JPF Home Page Forums General Messages General Message Forum Why don't Lyricists learn an Instrument?

That's it in a nutshell, Nige. Thank you for putting it so simply.
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Colm, this becomes more and more intriguing.

Colm said: It seems to me from your comments that you exhibit the view that, notwithstanding the fact that musicians have gone to the trouble and time to learn to read, write and play music, that while they might be able to write words they are of course no match for 'professional lyricists?

No. I don’t think this at all, nor did I say it. Many musicians write lyrics very well indeed, just as many write them poorly. This is why they come to forums like JPF, Muse, and elsewhere to ask for constructive critique and suggestions.
Sometimes they contact lyricists privately for advice and feedback, and even with a request for a complete lyric to be written to the music. This has been my own frequent experience.

Lyricists also regularly post their works for honest critique, or will get in touch by PM with other lyricists for input.

Colm said: Lyrics posted on the Lyrics Forums - without an associated MP3 or some indication of the actual musical beat or rhythm of the intended melody are simply inaccessible to criticism regarding meter! Period!

I disagree entirely (though without boldface and exclamation marks ). (See also Nigel’s comment above.)

Lyricists generally post without having an intended melody. They first want to have the lyric content and structure in place before doing their own music or passing it on to a composer. Critiques can help towards a lyric developing a decent internal structure and metered flow, which will lend itself to the eventual music.

Occasionally a lyric is posted with music (or the author will state that music for it already exists), and the suggested lyrical changes follow accordingly. These have largely to do with word choice. It sometimes happens as well that a lyricist will decide to alter the melody because he/she prefers certain changes that have been suggested would work better if the metering were changed. There are many, many factors.

I suspect the reason people don’t ask whether the song/melody will be played in 4/4, 6/8, or 3/4 time is because
a) a lyric posted in the Lyrics forum generally isn’t expected to have music at that point, and
b) if it does have music, it’s the author’s call to inform potential reviewers so that changes they suggest won’t alter the structure of the lyric.

Really, it’s no big deal.

Colm said: In my view Brian should address your comments regarding your belief regarding the questionable ability of skilled and trained musicians to write lyrics with equal detain (sic) as he appears to have addressed my innocent suggestion, aimed at including the quality and experience of collaborations between people who like to write words and people that like to write music!

My implication was that not all lyrics written by musicians are good. By the same token, not all music created by skilled and trained lyricists is good. Nor are all lyrics written by lyricists good, nor is all music written by musicians good. This becomes awfully circular.

Colm said: Most (Not All) of the posters on this thread seem to think (for whatever reason) that I am talking about or in some way demeaning their ability (good or otherwise) to write lyrics. I AM NOT. I never did! I never said that!

The thought never crossed my mind. I thought you were asking “Why don’t lyricists learn an instrument!” and then later “What, if anything, is the difference between pure lyrics and the words of a song?” I answered both questions honestly and as simply as I could (given that the second question was an odd one to interpret).

Colm said: Now maybe Donna that's because (as you believe) the question is irrelevant - the lyrics should stand up on their own! Or maybe it's because they don't understand the relevance of the question?

I don’t believe this at all. Nor did I say anything like it.
As to lyrics standing on their own, I think a decent lyric – which is what lyricists/songwriters here are trying to achieve - should contain the kind of elements (content/originality/structure/meter, etc.) that – together with the music - will transform it into – for them and perhaps for others - a pleasing song.

Colm said: My issue remains the way pure lyricists comment on and suggest corrections to the 'words of songs already written!

I responded above to this. I presume that if a lyricist or songwriter posts to a forum, he/she is asking that suggestions be made with a view to (possible) changes to the lyric. Often a word change or adjustment to the order of lines will make a big difference to the lyric’s impact.

Colm said. It's a critical issue for JPK's and therefore argued about here in the hope of reaching a genuine consensus which suits all members.

It’s certainly not a critical or any kind of issue for me.

Colm said: P.S. Special thanks to Donna for sticking to her guns!

And thanks to Colm for the opportunity to express an opinion.

Donna

PS: Now I'm going to make a cup of tea, work on revising a lyric (thanks to excellent feedback given in the Lyrics forum), and then - along with a vocal melody - send it for music to a wonderful musician/collaborator (who doesn't write lyrics himself). The best of both worlds!