven,they have knocked it off......Terry...