Originally Posted by John Voorpostel
01
and Marty the phrase "judge not until you have walked a mile in my shoes" has been going through my mind.
to think an important reason you own an gun and defend ownership is to protect your own right to defend yourself against "all the crazies" out there
then to also find out Texas is home to some of the largest mass shootings over time is eye opening. ...and second most of all the states...with California in the lead I fully see your point of view on this and let us agree any further dialogue between us will keep all that in mind

02
do understand that as the self labelled 800LB gorilla when I raise the issue and have an opinion, it is not entirely uninformed and not personally directed at "Marty is wrong" but at the 800 LB gorilla
My lens is as a Canadian whose geography, history, culture and experiences and viewpoints are not yours. We have values and opinions based on our shared history as Canadians.

03
You have actually been challenging JAPOV on the Bible and the existance of what I see as the One Shared God of Abraham....asking for proof of JAPOV's beliefs.... and those of Couch and Everett and others.

04
You are a self declared atheist if I understand this correctly. I mentioned Lucretius. Is his life occupying space in your head?

01A
I appreciate that John. Up until I was about 40, I wanted nothing to do with guns. Had no desire to deal with them, have them on my person or talk about them. I'm still uneasy around "gun nutz." Something is mis-wired in the breed. Some work related issues (homebuilding) changed that. At first I got into martial arts. After 6 years of that it wasn't protection enough in an increasingly violent city and I decided that guns for protection was a rational choice. I now have several as the technology has evolved to the the threat.

02A
I know you are Canadian. I am not. I know nothing about your country and have no desire to tell anyone up there how to run it. I'm touchy when I see foreign nationals deciding what is best for me and mine. Can't help it.

03A
I was born and raised on Birmingham, Alabama. I have been non-religious since birth and agnostic since college. I have had more Christians run at me as a project that I can recall. Including my first wife 40+ years ago. I know full well that there is no secular proof of Christian faith beyond an appeal to the bible itself which has an odd evolution if you look into it. I ask questions not because I expect to receive proof, but because it helps me understand the world better to see what is presented as the personal foundation for someone's faith. The most clarity that I have seen here is Steve. Paraphrasing him...he does it because he does it. He offers neither iron clad proof or an apology for not offering iron clad proof. He leads with a soft edge which makes him easy to be next to and inclines me to be sympathetic and respectful to his life-view. For me, Steve was the gem to be found in the "general discussion" section regarding the Christian faith. Being a convert is not in my future. BUT IF, that ever changed, I would go to Steve for guidance.

04A
Full disclosure. I've seen Lucretius name beginning with a classics course at UT, 1000 years ago, but I dont know anything about him. I am not atheist. I am agnostic. I don't suggest any notion whatsoever as to what exists beyond what is known about this life. I PERSONALLY, regard that as presumptive for a mortal. I regard that deciding that there is absolutely no God as even more presumptive for an earthling. I, as an agnostic simply dunno. I hope to find out but am fully accepting that I may die and just be over and done.....never finding out what lays beyond. Even so, I will be very grateful for the priviledge to have been alive and self aware for the time given me...by whatever.

And there you have everything that I know. Enjoyable discussion. Thank you.
Marty

https://soundcloud.com/sunset-poet-of-texas